W
wet-rat
Guest
- Regular people are also called to sainthood.
- The Saints were “regular people.”
- Status
R
Rae
Guest
What are the distinctions between being a Charismatic Catholic and being a Protestant Pentecostal (other than the obvious doctrinal differences). I’m referring to what goes on during the prayer service (when these gifts/healings etc. are make known), and whether they are similar, and to what degree.
My second question is why, regular people are claiming to have charismatic gifts when only a segment or portion of saints did? Isn’t the idea of these gifts of the Holy Spirit being bestowed upon individuals who are on a certain level of their spiritual journey? I mean, it makes sense that actual saints would have these gifts, but not the high number of regular folk who claim to have the same gifts. That ‘level’ of spirituality (grace) in their lives is what enables them to be open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit chooses what He gives to whom. I can’t imagine that it’s a power that’s applied loosely, and just because someone wants it. I believe there is a strong connection between holiness and grace and charismatic gifts.
My second question is why, regular people are claiming to have charismatic gifts when only a segment or portion of saints did? Isn’t the idea of these gifts of the Holy Spirit being bestowed upon individuals who are on a certain level of their spiritual journey? I mean, it makes sense that actual saints would have these gifts, but not the high number of regular folk who claim to have the same gifts. That ‘level’ of spirituality (grace) in their lives is what enables them to be open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit chooses what He gives to whom. I can’t imagine that it’s a power that’s applied loosely, and just because someone wants it. I believe there is a strong connection between holiness and grace and charismatic gifts.
R
Rae
Guest
wet-rat said:
Yes, I would agree that we all called to sainthood. I also realize that the saints were ‘regular people’. However, I don’t believe that most people, including myself, are on the same spiritual level, and have achieved as much grace as the Saints.
So, what I’m asking is how so very many people, who have not yet achieved ‘sainthood’ claim to have the same charismatic gifts of the saints. They are glorified, with those gifts from God, because they have reached a level that most of us haven’t. Thus why they have the gifts.
M
Marie
Guest
I wonder that myself. But I did for a moment think you answered your own question.
Love your signature…that is what caught my attention and got me off topic.
“REA’s Signature” said:
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dominicsavio
Guest
Rae,
peace be with you! since i don’t know how to quote someone properly, i will just copy one of your posts that i wish to give my thoughts on…“Yes, I would agree that we all called to sainthood. I also realize that the saints were ‘regular people’. However, I don’t believe that most people, including myself, are on the same spiritual level, and have achieved as much grace as the Saints.
So, what I’m asking is how so very many people, who have not yet achieved ‘sainthood’ claim to have the same charismatic gifts of the saints. They are glorified, with those gifts from God, because they have reached a level that most of us haven’t. Thus why they have the gifts.”
i have often pondered this same question but i have more recently taken a slightly different view of it because of something in my own life. i have felt through discernment that God is calling me to the priesthood and religious life. my whole life, I have had major struggles with pride. so after discerning that i had a vocation, i began to think that maybe i was holy or smart, etc…and that is why God must have been calling ME to serve Him and His Church. God was very quick to show me that He wasn’t calling me to religious life because I am holy, but because He desires to sanctify me through this gift that my vocation is. i really am not holy yet, but He desires to sanctify me and will do so by my obedience to His will. the same is true for married couples…living out that calling will be their sanctification, NOT their reward for sanctification. maybe it is the same for people with certain charismatic gifts. maybe God gives certain gifts, not because they are already great saints, but because He desires that they become saints through using these gifts for His glory. i could be WAY off on this, but it seems to make sense to me. hope that helps!
in Jesus and Mary,
dominic savio
peace be with you! since i don’t know how to quote someone properly, i will just copy one of your posts that i wish to give my thoughts on…“Yes, I would agree that we all called to sainthood. I also realize that the saints were ‘regular people’. However, I don’t believe that most people, including myself, are on the same spiritual level, and have achieved as much grace as the Saints.
