Are Atheists “good” people?

[Charlemagne_II]

Laurent

So , you’re saying when you’re an atheist , you’re blind ??

Those are your words, not mine.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Ok , I change that sentence into:

So , you’re saying when you’re an atheist , you’re not right ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), september 19, 2008

 

[Jack_245814]

Some are, some aren’t, most are inbetween.

Simple as that

 

[Charlemagne_II]

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

I don’t see how he could have made it any plainer.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
So, what does our living in the present have to do with your not believing in a reality which you choose not to believe in?

Good interesting question
The past , present & future !!
Even I do believe in the past & future ,
you’ll never what the future will bring !!

Religion , why should I believe in this subject ??

Whether you see it or not, you DO have a religion, because “religion” is simply the set of beliefs that you base your actions on.

If your set of beliefs are ad hoc, which means just a random collection picked because they “make you feel good”, then they are likely to be rather “rough” and prone to “rip up” society in their application.

Most people who have “ad hoc” belief systems (their religion) are good people, but they are nearly completely unaware of the damage they do to the society they are embedded in.

The reason to have a coherent religion (the best of which is Catholicism, of course) is because the “rough edges” have been honed off, through practice for eons and tend to do less damage to society.

The Church (Catholic) is also the best choice, obviously, because it is composed of information directly from God given in the singular reliable way to mankind, but that’s just a “nice reason” to accept it over others, in my opinion, as the BEST reason is because it actually is effective in doing what it says it does.

Anyway , I live now , not tomorrow ,
just as anyone else , if we knew the future ,
The question would be , why do we live ??

We live because we are here to learn the consequences of sin.

That is why the creation was made “fallen” by God. As our classroom. Before the fall (that whole “Adam and Eve” thing) creation was created as a place for us, and the angels of course, to be happy.

Then the angels sinned, and the heavens “fell”, and since the angels can’t “learn” (per se) their “fallen heaven” was a place for them to experience the consequences of sin. They essentially “invented” suffering. Since angels can’t change their minds, their suffering, or happiness, is eternal.

We were created as beings allowed to change our minds. That’s why were given “physicality”, which the angels don’t have. This allows us to make revocable decisions. Thus, we can suffer but request to be relieved of our suffering, and have that request granted.

So, why do we live? We live to learn how to request relief for our suffering.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

2 Words + ALL variants I never use !! Why ??
I don’t believe in those !!
I don’t believe in their existence !!
Believers will use those words millions & more times !!
Would their existence be proven , fine ,
even then I will never accept & follow them !!
(Not now or in the future !!)
I would call it pure sadists (strong words) !!

Angry & anger ?? No !! Realism , yes !!

What two words are you talking about, that you will never use?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

To CatsAndDogs:
“don’t rely on our mindreading skills, as mine are REALLY bad these days, due to various atmospheric considerations.”

…could it be because its happens to be raining…CATS AND DOGS???

Hmmmmm… I hadn’t thought of that!

<chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, snork, snork!>

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Whether you see it or not, you DO have a religion, because “religion” is simply the set of beliefs that you base your actions on.

I believe in myself and still
I will try to help others where- & whenever I can !!!
This has nothing to do with religion & “religion” !!
I have faith in myself !!

If your set of beliefs are ad hoc, which means just a random collection picked because they “make you feel good”, then they are likely to be rather “rough” and prone to “rip up” society in their application.

That’s what I think of religion !!
A couple of humans made it all up !!

Most people who have “ad hoc” belief systems (their religion) are good people, but they are nearly completely unaware of the damage they do to the society they are embedded in.

You actually are saying , it would be better to
follow our way (the thruth) to have a peaceful life !! (??)

The reason to have a coherent religion (the best of which is Catholicism, of course) is because the “rough edges” have been honed off, through practice for eons and tend to do less damage to society.

The Church (Catholic) is also the best choice, obviously, because it is composed of information directly from God given in the singular reliable way to mankind, but that’s just a “nice reason” to accept it over others, in my opinion, as the BEST reason is because it actually is effective in doing what it says it does.

why are there so many religions ,
they all claim to be the only/right one !?!?

We live because we are here to learn the consequences of sin.

