J
jam070406
Guest
I’m reminded of this passage:
2 Corinthians 6:15
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?
Are Catholics allowed to refrute Islam?
- Thread starter gmcbroom
- Start date
- Status
2 Corinthians 6:15
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?
L
Labarum
Guest
There is an excellent book on how to refute and evangelize Muslims. The book is called Inside Islam: a guide for Catholics.
I highly recommend it for anyone who wishes to learn more about Islam but also how to have an intelligent debate with Muslims.
I highly recommend it for anyone who wishes to learn more about Islam but also how to have an intelligent debate with Muslims.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Here’s a post worth a bump. Thats all I’m saying, speak up and speak the truth. And with Islam if its not the Truth than it a lie. Its Christian heresy plain and simple. And if it against Christ than who is it for?
The fact that their are good muslims goes unsaid. The King and Homeland security investigation just showed us that. We know this. But we have a major problem with a Bull running around in the China closet nonetheless. Yu can’t even seperate taliban from Islam anymore.
Being charitable and humble and bitting your tougue is very Christain. But this is a war of attriction. Time plays into Islam hands. We don’t have decades to address this issue.
Did anyone read the Syntax Codex and the correct interpretion of 666? Because 666 only appears in Greek translation. You would do well to understand the truth about this. And have it explained to you by someone who actually reads Arabic and Hebrew.
You know the Orthodox brothers who are coming here, are not debating with you because you are Catholic and they are Orthodox. So they want to disagree with you. They are trying to open your eyes to a truth.
Both Churchs are pressured and must walk on egg-shells. We are not a political religion with an army.
The church works from inside and ouside, And we need to help it from the outside. Both of these churchs are humbled. You have to listen to homilys to hear truth and if your not their weekly you’ll miss the one homily that clearly defines Islam. Islam is not a path to Heaven. Thats not a reality.
Jesus Christ “is” the path to heaven and there is no other.
T
thirddec
Guest
I believe it is important to be fully conversant with your own faith before even thinking of attempting to evangelise others. Especially the more complicated doctrines.
Discussions with Muslims is like fighting with both hands tied behind your back as you cannot Quote the bible as proof as its corrupted ( they say with no real proof ) but of course they can use the same corrupted verses when it proves their point. Of course you can’t suggest there is anything contradictory in the Quran but they will say there is no contradiction as some verses are literal and others need the interpretation of a learned Immam if there is apparent contradiction. Of couse they will see you as a prime target for conversion and the first lines of attack are fairly obvious;
The Quran is perfect ------- don’t accept that but dont get into a discussion about whether it has been corrupted or not. Point out the obvious that corruption of text neither proves or disproves the truth of the text. So a lie repeated pefrectly for a million years and by a million people will still be a lie. Then if you want to stay in this area ask them ; why ,where, when and by who was the Bible changed and any changes they find how has it changed any doctrinal beliefs of Christians. Also how can they know its been changed if they can’t find an original.
The Trinity ------- its not that they can’t get their head around the idea they wont and will continue to try and say we are worshiping 3 gods they will say its pagan in origin and is illogical anyway. Dont waste time here but point out that an athiest with an unbiased opinion will say its just as illogical to believe in 1 god as to believe in 1 god with 3 independant but unified natures so why not just agree to differ as we both know as humans we can never fully know or understand Gods nature. As far as the pagan trinity didn’t the pagans believe in an afterlife so does that mean believing in an afterlife is therefore wrong, whether pagans believed or didn’t in some idea doesn’t make it true or false.
When did Christ say he was God in the bible ---- When did he say he wasn’t and anyway it would have been inconsistant as Christ’s method of teaching who he was ; was through his actions and words, his teaching of the scriptures and meanings and his miracles and what the people had seen then to ask them, Who do you think I am? They have to believe in the Virgin birth as its in the Quran.
Mohhamed is prophiesed in the Bible; which one? the corrupted one?
christianchallenge.org/ask/Mohammed.html not a bad read
then ask who is this is this Mohammed.
Isaiah
For to us a child is born,
to us(Q) a son is given;
(R) and the government shall be(S) upon[d] his shoulder,
and his name shall be called[e]
Wonderful(T) Counselor,(U) Mighty God,
(V) Everlasting(W) Father, Prince of(X) Peace.
What about the one to come after Christ well we know thats the Holy Spirit ; the Paraclete.