So, what I’m asking is how so very many people, who have not yet achieved ‘sainthood’ claim to have the same charismatic gifts of the saints. They are glorified, with those gifts from God, because they have reached a level that most of us haven’t. Thus why they have the gifts.”
i have often pondered this same question but i have more recently taken a slightly different view of it because of something in my own life. i have felt through discernment that God is calling me to the priesthood and religious life. my whole life, I have had major struggles with pride. so after discerning that i had a vocation, i began to think that maybe i was holy or smart, etc…and that is why God must have been calling ME to serve Him and His Church. God was very quick to show me that He wasn’t calling me to religious life because I am holy, but because He desires to sanctify me through this gift that my vocation is. i really am not holy yet, but He desires to sanctify me and will do so by my obedience to His will. the same is true for married couples…living out that calling will be their sanctification, NOT their reward for sanctification. maybe it is the same for people with certain charismatic gifts. maybe God gives certain gifts, not because they are already great saints, but because He desires that they become saints through using these gifts for His glory. i could be WAY off on this, but it seems to make sense to me. hope that helps!
in Jesus and Mary,
dominic savio
C
chosunhoon
Guest
I used to attend all sorts of pentecostal services before I turned Catholic, so I’ll share my thoughts on what I know concerning the second question.
Rae:
Anyway, here’s what we know about the Corinthians…
were quarrelsome (1 Cor 1:11)
were babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1)
fleshy, jealous and filled with strife, (3:3)
arrogant (4:19)
grossly immoral (5:1)
fools (6:5)
defeated (6:7)
defrauding (6:8)
lacking self control (7:5)
divisive (11:18).
their meetings were counter productive (11:17),
they were getting drunk in church (11:21)
and were impatient (11:33).
Does any of this sound like holy saints?
Yet we know that the Corinthians were given these gifts! So much so that St. Paul orders the Corinthians to use them properly (see 1 Corinthians 14), in the context of love.
This totally suggests that God doesn’t simply give to those who are holy enough to use them, rather he expects every believer with whatever gift he/she’s given (1 Cor 12:6-11). He also expects us to eagerly desire them (1 Cor 12:31, 1 Cor 14:1) for the sake of building up the body of Christ (1 Cor 14:3-5), to strengthen believers (Rom 1:11). And the purpose of these gifts is to make Christians more mature (see 1 Cor 12:27-28, with Eph 4:11-13 and 1 Cor 12). I don’t see a reason to believe only the holiest of saints would be given such gifts.
These guys at max were Christians for 40 days.
Just my thoughts…
To suggest that only the ‘holier’ people receive the charismatic gifts is to suggest a sort of elitism. And 1 Corinthians 12 seems to address that exact issue (1 Cor 12:22-26).
Anyway, here’s what we know about the Corinthians…
were quarrelsome (1 Cor 1:11)
were babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1)
fleshy, jealous and filled with strife, (3:3)
arrogant (4:19)
grossly immoral (5:1)
fools (6:5)
defeated (6:7)
defrauding (6:8)
lacking self control (7:5)
divisive (11:18).
their meetings were counter productive (11:17),
they were getting drunk in church (11:21)
and were impatient (11:33).
Does any of this sound like holy saints?
Yet we know that the Corinthians were given these gifts! So much so that St. Paul orders the Corinthians to use them properly (see 1 Corinthians 14), in the context of love.
This totally suggests that God doesn’t simply give to those who are holy enough to use them, rather he expects every believer with whatever gift he/she’s given (1 Cor 12:6-11). He also expects us to eagerly desire them (1 Cor 12:31, 1 Cor 14:1) for the sake of building up the body of Christ (1 Cor 14:3-5), to strengthen believers (Rom 1:11). And the purpose of these gifts is to make Christians more mature (see 1 Cor 12:27-28, with Eph 4:11-13 and 1 Cor 12). I don’t see a reason to believe only the holiest of saints would be given such gifts.
Acts 2:4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
These guys at max were Christians for 40 days.
Please read 1 Corinthians 12:31, and 1 Corinthians 14:1. The overall context helps too (1 Cor 12-14).
In my view, the gifts are given to everyone (whether they realize they have it or not). When Joshua tells Moses to forbid two men from prophesying since they weren’t ‘supposed to’ (see Num 11:24-28), Moses replies:
Joel prophesied it would happen (Joel 2:28) and Moses’s wish finally came true at Pentecost:
So the Holy Spirit coming upon a believer was known to be associated with an impartation of a gift(s) which comes through the laying of hands (Acts 8:18, 2 Tim 1:6, cf Rom 1:11). And the laying on of hands was apparently one of the elementary teachings about Christ (Heb 6:1). This suggests young believers are to be properly instructed in these gifts, not just for the ‘holier’ folk. And based on what I shared the gifts appear to be imparted through Confirmation.
Just my thoughts…
C
chosunhoon
Guest
I completely agree
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Rae
Guest
Good thoughts, truly. However, I don’t believe that anyone, however, regardless of their ‘level of holiness’, receives charisms.