That is why the creation was made “fallen” by God. As our classroom. Before the fall (that whole “Adam and Eve” thing) creation was created as a place for us, and the angels of course, to be happy.

Then the angels sinned, and the heavens “fell”, and since the angels can’t “learn” (per se) their “fallen heaven” was a place for them to experience the consequences of sin. They essentially “invented” suffering. Since angels can’t change their minds, their suffering, or happiness, is eternal.

We were created as beings allowed to change our minds. That’s why were given “physicality”, which the angels don’t have. This allows us to make revocable decisions. Thus, we can suffer but request to be relieved of our suffering, and have that request granted.

For me this is nothing more than a bad fairy tale !!

◘We live because we are here to learn the consequences of sin.

◘So, why do we live? We live to learn how to request relief for our suffering.

I see/read 2 different things ??

Suffering ?? If you start life with suffering ,
what’s than the purpose of life ?? Healing the wounds ?? What wounds ??

Or is life suffering ?? That’s very odd , even weird !!

What two words are you talking about, that you will never use?

Cryptic: “father” & “son”

Simply , I don’t & won’t believe in it !!
Besides , it’s all mankinds’ creation !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), september 20, 2008

 

[ABello]

To Charlemagne II:

“If you don’t get it this time, I won’t bother to explain it again. O.K.?”

Either I get it and don’t agree with you, or you’re right, and I truly don’t understand you. You don’t have to explain it again if don’t want to.

“Then I suppose that when these same people revert back to Catholicism before they die, as many do, you would have to conclude that they had seen the logical mistake of equating God with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.”

Sigh Now it’s YOU who really doesn’t get it. You’ve read my quote out of context and completely missed the point, which is that when I take my own thoughts and write them like they’re fact, only confusion and ridiculousness arises. I could have said anything, including:

“The reason why so many Catholics convert to atheism ON THEIR DEATHBED is that it is purely natural that as one matures intellectually, logic takes over and God suffers the same fate as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.”

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Whether you see it or not, you DO have a religion, because “religion” is simply the set of beliefs that you base your actions on.

I believe in myself and still
I will try to help others where- & whenever I can !!!
This has nothing to do with religion & “religion” !!
I have faith in myself !!

That’s nice, but why is what you called “good” and “helpful”?

Quote:
If your set of beliefs are ad hoc, which means just a random collection picked because they “make you feel good”, then they are likely to be rather “rough” and prone to “rip up” society in their application.

That’s what I think of religion !!
A couple of humans made it all up !!

Do you do things because you think they are good to do?

The reason you think they are good is because you believe they are good to do. All those beliefs of yours are your religion. What you do, you do because it’s good to do because your religion (your beliefs) tell you they are good to do.

Many people agree that some particular things are good to do. All those who agree to those things as being good to do share in that religion, whether they know (or care about) it or not.

Quote:
Most people who have “ad hoc” belief systems (their religion) are good people, but they are nearly completely unaware of the damage they do to the society they are embedded in.

You actually are saying , it would be better to
follow our way (the thruth) to have a peaceful life !! (??)

It would be better to follow the truth because the truth tends to not cause “unnecessary friction” with reality.

To do what is right (the truth) in a society that is highly disordered is NOT the path to “a peaceful life”, but it is the path of promoting good over evil, which is why we’re here.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
The reason to have a coherent religion (the best of which is Catholicism, of course) is because the “rough edges” have been honed off, through practice for eons and tend to do less damage to society.

The Church (Catholic) is also the best choice, obviously, because it is composed of information directly from God given in the singular reliable way to mankind, but that’s just a “nice reason” to accept it over others, in my opinion, as the BEST reason is because it actually is effective in doing what it says it does.

why are there so many religions ,
they all claim to be the only/right one !?!?

There are so many religions because people are stubborn.

Most religions DON’T claim to be “the one true religion”, by the way. The vast majority claim to be “OUR way of being good”, not “THE way of being good”.

Those that DO claim to be “the one true religion” need to demonstrate that by internal coherency, and external efficacy. In other words, they need to not contradict themselves and they need to show that they “work” toward what they say they are working toward.