The Gospel of Barnabas ---- Medieval Forgery easy to read up on any impartial website
These are some thinks I have found but theres plenty of Answering Islam websites but you need to be carefull not to come across as too antagonistic as they really believe.
The key to converting anyone to Christianity is Christ you must focus the discussion on him and everything he said and done and then ask Who do you think he is?
As far as the Crucifiction being a Fake ; its one verse in the Quran read even the muslim problems interpreting it literally; and why would God go to such lengths to promote a Lie; is God a liar ; has he ever shown himself to be a liar would God ever try to lead people astray. Why if he didn’t want Christ to be crucified would he let him be taken in the first place and suffer so much.
If Christ did die then they have to accept his ressurection as they believe God lifted him bodily to heaven.
I think we should be more intrested in protecting Christians from the attempts of Muslims to convert them by teaching them more of their own faiths and they problems inherant with Islam. Prevention better than cure.
But above all pray pray pray because only Christ can open their hearts to recieve.
I hope this helps
Discussions with Muslims is like fighting with both hands tied behind your back as you cannot Quote the bible as proof as its corrupted ( they say with no real proof ) but of course they can use the same corrupted verses when it proves their point. Of course you can’t suggest there is anything contradictory in the Quran but they will say there is no contradiction as some verses are literal and others need the interpretation of a learned Immam if there is apparent contradiction. Of couse they will see you as a prime target for conversion and the first lines of attack are fairly obvious;
The Quran is perfect ------- don’t accept that but dont get into a discussion about whether it has been corrupted or not. Point out the obvious that corruption of text neither proves or disproves the truth of the text. So a lie repeated pefrectly for a million years and by a million people will still be a lie. Then if you want to stay in this area ask them ; why ,where, when and by who was the Bible changed and any changes they find how has it changed any doctrinal beliefs of Christians. Also how can they know its been changed if they can’t find an original.
The Trinity ------- its not that they can’t get their head around the idea they wont and will continue to try and say we are worshiping 3 gods they will say its pagan in origin and is illogical anyway. Dont waste time here but point out that an athiest with an unbiased opinion will say its just as illogical to believe in 1 god as to believe in 1 god with 3 independant but unified natures so why not just agree to differ as we both know as humans we can never fully know or understand Gods nature. As far as the pagan trinity didn’t the pagans believe in an afterlife so does that mean believing in an afterlife is therefore wrong, whether pagans believed or didn’t in some idea doesn’t make it true or false.
When did Christ say he was God in the bible ---- When did he say he wasn’t and anyway it would have been inconsistant as Christ’s method of teaching who he was ; was through his actions and words, his teaching of the scriptures and meanings and his miracles and what the people had seen then to ask them, Who do you think I am? They have to believe in the Virgin birth as its in the Quran.
Mohhamed is prophiesed in the Bible; which one? the corrupted one?
christianchallenge.org/ask/Mohammed.html not a bad read
then ask who is this is this Mohammed.
Isaiah
For to us a child is born,
to us(Q) a son is given;
(R) and the government shall be(S) upon[d] his shoulder,
and his name shall be called[e]
Wonderful(T) Counselor,(U) Mighty God,
(V) Everlasting(W) Father, Prince of(X) Peace.
What about the one to come after Christ well we know thats the Holy Spirit ; the Paraclete.
The Gospel of Barnabas ---- Medieval Forgery easy to read up on any impartial website
These are some thinks I have found but theres plenty of Answering Islam websites but you need to be carefull not to come across as too antagonistic as they really believe.
The key to converting anyone to Christianity is Christ you must focus the discussion on him and everything he said and done and then ask Who do you think he is?
As far as the Crucifiction being a Fake ; its one verse in the Quran read even the muslim problems interpreting it literally; and why would God go to such lengths to promote a Lie; is God a liar ; has he ever shown himself to be a liar would God ever try to lead people astray. Why if he didn’t want Christ to be crucified would he let him be taken in the first place and suffer so much.
If Christ did die then they have to accept his ressurection as they believe God lifted him bodily to heaven.
I think we should be more intrested in protecting Christians from the attempts of Muslims to convert them by teaching them more of their own faiths and they problems inherant with Islam. Prevention better than cure.
But above all pray pray pray because only Christ can open their hearts to recieve.