I believe that the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are imparted on everyone to some degree or another, regardless of ‘holiness’. However, I think that the additional, supernatural gifts of charism are given, by God, to those He chooses, for the purpose of building up the Church (not just so that they can have a ‘gift’). We are given many ‘presents’ and ‘blessings’ from God, certainly, but ‘charisms’ have a distinct purpose that goes far beyond the individual and effects the entire body of Christ in His Church.
I do believe that the Holy Spirit, of course, can impart grace on us all, as He does in Baptism, Confirmation, and in the other Sacraments. The laying on of the hands was, specifically, for the succession of priests and the apostolic power transferred to them so that they would be able to confer His grace upon believers through the Sacraments.
Somehow, Padre Pio, with his many charisms including bilocation, perfume, reading of souls, conversion, stigmata,
etc… would be given those many gifts, and profound ones at that (which were not just witnessed within the confines of a ‘service’, but daily within the world, and documented)…wouldn’t be any different from ‘John Smith’ who ‘spoke in tongues’ during Wednesday night’s charismatic meeting.
I believe that charisms (which are those additional supernatural gifts) come upon those who ARE holier, as proven by the Saints, whose ‘gifts’ are even witnessed after their departing of the world (as in the continuing miracles that are contributed to them).
I don’t think this needs to be a matter of us all feeling ‘defensive’, but that we should strive toward that level of spiritual ‘perfection’…and certainly not because we feel we deserve or should have those additional, supernatural gifts from God…but that we should be closer to God. I think those gifts are proof that the Saints are closer to God. That is how He lifts them up for everyone to see, as an example of how to live and how to be.
And not every saint had charisms. That didn’t mean that they weren’t holy, or that they should somehow feel ‘jilted’ by God. It simply wasn’t in God’s plan.
I don’t think these additional gifts of the Hoy Spirit are something we’re entitled to. I think that’s what makes them special.
We should simply strive to be saints, period.
I believe that the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are imparted on everyone to some degree or another, regardless of ‘holiness’. However, I think that the additional, supernatural gifts of charism are given, by God, to those He chooses, for the purpose of building up the Church (not just so that they can have a ‘gift’). We are given many ‘presents’ and ‘blessings’ from God, certainly, but ‘charisms’ have a distinct purpose that goes far beyond the individual and effects the entire body of Christ in His Church.
I do believe that the Holy Spirit, of course, can impart grace on us all, as He does in Baptism, Confirmation, and in the other Sacraments. The laying on of the hands was, specifically, for the succession of priests and the apostolic power transferred to them so that they would be able to confer His grace upon believers through the Sacraments.
Somehow, Padre Pio, with his many charisms including bilocation, perfume, reading of souls, conversion, stigmata,
etc… would be given those many gifts, and profound ones at that (which were not just witnessed within the confines of a ‘service’, but daily within the world, and documented)…wouldn’t be any different from ‘John Smith’ who ‘spoke in tongues’ during Wednesday night’s charismatic meeting.
I believe that charisms (which are those additional supernatural gifts) come upon those who ARE holier, as proven by the Saints, whose ‘gifts’ are even witnessed after their departing of the world (as in the continuing miracles that are contributed to them).
I don’t think this needs to be a matter of us all feeling ‘defensive’, but that we should strive toward that level of spiritual ‘perfection’…and certainly not because we feel we deserve or should have those additional, supernatural gifts from God…but that we should be closer to God. I think those gifts are proof that the Saints are closer to God. That is how He lifts them up for everyone to see, as an example of how to live and how to be.
And not every saint had charisms. That didn’t mean that they weren’t holy, or that they should somehow feel ‘jilted’ by God. It simply wasn’t in God’s plan.
I don’t think these additional gifts of the Hoy Spirit are something we’re entitled to. I think that’s what makes them special.
We should simply strive to be saints, period.
S
snuffy
Guest
Dear Friends:
To answer the beginning question are charismatics truly Catholic?
Of course we are…I was away from God and from any Church for over 20 yrs. This is a whole other story…However when I came back to the Church 10 yrs. ago. my sister was involved in the Charismatic Renewal. Eventually I gave in and started attending Catholic Charismatic meetings. WOW…and Amen. I took a weekend course about it and at the end was baptized in the Holy Spirit…
Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is (like) confirmation…it stirs up all the gifts we have all been given in confirmation. People pray over you to receive all the gifts that God wants to give us, and stir up in us.
