Are couples so selfish these days that they won't have kids

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Also I do get the urge to have kids…quite a bit… But I am sure it is purely biological…because it comes and goes depending on the time of month. My hubby jokes that when I hit 30 I am going to go baby crazy…and I told him I hope you tell me no if I tell you I want a baby.

**All of those “fears” you listed are very common. No one WANTS to have their free time taken away, be under a constant barrage of noise, get up in the middle of the night etc. And no woman in her right mind looks forward to pain, lol. Some women desire children more than others though…

but those things are all done in sacrifice for a great love. Imagine all of the ways your life would be different if you didn’t have a husband. You would be even more “free” etc but the love you share makes you not even feel like you are sacrificing anything. Same goes with kids:thumbsup:

But that urge you are talking about in the quote above…sounds a lot like God whispering in your ear to let go of your fears and trust in Him. There are many women who really really don’t want children…and that means at that time of the month too. It would be really really sad if you wake up one day, your fertility is gone, and THEN you realize how much you really did want to be a mom
**

 

[Calliso]

**All of those “fears” you listed are very common. No one WANTS to have their free time taken away, be under a constant barrage of noise, get up in the middle of the night etc. And no woman in her right mind looks forward to pain, lol. Some women desire children more than others though…

but those things are all done in sacrifice for a great love. Imagine all of the ways your life would be different if you didn’t have a husband. You would be even more “free” etc but the love you share makes you not even feel like you are sacrificing anything. Same goes with kids:thumbsup:

But that urge you are talking about in the quote above…sounds a lot like God whispering in your ear to let go of your fears and trust in Him. There are many women who really really don’t want children…and that means at that time of the month too. It would be really really sad if you wake up one day, your fertility is gone, and THEN you realize how much you really did want to be a mom
**

Well true I picked the duh no one likes those things reasons for the most part. But really I am almost positive that it is nothing more then a biological urge…cause when it goes away oh boy does it go away. I have pregnancy scares and been disappointed that I wasn;t then been relieved like a week later! Really though if God is whispering in my ear he needs to be more obvious!

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Well true I picked the duh no one likes those things reasons for the most part. But really I am almost positive that it is nothing more then a biological urge…cause when it goes away oh boy does it go away. I have pregnancy scares and been disappointed that I wasn;t then been relieved like a week later! Really though if God is whispering in my ear he needs to be more obvious!

**

You sound like a normal healthy woman to me. Not every woman grows up thinking about being a mom and loves babies from the time she could walk ,lol. I certainly didn’t. I was actually convinced for a long time that I didn’t want children at all, ever. Never had even the slightest urge. But as the years passed, things changed. I still feared not being a very good mom, how it would affect my already poor health, and struggled with being open to God vs prudence.

But now I have a beautiful 2 year old daughter. Yes, this is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Yes, in some ways it is even worse than i imagined. But it is ALL WORTH IT. I can’t even begin to describe the feeling.

Oh, and I still don’t really like kids, lol…but mine is different.

Maybe if God is whispering in your ear, He will shout if you don’t hear Him at first. I pray that you get a clear answer either way… but don’t be afraid to listen. God Bless you!**

 

[Calliso]

**

You sound like a normal healthy woman to me. Not every woman grows up thinking about being a mom and loves babies from the time she could walk ,lol. I certainly didn’t. I was actually convinced for a long time that I didn’t want children at all, ever. Never had even the slightest urge. But as the years passed, things changed. I still feared not being a very good mom, how it would affect my already poor health, and struggled with being open to God vs prudence.

But now I have a beautiful 2 year old daughter. Yes, this is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Yes, in some ways it is even worse than i imagined. But it is ALL WORTH IT. I can’t even begin to describe the feeling.

Oh, and I still don’t really like kids, lol…but mine is different.

Maybe if God is whispering in your ear, He will shout if you don’t hear Him at first. I pray that you get a clear answer either way… but don’t be afraid to listen. God Bless you!**

Thank you for your prays! Yeah I want a clear answer too! Cause the back and forth drives me crazy. Right now I am in baby baby baby! mood. I bet a week from now I will be wondering whatI was thinking a week ago…sigh lol.

 

[leonie]

My brother and SIL have decided not to have children.

