Are Communion Services ok ?

[JM3]

Can you provide a quote to support: “the Church says they’re not for use on weekdays as a matter of a routine daily service.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause,”[269] then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.[270]

[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of the Eucharist.[271] The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

 

[fall_fox]

Can you provide a quote to support: “the Church says they’re not for use on weekdays as a matter of a routine daily service.”

Regarding “if there’s no Mass, there’s no Mass; why have a communion service?” Perhaps considering indulgences would be helpful. From vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html :
"4. A plenary indulgence can be gained only once a day. In order to obtain it, the faithful must, in addition to being in the state of grace:

— have the interior disposition of complete detachment from sin, even venial sin;
— have sacramentally confessed their sins;
— receive the Holy Eucharist (it is certainly better to receive it while participating in Holy Mass, but for the indulgence only Holy Communion is required);
— pray for the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff.

1. It is appropriate, but not necessary, that the sacramental Confession and especially Holy Communion and the prayer for the Pope’s intentions take place on the same day that the indulgenced work is performed; but it is sufficient that these sacred rites and prayers be carried out within several days (about 20) before or after the indulgenced act. Prayer for the Pope’s intentions is left to the choice of the faithful, but an “Our Father” and a “Hail Mary” are suggested. One sacramental Confession suffices for several plenary indulgences, but a separate Holy Communion and a separate prayer for the Holy Father’s intentions are required for each plenary indulgence."

So someone who can receive Communion 365 days a year can get 365 indulgences per year. Someone who can receive Communion 52 times a year can only get 52 indulgences. If someone wants to get an indulgence per day should the bishop have a policy that prevents that?

Some extracts from the Compendium of the Catechism:

"211. How can we help the souls being purified in purgatory?

1032

Because of the communion of saints, the faithful who are still pilgrims on earth are able to help the souls in purgatory by offering prayers in suffrage for them, especially the Eucharistic sacrifice. They also help them by almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance."

"292. What are the fruits of Holy Communion?

1391-1397
1416

Holy Communion increases our union with Christ and with his Church. It preserves and renews the life of grace received at Baptism and Confirmation and makes us grow in love for our neighbor. It strengthens us in charity, wipes away venial sins and preserves us from mortal sin in the future."

So my understanding is that the bishop has a decision to make.

From your parish,how far is it to another parish that would have a mass that you can attend? I’m not so sure about your gaining a plenary indulgence, Your focus seems to be there, what good will it get me, than for the sole purpose of going to mass to praise Christ.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Can you provide a quote to support: “the Church says they’re not for use on weekdays as a matter of a routine daily service.”

I admit to being greatly surprised that you don’t know.

 

[FAB]

Question #1) As I understand it, weekday communion services are discouraged, but the final decision belongs to the Bishop.

Question #2) The parish is not wrong if they have the permission of the Bishop. If they do it on their own authority, then they would be wrong.

This is the correct answer. My ordianry discourages the use of communion services by a parish when a mass is available at an adjoining parish. The reason was because of abuses. Everytime a group would meet they would do a communion service. It is the rightful place that communion be recieved in the context of a mass with the exceptions for the sick.
I will bew doing a communion service in the morning as one of the exceptions to the rule. The priest at the last minute in not available, those coming to the service are expecting a mass to be able to receive communion. Instead of sending them away the liturgy of the word will include communion.

 

[Aeolian]

I don’t think he votes for ‘nothing’. Having a daily Liturgy of the Hours and keeping Communion within Mass is not ‘nothing’ and it’s the official prayer of the Church. Separating Communion from Mass is a big problem – it comes to a point that people don’t care if they have Mass as long as they get Communion.

I’ve seen that happen in parishes that don’t have a priest on a regular basis. It gets to a point that they don’t care if they have a priest as long as one shows up for Christmas and Easter and leaves behind lots of consecrated Hosts when he goes away for 4 months. They care so little for the Prayer of the Church that if Communion isn’t offered they don’t bother to show up for a Liturgy of the Word on Sunday.

I know there’s no obligation to go to Church if there’s no Mass but the Church itself says it’s important to gather as a community that day even if there is no Mass.

Why would you suggest the LOTH in place of an approved communion service? The grace stemming from receiving Holy Communion is immeasurable. I would never try to force or sell a CS on any community that was happy with their daily prayer service, but to remove an approved/reverent CS in the absence of a Mass is just wrong.

Yes, we can all dredge-up stories about horrible Mass, CSs and even public prayer celebrations but they should not be used to eliminate CSs.

 

[Aramis]

My church has three communon services a week. Mass is always said on sunday.
I have read that in cases where mass is on Sunday, communion services should be discouraged. Is this true?

Is a parish wrong if they hold a communion service if the same parish has mass every Sunday?

“To be discouraged” is not the same as “is not allowed.”

As others have stated, if the bishop permits, it is permitted. If he permits in error, it is his sin, not yours.

 

[fall_fox]

“To be discouraged” is not the same as “is not allowed.”