I did not receive the gift of tongues, but prayed and asked for it and I received the gift a few weeks later at a meeting. I’m so grateful for the gift of tongues. There are different types of tongues, what I received is the kind used to glorify God…All gifts that are given are to glorify GOD ONLY…and not ourselves this is very important.
Have you ever tried to give praise to God continually for 15 min straight…try it…it’s not easy…our minds are to small to be able to praise Him for that long…we run out of words. So now I can praise God in tongues for hours…it’s a language of LOVE…and I truly Love giving HIm praise!!!
Personally, I think that the Catholic Church is missing so much by not teaching more about the Holy Spirit…However I would never leave the Catholic Church…because it doesn’t got it…
I attend a church that is truly dead…Lots of cradle Catholics who coome week after week…with no joy…no deep Love for Our Lord…and it is so sad…As for me I try to focus only on God at all the Masses I attend…I glorify Him and feel so connected to Him throughout the whole Mass. While others can’t wait to Leave Mass, I pray to stay longer.
To go to a true Catholic Charismatic Mass, we have to travel 2 hrs. to Ottawa. My husband, 2 children and myself try to go if not once but maybe twice a year…I’m telling it straight…talk about Heaven on Earth…All songs and prayers are truly spoken from the heart…And the LOVE I feel at these Masses, can only be described as Heaven on Earth…The Love for God at these Masses is unmistakable…
These Masses are 2 hrs. in length…What a blessing…noone is in a rush to leave. And my children 12 and 13 never say a word about the length. They realize something is different but they can’t quite understand what?? It is LOVE intensified.
However, there are some who don’t quite get it, and who are off in their own world, doing their own thing, (and some glorifying themselves). This is wrong…
I know many Catholic Charismatics, who are striving to become Holy…they are awesome people who would do anything for their Church…Leaving their Church is not an option.
Have you never heard of Ralph Martin; Fr. Micheal Scanlon; Scott Hahn…these are all Charismatic Catholics…and all are TRULY devoted to Christ and the Catholic Church. Also the University in Stuebenville Ohio…is run by Charismatics Catholics…
The truth is, is that when we don’t understand something it must be bad. Please if you don’t understand…check it out before you judge it…Just make sure it is ok’d by your Local Bishop. Our Prayer Group is registered and we have a nun who was appointed by our bishop, and she attends meetings to make sure of the Catholic content. Our group is 100% true Catholics, where most members fast on a regular basis…and one meeting a month is in front of the Blessed Sacrement, where it is sooo powerful to praise Jesus in the Eucharist.
I’m not off the wall here. I’m a Charismatic Catholic, who LOVES the Church, Loves God…and Loves going to Mass.
Please do not judge this movement so quickly…we need more Holy people in our Church…and I have met very few who belong to the Charismatic Renewal who do not strive to be HOLY.
Snuffy
To answer the beginning question are charismatics truly Catholic?
Of course we are…I was away from God and from any Church for over 20 yrs. This is a whole other story…However when I came back to the Church 10 yrs. ago. my sister was involved in the Charismatic Renewal. Eventually I gave in and started attending Catholic Charismatic meetings. WOW…and Amen. I took a weekend course about it and at the end was baptized in the Holy Spirit…
Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is (like) confirmation…it stirs up all the gifts we have all been given in confirmation. People pray over you to receive all the gifts that God wants to give us, and stir up in us.
I did not receive the gift of tongues, but prayed and asked for it and I received the gift a few weeks later at a meeting. I’m so grateful for the gift of tongues. There are different types of tongues, what I received is the kind used to glorify God…All gifts that are given are to glorify GOD ONLY…and not ourselves this is very important.
Have you ever tried to give praise to God continually for 15 min straight…try it…it’s not easy…our minds are to small to be able to praise Him for that long…we run out of words. So now I can praise God in tongues for hours…it’s a language of LOVE…and I truly Love giving HIm praise!!!
Personally, I think that the Catholic Church is missing so much by not teaching more about the Holy Spirit…However I would never leave the Catholic Church…because it doesn’t got it…
I attend a church that is truly dead…Lots of cradle Catholics who coome week after week…with no joy…no deep Love for Our Lord…and it is so sad…As for me I try to focus only on God at all the Masses I attend…I glorify Him and feel so connected to Him throughout the whole Mass. While others can’t wait to Leave Mass, I pray to stay longer.