I do think it’s for selfish reasons.

She wanted to pursue her passion–Norwegian folk music (I’m not kidding).

He likes to compete in triathlons.

They also are very busy saving abandoned pets. Currently, they have 9 dogs and 9 cats. A lot of their resources go to the care of these pets.

My SIL is also afraid of pain. She is scared by the thought of pregnancy.

Both have concerns about world population

Ironically, they would be wonderful parents. They are both very lovely people who have just become very distracted by the world. They are both away from the Church–completely indifferent.

Please pray for my dear brother and SIL.

 

[Calliso]

My brother and SIL have decided not to have children.

I do think it’s for selfish reasons.

She wanted to pursue her passion–Norwegian folk music (I’m not kidding).

He likes to compete in triathlons.

They also are very busy saving abandoned pets. Currently, they have 9 dogs and 9 cats. A lot of their resources go to the care of these pets.

My SIL is also afraid of pain. She is scared by the thought of pregnancy.

Both have concerns about world population

Ironically, they would be wonderful parents. They are both very lovely people who have just become very distracted by the world. They are both away from the Church–completely indifferent.

Please pray for my dear brother and SIL.

Actually the saving abandoned pets sounds like a very very noble cause to me! And what is wrong with norweigan folk music?

 

[Ruthie]

It would be really really sad if you wake up one day, your fertility is gone, and THEN you realize how much you really did want to be a mom

Listen to Malia. She is right.

I didn’t have children in my fertile years because my mother indoctrinated me, from day one. She discouraged me from playing with dolls, and from anything even close to dreaming about weddings. She confessed this to me before she died, because she regretted it, and wished she had a grandchild from me and DH. But by then it was too late. (He and I married when I was perimenopausal.)

She told me that having my sister and me ruined her life, and she didn’t want me to ruin mine. Gee, thanks, Mom.

I am happy with my life, and try not to hold it against her, because I know there was love behind it.

But - the thought of my husband’s face, holding his newborn child… I wish I could see that. You should have seen him with my niece’s new twins.

So that’s a regret I live with every day.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[Salonika]

The proper upbringing of children is so important, that it should only be entrusted to people who are wholeheartedly deicated to the task.

Couples who do not want children, should not, in my view, be encouraged to have them, as their commitment to parenthood would not be strong.

Better for those with a vocation to be parents, to be the ones who will raise the next generation.

Magickman, agree with your post wholeheartedly. Good summary.

Also I don’t agree with people who say that you would immediately become committed to parenthood if the child was your own flsh and blood. Yes, it happens but it can be tragic for the child if it doesn’t happen.

 

[Salonika]

**I think they would be being selfish to God Himself. He created our sexuality/fertility/marriage and commanded us to be fruitful and multiply.

It is perfectly ok for a single person to decide they are not called to the vocation of marriage/parenthood. But to get married and then deny the fruits of that marriage is where the selfishness comes in. It is basically telling God that His design is flawed so you’d rather do it your way… QUOTE]

I’m curious why some people make a distinction regarding selfishness and not having children ie not getting married isn’t selfish but marrying and not having children is. Also why others’ don’t make a distinction considering both selfish.

In my twenties and thirities I was sometimes “lectured” (or it felt to me like I was being lectured) about how selfish it was not to say “yes” to a man who wanted to marry me.

Later some people assumed that selfishness was why I hadn’t married and had children and lectured me on what they considered were the disadvantages this has led to - me remaining selfish and often the fact my parents wouldn’t have grandchildren (I am an “only”).**

 

[Appleby]

The proper upbringing of children is so important, that it should only be entrusted to people who are wholeheartedly deicated to the task.

Couples who do not want children, should not, in my view, be encouraged to have them, as their commitment to parenthood would not be strong.

Better for those with a vocation to be parents, to be the ones who will raise the next generation.

I agree. I hear so many people who had children because of the continual nagging of their parents or the parents of their spouses, who admit they did not want them and cannot cope with them. How can the children not know that they are a burden.