Since it’s SO easy to simply “disregard” a religion’s qualifications as I just stated them, it’s a simple matter to just choose nearly ANY religion as being “the best one for me”, instead of the one best suited for all humankind.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
We live because we are here to learn the consequences of sin.

That is why the creation was made “fallen” by God. As our classroom. Before the fall (that whole “Adam and Eve” thing) creation was created as a place for us, and the angels of course, to be happy.

Then the angels sinned, and the heavens “fell”, and since the angels can’t “learn” (per se) their “fallen heaven” was a place for them to experience the consequences of sin. They essentially “invented” suffering. Since angels can’t change their minds, their suffering, or happiness, is eternal.

We were created as beings allowed to change our minds. That’s why were given “physicality”, which the angels don’t have. This allows us to make revocable decisions. Thus, we can suffer but request to be relieved of our suffering, and have that request granted.

For me this is nothing more than a bad fairy tale !!

Do “fairy tales” convey truths?

Most people would say they do. Just like any good fiction, they tell us truths about what it means to to be human.

So, is it the fact that they simply are “fairy tales”, or that those “fairy tales” don’t tell anything useful, the reason you don’t like those “fairy tales”?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
◘We live because we are here to learn the consequences of sin.

◘So, why do we live? We live to learn how to request relief for our suffering.

I see/read 2 different things ??

Suffering ?? If you start life with suffering ,
what’s than the purpose of life ?? Healing the wounds ?? What wounds ??

Or is life suffering ?? That’s very odd , even weird !!

When we learn the consequences of sin, which is suffering, we learn how to request relief for that suffering.

Life brings us suffering. How we deal with that suffering is what we need to get better at during our life.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
What two words are you talking about, that you will never use?

Cryptic: “father” & “son”

Simply , I don’t & won’t believe in it !!
Besides , it’s all mankinds’ creation !!

You “don’t and won’t” believe in what?

Do you really think that “all mankind” created creation?

 

[Laurent_LUG]

That’s nice, but why is what you called “good” and “helpful”?

Good: Not cheating , being honest
Being helpful can be good as long you don’t mess up !!

Some will call my help useless ,
while others appreciate my help !!
Or some will call me a useless piece of beep !!
For such scum I will never (be) good helpful ,
I’ll even refuse in any further life !!

Do you do things because you think they are good to do?

The reason you think they are good is because you believe they are good to do. All those beliefs of yours are your religion. What you do, you do because it’s good to do because your religion (your beliefs) tell you they are good to do.

Many people agree that some particular things are good to do. All those who agree to those things as being good to do share in that religion, whether they know (or care about) it or not.

No religion , but faith in myself !!

It would be better to follow the truth because the truth tends to not cause “unnecessary friction” with reality.

To do what is right (the truth) in a society that is highly disordered is NOT the path to “a peaceful life”, but it is the path of promoting good over evil, which is why we’re here.

Look , there’s only one thruth , and that’s the truth ,
and that is the present wherein we live !!

Also true is that we all live , that’s even a fact !!

For some people (some) good things are bad or just even rubbish !!

May I ask you , is your path “a peaceful life” ??

There are so many religions because people are stubborn.

Most religions DON’T claim to be “the one true religion”, by the way. The vast majority claim to be “OUR way of being good”, not “THE way of being good”.

Those that DO claim to be “the one true religion” need to demonstrate that by internal coherency, and external efficacy. In other words, they need to not contradict themselves and they need to show that they “work” toward what they say they are working toward.

Since it’s SO easy to simply “disregard” a religion’s qualifications as I just stated them, it’s a simple matter to just choose nearly ANY religion as being “the best one for me”, instead of the one best suited for all humankind.

Ah , I completely agree on this one !!

Do “fairy tales” convey truths?

Most people would say they do. Just like any good fiction, they tell us truths about what it means to to be human.

So, is it the fact that they simply are “fairy tales”, or that those “fairy tales” don’t tell anything useful, the reason you don’t like those “fairy tales”?

A fairy tale has a meaning beyond , true !!
The “story” you were telling ,
I see it more as a flyaway (a flighty something) !!

When we learn the consequences of sin, which is suffering, we learn how to request relief for that suffering.