To go to a true Catholic Charismatic Mass, we have to travel 2 hrs. to Ottawa. My husband, 2 children and myself try to go if not once but maybe twice a year…I’m telling it straight…talk about Heaven on Earth…All songs and prayers are truly spoken from the heart…And the LOVE I feel at these Masses, can only be described as Heaven on Earth…The Love for God at these Masses is unmistakable…
These Masses are 2 hrs. in length…What a blessing…noone is in a rush to leave. And my children 12 and 13 never say a word about the length. They realize something is different but they can’t quite understand what?? It is LOVE intensified.
However, there are some who don’t quite get it, and who are off in their own world, doing their own thing, (and some glorifying themselves). This is wrong…
I know many Catholic Charismatics, who are striving to become Holy…they are awesome people who would do anything for their Church…Leaving their Church is not an option.
Have you never heard of Ralph Martin; Fr. Micheal Scanlon; Scott Hahn…these are all Charismatic Catholics…and all are TRULY devoted to Christ and the Catholic Church. Also the University in Stuebenville Ohio…is run by Charismatics Catholics…
The truth is, is that when we don’t understand something it must be bad. Please if you don’t understand…check it out before you judge it…Just make sure it is ok’d by your Local Bishop. Our Prayer Group is registered and we have a nun who was appointed by our bishop, and she attends meetings to make sure of the Catholic content. Our group is 100% true Catholics, where most members fast on a regular basis…and one meeting a month is in front of the Blessed Sacrement, where it is sooo powerful to praise Jesus in the Eucharist.
I’m not off the wall here. I’m a Charismatic Catholic, who LOVES the Church, Loves God…and Loves going to Mass.
Please do not judge this movement so quickly…we need more Holy people in our Church…and I have met very few who belong to the Charismatic Renewal who do not strive to be HOLY.
Snuffy
R
Rae
Guest
one last thing before I forget (as an addition to my last post)…
If it doesn’t matter one’s status of holiness, then what is the criteria for receiving charisms? Why wouldn’t just about everyone or anyone, on the face of the planet, have one or two…including those sinners who are on the ‘lower end’ of the ‘spiritual journey’? There has to be a defining ‘criteria’. That is why I believe that a certain level of ‘holiness’ is part of the picture.
If it doesn’t matter one’s status of holiness, then what is the criteria for receiving charisms? Why wouldn’t just about everyone or anyone, on the face of the planet, have one or two…including those sinners who are on the ‘lower end’ of the ‘spiritual journey’? There has to be a defining ‘criteria’. That is why I believe that a certain level of ‘holiness’ is part of the picture.
C
_Christopher
Guest
Dave Young:
I also thought “tongues” meant speaking lots of languages.Is the charismatic movement an adaptation of protestantism? Did I miss something or is this a new post Vatican II phenomena? Of course, I know about the gifts of language in apostolic times. I just wonder if what often sounds like gibberish could be the same thing.
B
beng
Guest
Everyone is given different give. And not EVERYONE is given the gift.
Notice what Paul said
1 Cor 14:5
*5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified. *
See the bolded part? It means that not all could speak tongue.
Those people were supposed to phropesied per God instruction. God gave them the ability to prophesise.
And think about it. If it’s true that all people were given the give, why only those 70 elders? And that even after God took some of the spirit he gave to Moses (the Charism to be a leader that also come with prophesising etc). If all have it, then God would do it diferently. He just needs to activated it (per what you imply).
Be careful with the word “all”. Paul once said, “All has sin.” Does this include Jesus? Mary?
Laying of the hands is supposedly something that only people with Holy Order could do (and maybe Deacon too, not sure). I’m always wary when those Charismatic lay their hands on someone. I think it’s inapropriate. It has Protestant flavor which rejected the sacrament of Holy Order (where laying of the hands has it truest meaning).
There were many St who can not speak tongues. I don’t think they are not “improperly instructed about how to used this gift.” They just have different gift.
Tongue and some other stuff from Envoy Magazine
St. Augustine teaches that in the first days of the Church, this gift was especially necessary in order for the gospel to be preached swiftly to all the nations of the world, in a manner which gave miraculous proof of the divine origin of the doctrine taught. He goes on to say that since now the Church really does speak all the languages of the world and is found in every land, the gift is less necessary. In the 32nd of his treatises on the Gospel of John, he adds, “Nowadays when the Holy Spirit has just been received, no one speaks in the languages of all the nations, since the Church already speaks the languages of all the nations, and if one is not in her, he does not receive the Holy Spirit.”
