Are Catholic men being turned into wimps?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lepanto
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh yeah, a man who could count to 21 in a bind (no shoes, gloves, and uh…), and when the Church had ultimate control (regardless of political “boundaries”) and it’s own agenda…
Yup, I’m a man because my God is better than yours, I think differently from you, and I’m going to ram it down your throat because my horse and armament is more advanced than yours…as the men and attitude of this time did against their combantants…

What about the “defenders” in these battles?? The men of this time… protecting their homes & family in defense of the “Christians”??? Were they any less a man? Are/were they not defending (probably even more fiercely, and with less “armament”) than their “Christian” attackers?

We’re talking about NOW. Not 700 +/- a few years ago… Don’t bring up knights & armored horses…

Now is this:
i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/th_soldier.jpg
This stuff will blow a hole right through a Bible, and then continue through anyone holding it as a “shield”…if you can’t figure it out this = dead Christian. The time for romanticism & “war with rules” is over.

The argument is that men (yes MEN… those wierd testosterone creatures) need to fall back upon their forebearer’s trials, discard the mistakes, LEARN from them, and assert the positives that time has proven. Regardless of religious or political discipline - the fact remains that strong, honest & true men raise the same in their children, promote this in their communities, and expect it within their neighbors…

and it’s time for women to realistically acknowledge & accept their inherant limits, and stop trying to be men.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Men want a leader figure. Look at football, the players listen to the quarterback who makes the plays and everyone cooperates as a team.

Visually, the Tridentine Mass placed the priest as the leader of the faithful gathered before God in the Sacrifice of Calvary.

Not saying this is the main reason, but the priest’s posture and the theology behind the Mass does make a difference in the consciousness of the Catholic faithful.

Some of the omitted prayers, such as the *Judica Me *and Leonine Prayers had very strong masculine connotations, about preparing for a battle:

P. I will go to the altar of God.
S. To God, the joy of my youth.
P. Do me justice, O God, and fight my fight against an unholy people, rescue me from the wicked and deceitful man.
S. For Thou, O God, art my strength, why hast Thou forsaken me? And why do I go about in sadness, while the enemy harasses me?
P. Send forth Thy light and thy truth: for they have led me and brought me to thy holy hill and Thy dwelling place.

St. Michael the archangel
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against
the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray.
And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

I read stories about Vietnam War vets who were POWS who were longing so much for the Mass, they made paintings, imagining Easter Sunday Mass. There is the story of WW II soldiers requesting a Mass at Iwo Jima, which occured before they raised the American flag there.
 
Give me a short, quiet, gently spoken, celibate little guy with glasses - like Archbishop Chaput! Now, there’s a man!

God bless him,

Ruthie
 
I think Catholic men need to have a good relationship with God and be who He calls them to be and not let society or a woman taking a leadership role in anything affect that. Sorry, but if a guy is THAT insecure in his masculinity, if the dignity of something is ruined in his eyes just because a woman can do it as well, then there are other issues affecting his manliness that have nothing to do with women.

And yes, I am an EM (and I have a very orthodox Dominican priest as a chaplain), I’m a leader in our Catholic community (and in many aspects of my life), I have assumed a protector role in the past (people learn very quickly not to treat someone badly if I’m around, especially if the person they are maltreating is someone I care about. It helps that I lift weights on a regular basis and that I used to play rugby), and guess what? I’m a woman!

A woman’s “natural” role is the role that God calls her to in this life, whether she’s a mother or religious (by vocation), a teacher, a doctor, a soldier, a nurse, a diplomat, a politician, a psychologist, a homemaker, a professor, a mechanic, an artist, a chef, etc (by trade), with the qualities that are natural to her. If a man finds that threatening, then that’s not acting on his God-given role as a man. That’s just insecurity.
 
The catholic church use to castrate choir boys. I think that speaks for itself.
 
luda_111 said:
The catholic church use to castrate choir boys. I think that speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
😃 LOL. Boy, talk about random comments on a 2 year old thread…

Anyway, I assume you are referring to the castrato. The Catholic Church did NOT advocate the castration of choir boys, and certainly did NOT do it, as you have alluded to. They probably could have done more to squelch this societal behavior of the time (by not employing their services and coming out strongly against this practice), but hindsight is always 20/20. Many times these things need to be studied more in their cultural and historical perspectives to understand the full picture. Do a search on this site if you are truly interested, or perhaps you just felt like stoking a fire 🤷
 
If society is responsible for over-feminizing men, its also responsible for over-masculinizing women. I think what would solve the problem would be for men & women to both take over the roles they were designed to have. Men should be the protectors, bread-winners, defenders, providers, etc. Women should be the care-givers, educators, child-bearers, etc. I’m not saying that women shouldn’t work in the work-force or whatever. I’m saying that everyone needs to realize that the sexes are different for a reason. We should all celebrate those differences and **treasure **them in each other. When a woman is at her most feminine her husband will be at his most masculine. That’s because there’s no competition between them. They fit together like a lock & key (nope, I’m not being dirty here ;)), his strength is brought out by her weakness and her strengths are brought out by his weaknesses. Its a beautiful thing.
 
But some women are better at being bread winners, some men are better at being caregivers. As for the defense argument, I’m Italian-American and I played rugby, not to mention I spend a good portion of my week doing some sort of manual labor. I don’t allow people to mess with those I love.