Then there is the question of who would look after all the abandoned children, those left behind when the parents have divorced or one spouse has died, or somebody has lost a job or developed a life-threatening illness – not to mention the fact that in towns like this one it will cost you $250,000 to purchase a 339 square foot matchbox condo on the 61st floor and you are very likely to lose your job the next day – we lose about 1,000 jobs a month in this province – and a single family home with a yard would cost you $500,000. Where are you going to put those kids?

I believe that it might be a good idea for people to stop the everlasting whining that everybody else would be 100% happy if only they would do exactly what the whiner does. I know you love playing the tuba, but would the world really be a better place if everybody played the tuba?

 

[yellowbicycle]

That’s how my kids’ dad got twins!

I was forced to use ABC during my prot marriage.

God knew my heart. My friends knew my agony.

God blessed me with twins too!
It’s a major part of my conversion story!

My twins are part of my conversion story, too! There’s just something about TWO (or more!) babies showing up that maybe makes you realize what a miracle they are. See how thick-headed we are? Everyone else figures it out with ONE baby, but we needed TWO, y’know, to drive home the message. Sheesh!

I don’t want children!

(Oooh, does this work for husbands, too?!) I don’t want a husband!

You’ve sealed your fate now!
Not sure if it works for husbands, and if you can handle two babies AND two husbands, you’re a better woman than me!

 

[leonie]

Actually the saving abandoned pets sounds like a very very noble cause to me! And what is wrong with norweigan folk music?

That’s fine to rescue abandon pets. I don’t disapprove. But, they’ve chosen to do this work instead of having kids. Which is more Godly?

Norweigian folk music is very lovely and my SIL is extremely talented. But, I disagree that it is more important than bring children into the world. Also, she spent two years studying it in Norway, separated from my brother—I think that is a selfish thing for a wife to do. My brother allowed this because he didn’t want a divorce. He also paid for her school/living expenses/travel. It was their choice, but I think it reflects a self centeredness on her part, anyway.

It’s just the difference between a secular viewpoint and a Christian viewpoint.

Animals are more worthy than children

Pursuing a career/interest is more important than children.

It would be better for them to incorporate their passions with God’s intent that marriage is to be open to giving life.

 

[Calliso]

That’s fine to rescue abandon pets. I don’t disapprove. But, they’ve chosen to do this work instead of having kids. Which is more Godly?

Norweigian folk music is very lovely and my SIL is extremely talented. But, I disagree that it is more important than bring children into the world. Also, she spent two years studying it in Norway, separated from my brother—I think that is a selfish thing for a wife to do. My brother allowed this because he didn’t want a divorce. He also paid for her school/living expenses/travel. It was their choice, but I think it reflects a self centeredness on her part, anyway.

It’s just the difference between a secular viewpoint and a Christian viewpoint.

Animals are more worthy than children

Pursuing a career/interest is more important than children.

It would be better for them to incorporate their passions with God’s intent that marriage is to be open to giving life.

I would say neither is more godly then the other and it depends what your calling is. Maybe God called them to rescue abandoned animals? I mean someone has to do it…and we can;t realistically expect just single people to do that can we? As for his wife spending two years away from her husband…from the way you put it hear it sounds like he wasn;t too thrilled about that and was kinda forced into it. IN that case yes I would say in that particular incident she was selfish. That doesn;t necessarily mean that stuff like that is always selfish. And what about people in ministry or the medical field or what not…that chose to travel around the world and help people? Many of these people are married and having kids makes their jobs even harder then they already are. Really though I just disagree that being married automatically means your calling is to have kids…that would be like saying if your single you should be a nun or priest.

Now could they probably incorporate kids with their work? Yes they could I just donlt think it should be a requirement if they donlt want to.

 

[Appleby]

I think some of you are confusing self-centred with selfish – selfish really means concerned most with your own well-being, as opposed to the well-being of a large crowd of meddlers, busybodies, buttinskis and other nosy parkers who always think it is their supreme right to tell you that you will be much happier if only you obey their every command.