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
The best kept secret in the catholic church are Life in the Spirit seminars. Notice its very rare that it is spoken about on the pulpit. The best thing in my oppinion that happened in the RCC was the charasmatic movement. Even the Pope has acknowleged that fact. People dont understand it and because of it the condem it. Those that are involved in the movement in my oppinion are much more sensitive to what the Holy Spirit is saying. Try it you might be touched and be more open to the Spirit and develop a closer relationship with our Lord. 
D
DonaNobisPacem
Guest
I once heard an explanation from a holy Priest from MN. I am really kindof paraphrasing here, not word for word.
He said: If we are looking for extraordinary things in prayer, that is GENERALLY not what happens. We have to be very careful because some extraordinary things are not from God. The main problem is if the ones who are charismatics start thinking that the charism comes from themselves and usually then they leave the Church. The test of authenticity is if the individual is participating in the life of the Church and receiving the Sacraments.
I think the testimony of Snuffy shows the positive effects it can have:
He said: If we are looking for extraordinary things in prayer, that is GENERALLY not what happens. We have to be very careful because some extraordinary things are not from God. The main problem is if the ones who are charismatics start thinking that the charism comes from themselves and usually then they leave the Church. The test of authenticity is if the individual is participating in the life of the Church and receiving the Sacraments.
I think the testimony of Snuffy shows the positive effects it can have:
B
beng
Guest
Hardly…
D
dominicsavio
Guest
peace be with you! i think that i would agree with many of the ideas in your post. i agree 100% that these gifts are nothing anyone is entitled to or something God gives just because someone desires a gift. because people are not entitled to it, they are more special…they are gifts freely given by God. i think that charismatic gifts are given to people only when they are at a certain point in their spiritual lives, but for certain gifts one does not need to be a great saint to receive them. i will say that something like the stigmata has only been given to a small number of people in history. it is rare and I think that God will ONLY give a gift that deep to a great saint. but there are lesser gifts. St. Paul himself distinguishes the different gifts. i don’t have the passage in front of me, but i believe he put tongues at the bottom. i don’t think that people should seek out these gifts and have different people pray over them in order to try to get them, but i think with the “lesser” gifts, God can give them to a person, not as a reward for holiness, but as a means of their santification through their obedience and use of that gift.
M
MichaelTDoyle
Guest
Just my thoughts . . .
The best thing is the Eucharist. Keep His commandments and prayer are where I should be focusing. I need to learn too. Isn’t there scripture about testing such gifts?
:bible1: Galatians
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity,
23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be made desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
I am short in a lot of those good qualities and I think the Sacraments and the Rosary are helping me. I don’t see where charismatic prayer falls into this effort. If consciously trying to invoke the Spirit, then charismatic movement smacks of occultism. If unconscious, then it will come of its own accord without special meetings.
The idea that the Holy Spirit rebaptises is direct heresy: We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That is very scary if people are enunciating new ideas like this. Maybe I am reading it wrong and am ignorant.
I admit my ignorance, but in doing so I think I want to continue to learn within firmly and soundly established guardrails like the CCC. I’m not making time to get to mass daily, I think I’ll try for that than something untested.
just my thoughts.
Michael
The best thing is the Eucharist. Keep His commandments and prayer are where I should be focusing. I need to learn too. Isn’t there scripture about testing such gifts?
:bible1: Galatians
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity,
23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be made desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
I am short in a lot of those good qualities and I think the Sacraments and the Rosary are helping me. I don’t see where charismatic prayer falls into this effort. If consciously trying to invoke the Spirit, then charismatic movement smacks of occultism. If unconscious, then it will come of its own accord without special meetings.
The idea that the Holy Spirit rebaptises is direct heresy: We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. That is very scary if people are enunciating new ideas like this. Maybe I am reading it wrong and am ignorant.
I admit my ignorance, but in doing so I think I want to continue to learn within firmly and soundly established guardrails like the CCC. I’m not making time to get to mass daily, I think I’ll try for that than something untested.
just my thoughts.
Michael
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
Thank God for oppinions. If you havent experienced it ,then its you whom has lost out…Seek and you will find,knock and it will be opened.
B
beng
Guest
I speak because I HAVE experienced it!!Thank God for oppinions. If you havent experienced it ,then its you whom has lost out…Seek and you will find,knock and it will be opened.
I’ve seen Catholics becoming more Protestants than Protestants themselves. Disheartening. Sad.
S
SPOKENWORD
Guest
Beng, You only think you have experienced it. If I was to guess id say you probably have witnessed it.
- Status