Life brings us suffering. How we deal with that suffering is what we need to get better at during our life.

Partly agree !!

Life isn’t a suffering , but for some a struggling !!
Suffer the consequences !!
Look , I seize the day , enjoy with pleasure / as it comes ;
I die , ok , over & out !!

You “don’t and won’t” believe in what?

Do you really think that “all mankind” created creation?

In all honestly , what you call supernatural , that’s (the) nonsense !!
Why ?? No proof of existence has ever given !!

I agree on ,
the world was already on before mankind start to exist !!
why did the neanderthalers vanished ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), september 22, 2008

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
That’s nice, but why is what you called “good” and “helpful”?

Good: Not cheating , being honest
Being helpful can be good as long you don’t mess up !!

What makes “not cheating and being honest” a good thing?

Why is being helpful better than not being helpful?

Some will call my help useless ,
while others appreciate my help !!
Or some will call me a useless piece of beep !!
For such scum I will never (be) good helpful ,
I’ll even refuse in any further life !!

But how do you know that by being persistent in your helping this presently ungrateful person won’t be a really good thing, such as by that person later developing a cure for cancer when they wouldn’t have do so if you hadn’t been persistent?

Aren’t you being “evil” by not continuing to be “good”?

Are you actually saying that it’s sometimes “good” to be “evil”?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Do you do things because you think they are good to do?

The reason you think they are good is because you believe they are good to do. All those beliefs of yours are your religion. What you do, you do because it’s good to do because your religion (your beliefs) tell you they are good to do.

Many people agree that some particular things are good to do. All those who agree to those things as being good to do share in that religion, whether they know (or care about) it or not.

No religion , but faith in myself !!

But what you call your “faith in yourself” IS your religion.

Your actions are based on your faith in yourself, as you think that what you believe is a good basis on which to decide how to act.

Is that correct?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
It would be better to follow the truth because the truth tends to not cause “unnecessary friction” with reality.

To do what is right (the truth) in a society that is highly disordered is NOT the path to “a peaceful life”, but it is the path of promoting good over evil, which is why we’re here.

Look , there’s only one thruth , and that’s the truth ,
and that is the present wherein we live !!

Also true is that we all live , that’s even a fact !!

For some people (some) good things are bad or just even rubbish !!

May I ask you , is your path “a peaceful life” ??

No. It is “a truthful life”.

One can have “peace” by feeding good people to evil people. That is one “path” to a so-called “peaceful life”.

If one bases their actions on what will gain them the most “peace” (meaning “least conflict”), then one’s actions will increase evil in so much as one avoids conflict from evil people.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
There are so many religions because people are stubborn.

Most religions DON’T claim to be “the one true religion”, by the way. The vast majority claim to be “OUR way of being good”, not “THE way of being good”.

Those that DO claim to be “the one true religion” need to demonstrate that by internal coherency, and external efficacy. In other words, they need to not contradict themselves and they need to show that they “work” toward what they say they are working toward.

Since it’s SO easy to simply “disregard” a religion’s qualifications as I just stated them, it’s a simple matter to just choose nearly ANY religion as being “the best one for me”, instead of the one best suited for all humankind.

Ah , I completely agree on this one !!

But you DON’T agree with me, because you disregard ALL religions qualification’s and choose your “utterly personal” religion as “the best one for you”, instead of the best one suited for all humankind.

If you really believed that your religion was “best suited for all mankind” you’d try to spread it as the solution to the “proliferation of badly qualified religions” problem.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
Do “fairy tales” convey truths?

Most people would say they do. Just like any good fiction, they tell us truths about what it means to to be human.

So, is it the fact that they simply are “fairy tales”, or that those “fairy tales” don’t tell anything useful, the reason you don’t like those “fairy tales”?

A fairy tale has a meaning beyond , true !!
The “story” you were telling ,
I see it more as a flyaway (a flighty something) !!

My question was whether you think that these “fairy tales” are useful, or whether they CAN’T be useful simply because they are “fairy tales”?

From your answer, I’d say that you don’t think that ANY so-called “fairy tale” is in any way useful.

I have a hard time believing that.