I hope this helps
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
H
hansgeorg
Guest
First off, Didaché does not support their rejection of Holy Trinity or of Christ’s divinity. It does support our and their shared ethics. Mormons too share these ethics.
Why do I bring up Mormons? Well, they too started out with one man not knowing what he should believe, what we now call a religious seeker, and with that one man receiving a revelation.
Didaché does not agree with their ban on wine or the Mormon’s ban on wine and coffee. Nor does it endorse continuing Old Testament polygamy.
Then, both these religions do objectively disagree with the end of the Gospel of St Matthew. In 2005 I was saying this to a Mormon, who had been discussing with a black man. The Mormon left, he said he was a Muslim, and I gave him same answer. “I knew you would say that” he smiled. Unfortunately not all of them would smile in such a case.
*Sorry for being a grammarian, but the word is really refute: Latin “re” meaning back and “futare” something like push.
H
hansgeorg
Guest
Here is what I have to say so far on The Book of Mormon:
filolohika.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-reformed-egyptian-of-nephites.html
Thanks for the correction on the word refrute being refute. Grammarian or not I’d like to speak and write proper english./ 
As for Thirdec’s post I think that deserves to be stickied. Anything that helps with evangelization of Christ’s Gospel should be easily viewed by all.
Mod’s agree?
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
As for Thirdec’s post I think that deserves to be stickied. Anything that helps with evangelization of Christ’s Gospel should be easily viewed by all.
Mod’s agree?
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
I hear you, I feel the same. Mistakes happen.Thanks for the correction on the word refrute being refute. Grammarian or not I’d like to speak and write proper english./
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
H
hansgeorg
Guest
filolohika.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-reformed-egyptian-of-nephites.html
links in comments to latest post (right now) on same blog which begins answering that, here:
filolohika.blogspot.com/2011/03/gerald-smith-on-theme-of-great-apostasy.html
Now he did not say “claim to be me” but rather claiming someone is “Christ”=“Messiah”. As you know that inclides Bar Kochba and Sabbatai Zevi, none of whom claimed to be Jesus. Those two also said so about themselves.
T
thirddec
Guest
didn’t mani say he was?
B
Bwtby
Guest
One, Allah means God in Arabic. Dieu in French. Dio in Italian. Dios in Spanish. Is that also a grave insult?
Two, there’s dishonor to women in The Bible, and ‘rights’ to women came through secularly. In a Christian marriage… today… do you know why your wife has your last name?
M
MartinJordan
Guest
Is there a quote from by God himself in the Quran say that he has no son? No begotten Son?
Just wondering?
MJ
Just wondering?
MJ
J
jakasaki
Guest
They say: “(Allah) hath begotten a son” :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #116)
They say: “(Allah) hath begotten a son!” - Glory be to Him! He is self- sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! say ye about Allah what ye know not?
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #68)
Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, “(Allah) hath begotten a son”:
( سورة الكهف , Al-Kahf, Chapter #18, Verse #4)
They say: “((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!”
( سورة مريم , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #88)
And they say: “((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten offspring.” Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour.
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #26)
He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion: it is He who created all things, and ordered them in due proportions.
( سورة الفرقان , Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #2)
“(Allah) has begotten children”? but they are liars!
( سورة الصافات , As-Saaffat, Chapter #37, Verse #152)
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
( سورة الإخلاص , Al-Ikhlas, Chapter #112, Verse #3)
The word(s) “begotten” appears 8 time(s) in 8 verse(s) in Quran in Yusuf Ali translation.
Above I posted the verses for you review - I do however do not believe the koran to be allahs words.
D
Daegus
Guest
Christ asks us to preach the truth.
Because Islam is a false religion grounded in false doctrines and dogmas, by preaching the truth, we will essentially be refuting all of the falsehoods that they (Muslims/Moslems/Mohammedans/whatever) have been fed by their false prophet Mohammed.
Now of course, ALL of Islam cannot be refuted because it does contain several truths. For example, they understand that God is one, that there is only one God and no other God should be worshiped other than Him. They believe in a heaven and a hell (although faulty understandings of the 2) and they believe in the truths many of the prophets came to speak. I’m sure there are other things, but those can be left up to others to find.