As others have stated, if the bishop permits, it is permitted. If he permits in error, it is his sin, not yours.

This is exactly why the Church is in the state that it is in. Trying to find a loop hole where ever you can to achieve what you want to achieve. I was a military guy for five years and knew that is an officer discouraged you from doing something, you had better not do it, there would be consequences. The Church desperately needs strong leadership to enforce the rules of the Church, but the Church also needs to have lay people to abide by not only the laws of the Church but also the spirit of the law. " HIS SIN NOT YOURS " really is that what you want to say? In the recent past a lay person was not even aloud to touch the Sacred Vessels. [edited]

 

[Aramis]

This is exactly why the Church is in the state that it is in. Trying to find a loop hole where ever you can to achieve what you want to achieve. I was a military guy for five years and knew that is an officer discouraged you from doing something, you had better not do it, there would be consequences. The Church desperately needs strong leadership to enforce the rules of the Church, but the Church also needs to have lay people to abide by not only the laws of the Church but also the spirit of the law. " HIS SIN NOT YOURS " really is that what you want to say? In the recent past a lay person was not even aloud to touch the Sacred Vessels. [edited]

Transfer from one church within the Union under the Pope to another is in the “To be discouraged” category. (Vatican II post conciliar documents.) And yet, it is explicitly permitted under canon law.

Not confessing venial sins is to be discouraged; it is still explicitly permitted by canon law.

You genuinely seem to misconstrue what it means in terms of the church usage.

And remember: the military and the church are run quite differently. Communion services are specifically allowed under canon law at the bishop’s discretion.

 

[fall_fox]

Transfer from one church within the Union under the Pope to another is in the “To be discouraged” category. (Vatican II post conciliar documents.) And yet, it is explicitly permitted under canon law.

I’m not sure what you are saying. If you are alluding to what I said about going to another Parish that has a Mass instead of your own that is having a Communion Service, I’m not talking about transferring, I’m just talking about choosing a Mass over a Communion Service

You genuinely seem to misconstrue what it means in terms of the church usage.

What??

And remember: the military and the church are run quite differently.

Looking back over the past 50 years of the Catholic Church, I’m not so sure they should be run differently. Both need their directives obeyed.

Communion services are specifically allowed under canon law at the bishop’s discretion.

It is up to the Bishop’s discretion, but there are guidelines that need to be followed.

 

[PJM]

=LindaCamp;8562402]My church has three communon services a week. Mass is always said on sunday.
I have read that in cases where mass is on Sunday, communion services should be discouraged. Is this true?

Is a parish wrong if they hold a communion service if the same parish has mass every Sunday?

Linda, who is conducting the Communion service and WHY?

Communion servies cannot replace Mass, and ought NOT to be done by “the laity” and are not a necessity except when by ACTUAL AND REAL NEED, a priest is not available for Mass.

Under the Disguise of pious actions lies the slippery Slope, and GRAVE misunderstanding [abuse] of the MYSTERY of the Eucharist and the Proper and exclusive role of PRIEST; especially when the communion service is conducted by female-gender.

They ought therefore to be limited to REAL Need appliactions.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[o_mlly]

My church has three communon services a week. Mass is always said on sunday.
I have read that in cases where mass is on Sunday, communion services should be discouraged. Is this true?

Is a parish wrong if they hold a communion service if the same parish has mass every Sunday?

Has the Church changed her position as to the frequency and conditions that guide an ordinary to allow Communion Services outside a parish church? For instance, are Communion Services led by an EMHC with the appropirate liturgical rites conducted at assisted-living or nursing homes now as frequently as such services were conducted before 2004 in your parish?

 

[fall_fox]

I don’t think he votes for ‘nothing’. Having a daily Liturgy of the Hours and keeping Communion within Mass is not ‘nothing’ and it’s the official prayer of the Church. Separating Communion from Mass is a big problem – it comes to a point that people don’t care if they have Mass as long as they get Communion.

I’ve seen that happen in parishes that don’t have a priest on a regular basis. It gets to a point that they don’t care if they have a priest as long as one shows up for Christmas and Easter and leaves behind lots of consecrated Hosts when he goes away for 4 months. They care so little for the Prayer of the Church that if Communion isn’t offered they don’t bother to show up for a Liturgy of the Word on Sunday.

I know there’s no obligation to go to Church if there’s no Mass but the Church itself says it’s important to gather as a community that day even if there is no Mass.

Well said!

 

[TheMc]

I don’t think he votes for ‘nothing’. Having a daily Liturgy of the Hours and keeping Communion within Mass is not ‘nothing’ and it’s the official prayer of the Church. Separating Communion from Mass is a big problem – it comes to a point that people don’t care if they have Mass as long as they get Communion.

I’ve seen that happen in parishes that don’t have a priest on a regular basis. It gets to a point that they don’t care if they have a priest as long as one shows up for Christmas and Easter and leaves behind lots of consecrated Hosts when he goes away for 4 months. They care so little for the Prayer of the Church that if Communion isn’t offered they don’t bother to show up for a Liturgy of the Word on Sunday.