I don’t think we should be lumping people into a box…Women are mothers, men are fathers. How we parent and raise our families is mostly up to us. Provided we follow our faith, don’t abuse anyone, and don’t misuse sex, I think we’re fine. I don’t think God really cares as long as we place our hope in Him and go with what HE wants of our lives, rather than the world’s gender hangups.
 
jjtc said:
😃 LOL. Boy, talk about random comments on a 2 year old thread…

Anyway, I assume you are referring to the castrato. The Catholic Church did NOT advocate the castration of choir boys, and certainly did NOT do it, as you have alluded to. They probably could have done more to squelch this societal behavior of the time (by not employing their services and coming out strongly against this practice), but hindsight is always 20/20. Many times these things need to be studied more in their cultural and historical perspectives to understand the full picture. Do a search on this site if you are truly interested, or perhaps you just felt like stoking a fire 🤷
Click to expand...
They would employ castrated males, so i’m sure the castration procedure advocated by family members was motivated purely by greed and did not have the best interests of the boy at heart. This can be likened to a father raising their daughter to be a prostitute, and collecting the charges for himself. If there was no sex trade, there would be no prostitution. Likewise, if there was no Catholic choir. there would be no castratos.
 
luda_111 said:
They would employ castrated males, so i’m sure the castration procedure advocated by family members was motivated purely by greed and did not have the best interests of the boy at heart. This can be likened to a father raising their daughter to be a prostitute, and collecting the charges for himself. If there was no sex trade, there would be no prostitution. Likewise, if there was no Catholic choir. there would be no castratos.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily true, they were also highly prized (and highly compensated) for their work in the theatrical arts…
 
gracedk said:
whatevergirl… Where did you find that most stunningly beautiful picture that you carry on your posts? 🙂

i can totally relate to your question, by the way. Having been brought up in a somewhat different culture where the roles of both men and women are constantly challenged by both the opposite sex and the devil and our own psyche i am smack in the middle between two poles… The patristic that sometimes temps the christian male, and the totally secular that degrades both men and women in the likeness of the beast.
I once listened to a program on ewtn where the men were basically talking about masculinity in a way that made me feel really sick. Sort of like “your wife is at home changing a diper right now…wow, you the man!” and there was no room for the differences of people… I think all this talk about roles is okay in as much as we can truly admit and recognize our longings as women and men, but what about talking about personalities… And callings from god.
I dont think it is fair to want to passify a woman in order to feel male. Maybe i got too many male hormones but hey… I wanna be a preacher and an evangelist and i find that totally feminin… Why would it not be? I wanna be active … Not passive … I wanna serve in the church through the ministries of the holy spirit mentioned in 1. Cor 12… Nothing none-feminine about that… I wanna love and make children with god and my husband… I wanna shout from roof tops and go on adventures…
Some of the most beautiful men throughout history were poets, lovers, warriors, cripples, martyrs, fire fighters, men that played with their kids and held their wifes… Men that prayed both with the bible and contemplative… Some were teachers in the kindergarden and others were astronauts… All were men and good at being men.
Is there a problem with this… Then we should ask that problem to adress it self… It may be desire for power in descuise.
So god created man in his own image, in the image of god he created him/her; male and female he created them…

Did i hear someone say amen?
Click to expand...
amen amen amen!
 
Though anti-Catholic bigotry has always been with us, feminism has paved the way for weakening not only the Church but the nation.
 
Hmm, glad to know that my voting, going to college, getting involved in politics, having a job, playing rugby (because funding for women in sports wouldn’t have been possible before feminism) and daring to speak out against horrors like sexual assault, human trafficking and domestic violence are weakening the nation.

What kind of feminism are you talking about? The kind that allowed women their basic human rights, or the “feminism” that was hijacked in the 60’s and 70’s by NARAL and others?

I guess Susan B. Anthony List is anti-feminine, because even though it’s pro-life, it (GASP!) tries to get pro-life women in political office. I guess Catholic Campaign for Human Development (affiliated with the USCCB) is anti-feminine because it (GASP!) helps single moms and ex-convict women start their own businesses which (GASP!) help women provide for their families!

Passivity is not a feminine trait. Otherwise I and the many Catholic women I know (who, yes, actually follow the Church teachings) absolutely fail. If men need women to be weak for them to be strong, they’re not men. Sorry, but it’s true.
 
sanctamaria17 said:
What kind of feminism are you talking about? The kind that allowed women their basic human rights, or the “feminism” that was hijacked in the 60’s and 70’s by NARAL and others?
Click to expand...
The kind that blurs the unique distinctiveness between masculinity and femininity. The kind that tries to change men into girls and women into boys.
 
sanctamaria17 said:
Hmm, glad to know that my voting, going to college, getting involved in politics, having a job, playing rugby (because funding for women in sports wouldn’t have been possible before feminism) and daring to speak out against horrors like sexual assault, human trafficking and domestic violence are weakening the nation.

What kind of feminism are you talking about? The kind that allowed women their basic human rights, or the “feminism” that was hijacked in the 60’s and 70’s by NARAL and others?

I guess Susan B. Anthony List is anti-feminine, because even though it’s pro-life, it (GASP!) tries to get pro-life women in political office. I guess Catholic Campaign for Human Development (affiliated with the USCCB) is anti-feminine because it (GASP!) helps single moms and ex-convict women start their own businesses which (GASP!) help women provide for their families!

Passivity is not a feminine trait. Otherwise I and the many Catholic women I know (who, yes, actually follow the Church teachings) absolutely fail. If men need women to be weak for them to be strong, they’re not men. Sorry, but it’s true.
Click to expand...
Feminism was NEVER about equal rights or equal pay for equal work. That’s just a smoke screen.

It was always about embracing sinfulness and destroying the family. If you do just a little bit of historical research you will see eugenicists like Margaret Sanger are really the ‘mothers’ (corrupting the word no end) of feminism.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top