For those people who have issues with CCC paragraph 841, they need to realize that the Mohammedans DO worship the same God that we do, they just have a faulty, incomplete understanding of who that God is, His nature and what He asks of us to do in our lives. We also need to understand that a follower of Mohammed that leads out their life in the way that Christ would want (in peace, love and unity) can enter heaven due to God’s loving nature. We should not assume that because they follow a false religion that they will not be with us in heaven.
Because Islam is a false religion grounded in false doctrines and dogmas, by preaching the truth, we will essentially be refuting all of the falsehoods that they (Muslims/Moslems/Mohammedans/whatever) have been fed by their false prophet Mohammed.
Now of course, ALL of Islam cannot be refuted because it does contain several truths. For example, they understand that God is one, that there is only one God and no other God should be worshiped other than Him. They believe in a heaven and a hell (although faulty understandings of the 2) and they believe in the truths many of the prophets came to speak. I’m sure there are other things, but those can be left up to others to find.
For those people who have issues with CCC paragraph 841, they need to realize that the Mohammedans DO worship the same God that we do, they just have a faulty, incomplete understanding of who that God is, His nature and what He asks of us to do in our lives. We also need to understand that a follower of Mohammed that leads out their life in the way that Christ would want (in peace, love and unity) can enter heaven due to God’s loving nature. We should not assume that because they follow a false religion that they will not be with us in heaven.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
Thanks for this. However, Im a bit confused is this is what Allah is saying or his Messenger’s (ie Mohammad) is saying. It doesn’t appear to be Allah himself. Correct me if you please.
It seems more like that the Quran misinterprets that Christians are blindly believing it rather than what God himself had said in the Gospels Of Matthew, Mark and John “This is my Son…”. The Quran also therefore seems a little less charitable or simply doesn’t understand Christians enough.
With that line of thought, I can see the CCC seems point out that Muslims just have a incomplete understanding. The CCC is being charitable.
That said, I understand the Quran’s statement about the virginity of Mary and her having only one child is something I appreciate in the sense, compared with some Protestants opinion that she had other children.
MJ
B
Bwtby
Guest
I think we all do.
H
hansgeorg
Guest
Briefly:Thanks for this. However, Im a bit confused is this is what Allah is saying or his Messenger’s (ie Mohammad) is saying. It doesn’t appear to be Allah himself. Correct me if you please.
It seems more like that the Quran misinterprets that Christians are blindly believing it rather than what God himself had said in the Gospels Of Matthew, Mark and John “This is my Son…”. The Quran also therefore seems a little less charitable or simply doesn’t understand Christians enough.
- the Quran is said to be what Allah told Mohammed BY THE MOUTH OF JIBREEL.
- lack of charity and of understanding are signs of error.
D
Daegus
Guest
Everyone might have an incomplete understanding of who God is, but we, as Catholics, do not have a FAULTY one. The Islamic concept of God is far more incomplete than what we believe God is.
Hopefully you won’t contend that.
T
thirddec
Guest
Remember even the devil will never be able to deny Christ is the Messiah and that He died and was crucified and rose from the dead. So even in the Quran it is there just stated in a way that leads to confusion and error which of course the muslims fall for because if Christ is the Messiah and the only way then whats the point of Mohammed.
In the Quran it confirms that Christ was born of a Virgin by the power of God.
In the Hadiths it states that there are only 2 humans not touched by satan and those are Mary and Christ.
so unless Mohammed was not human has also been touched by satan.
It is also stated in hadith that Mohammed did imagine things at least once when he thought he was having sex with his wives and wasn’t this was narated by Aisha his wife so is as reliable as it gets.
Mohammed didn’t practice what he preached either as a Good Muslim can only have 4 wives Mohammed had 9 at one point.
So call me silly but I think i’d rather put my trust in a Messiah who was born pure and practiced what he preached and never imagined things.
Love and Respect
In the Quran it confirms that Christ was born of a Virgin by the power of God.
In the Hadiths it states that there are only 2 humans not touched by satan and those are Mary and Christ.
so unless Mohammed was not human has also been touched by satan.
It is also stated in hadith that Mohammed did imagine things at least once when he thought he was having sex with his wives and wasn’t this was narated by Aisha his wife so is as reliable as it gets.
Mohammed didn’t practice what he preached either as a Good Muslim can only have 4 wives Mohammed had 9 at one point.
So call me silly but I think i’d rather put my trust in a Messiah who was born pure and practiced what he preached and never imagined things.
Love and Respect
- Status