I know there’s no obligation to go to Church if there’s no Mass but the Church itself says it’s important to gather as a community that day even if there is no Mass.

I echo Fall Fox. That is very well said. The problem with communion services is that it does several things, none of which are good for the church:

1. It de-emphasizes (sometime severely, as you mentioned) the priest’s indispensable role as our mediator before God
2. It de-emphasizes the importance of the Mass, and over emphasizes the reception of Holy Communion “at all costs”
3. It disconnects holy communion from the Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s an integral part of the Mass, and if possible, should be kept within the Mass.

Pope Benedict also recently stressed how important the LOTH should be in our prayer life:
“I would like to renew my call to everyone to pray the Psalms, to become accustomed to using the Liturgy of the Hours, Lauds, Vespers, and Compline.”
Source: Fr. Z

“Word and Communion Services” were one of those well intentioned things after the council that just didn’t quite work out.

 

[Aeolian]

The first several postings on this thread were better than the latter ones. Once again, it’s up to the local bishop. People who feel the need to advocate for fewer CS’s are quick to point out potential problems. But they are just that, potential problems. A pastor along with his bishop can take steps from the very beginning to ensure such potential problems are not allowed to negatively impact the CS’s. Even inferring that there are only two choices, either a deficient CS or no CS is a terrible false dichotomy.

 

[TheMc]

Even inferring that there are only two choices, either a deficient CS or no CS is a terrible false dichotomy.

But the point is that the very idea of a CS leads to these conclusions. Why don’t we just pray the prayer of the church together instead?

 

[fall_fox]

I echo Fall Fox. That is very well said. The problem with communion services is that it does several things, none of which are good for the church:

1. It de-emphasizes (sometime severely, as you mentioned) the priest’s indispensable role as our mediator before God
2. It de-emphasizes the importance of the Mass, and over emphasizes the reception of Holy Communion “at all costs”
3. It disconnects holy communion from the Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s an integral part of the Mass, and if possible, should be kept within the Mass.
   Pope Benedict also recently stressed how important the LOTH should be in our prayer life:
   “I would like to renew my call to everyone to pray the Psalms, to become accustomed to using the Liturgy of the Hours, Lauds, Vespers, and Compline.”
   Source: Fr. Z
   “Word and Communion Services” were one of those well intentioned things after the council that just didn’t quite work out.

fall fox

I have a web site that all Catholics should see, it helps you to understand. This is a guy that is turning 50 and is showing that he and everyone his age have been cheated out of their Catholic Heritage. My being 27yrs his senior I KNOW what he has been cheated out of. www.realcatholictv.com

another site is wwwccwatershed.org/Vatican YOU WILL BE KNOCKED OUT ! ! !

 

[o_mlly]

But the point is that the very idea of a CS leads to these conclusions. Why don’t we just pray the prayer of the church together instead?

Is not Communion outside of Mass stlll a sacrament. Are not reception of the sacraments, especially Eucharist, the ordinary means of our salvation? Prayer is complimentary but surely it is no substitute.

 

[o_mlly]

Is not Communion outside of Mass stlll a sacrament. Are not reception of the sacraments, especially Eucharist, the ordinary means of our salvation? Prayer is complimentary but surely it is no substitute.

Can. 918 It is highly recommended that the faithful receive holy communion during the eucharistic celebration itself. It is to be administered outside the Mass, however, to those who request it for a just cause, with the liturgical rites being observed.

 

[Phemie]

Can. 918 It is highly recommended that the faithful receive holy communion during the eucharistic celebration itself. It is to be administered outside the Mass, however, to those who request it for a just cause, with the liturgical rites being observed.

But what is a ‘just cause’?
I want it because I want it?
There was Mass yesterday and there will be tomorrow but I want Communion today when there’s no Mass?
There’s Mass at the Church 10 blocks away but I’d rather receive in my own parish even if Mass is not celebrated?
I’m housebound and can’t receive Communion any other way?
We don’t have a priest for a few weeks and we would like to receive Communion on Sunday?
We don’t have a priest for months on end and we’d like to receive Communion on Sunday?

Redemptionis Sacramentum certainly doesn’t encourage daily Communion outside of Mass if Mass can be celebrated on Sunday.

I’ve experienced the abuse, when I was a member of a linguistically based “Catholic Community”, of seeing my community have a Sunday Celebration of the Word with Communion when a priest who spoke French wasn’t available to celebrate Mass. This in spite of the fact that all the members spoke English as their second language and had to drive past one, two or even, in some cases, four or five English Churches where Mass was being celebrated in order to attend the Liturgy of the Word. I never bothered to go unless I was tasked to read or be EMHC but even when I had to go to the LoW, my children and I still attended Mass elsewhere.

 

[TheMc]

Can. 918 It is highly recommended that the faithful receive holy communion during the eucharistic celebration itself. It is to be administered outside the Mass, however, to those who request it for a just cause, with the liturgical rites being observed.

Ding.