People are still telling me that when I am old (news flash: I am 60. Isnt that old?) I will be sorry I did not marry and buy property and give birth. I usually counter by saying that one day really soon when they are covered with spit up and sitting in the middle of a nice restaurant watching their toddler scream and seing the maitre d approaching their table with Bums Rush written all over his face, that they will be sorry they never saw the sun set over the Amalfi Drive through the windscreen of a Lamborghini Diablo … or that they never sat on a hilltop at Mulsanne Corner at midnight and watched the glowing brake discs of a Bentley gearing down into Indianapolis – or sitting atop a $250,000 motor home that belongs to someone else sipping champagne and playing Guess Whats Coming Next by engine note alone … or leaning on the rail of a survey ship heading through the Straits of Magellan on a crisp afternoon with icebergs and mountains looming and the comfortable assurance that there are six buffets calling your name just down the gangway …

Selfish, my foot. How about those selfish people who have children and expect me, the taxpayer, to fed, clothe, shelter, educate, entertain, jail, medicate and buy Christmas presents for as many kids as they can manage to birth? How about the 45 years of school taxes extorted from me so America can rear three generations of kids who think LOL is a word?

 

[Kaninchen]

I think some of you are confusing self-centred with selfish – selfish really means concerned most with your own well-being, as opposed to the well-being of a large crowd of meddlers, busybodies, buttinskis and other nosy parkers who always think it is their supreme right to tell you that you will be much happier if only you obey their every command.

That has got to be one of the most sensible things I’ve read at CAF.

 

[Salonika]

Appleby:

I think some of you are confusing self-centred with selfish

I’ve always wondered why being self centred has such a bad name. I think it’s the quality that allows us to act unselfishly when this is approrpriate.

To me being self centred involves knowing ourselves, our strengths and weaknesses, it means making our own decisions. It allows us to consider the needs of others and take them into account. It allows us to deal with people who consider that they know us better than we know ourselves with honesty and charity and to do the same with those who think everyone must follow the same path.

Appleby:

People are still telling me that when I am old (news flash: I am 60. Isnt that old?) I will be sorry I did not marry and buy property and give birth.

Maybe you need to give them a biology lesson - 60 isn’t that old (I’m in that age range) in terms of lifespan but it is in terms of women giving birth.

Appleby:

Selfish, my foot. How about those selfish people who have children and expect me, the taxpayer, to fed, clothe, shelter, educate, entertain, jail, medicate and buy Christmas presents for as many kids as they can manage to birth? How about the 45 years of school taxes extorted from me so America can rear three generations of kids who think LOL is a word?

I am happy to pay taxes etc for the education and for health services of children (and for other services I will never use) but I do resent being told that because I have not had children I have not contributed to the next generation.

 

[gmarie21]

Could somebody explain to me how ‘selfish’ comes into the argument?

This is more to everyone, but since your question was the shortest and simplest, I thought I’d quote it. A few years back, our deacon was giving the homily on Father’s Day (he’s a father of 5). He specifically stated that those who purposefully choose to not have children are, indeed, selfish. It was harsh, yes, but truthful.

The reality is that there are two classifications of selfishness, imho, regarding this issue. The both come down to the idea that children “cramp” their livestyles and what THEY want to do with their lives. And, within my own family, I have enough family members who view children this way, even their own children (one cousin said that a day with her boys is perfect birth control for anyone, and another cousin agreed). There are the married adults who choose to purposefully avoid children via many contraceptive means (including contraceptive mentality toward NFP) because they still want to “live their lives” (as many I know have stated). Then there are the adults who have children for the “status” reason yet neglect those same children. Again, the neglect is because the children are “too much work” or “cramp their style”.

Some posters here are from WONDERFUL Catholic families who are focused on God’s purposes for marriage. Many of us, are not from similar families. Heck, my dad makes more than 8x my salary and when he and my step-mom had moved to the East Coast, he asked her to stay home to be with the children. She became bored and felt that she was “wasting” her intellect by being home with her children. Most women on CA, I believe, would give anything to have the opportunity that she had, to stay home and be there for everything (I know that I would). I know many mothers and fathers, from working in daycare, who feel the exact same way as my step-mom (their husbands make a solid income and the mom’s don’t work, but still bring their children to daycare so that they can have time for themselves every week, a few days, every week).

 

[gmarie21]

I believe that it might be a good idea for people to stop the everlasting whining that everybody else would be 100% happy if only they would do exactly what the whiner does. I know you love playing the tuba, but would the world really be a better place if everybody played the tuba?

If someone isn’t called to parenthood, I understand and I don’t beleive that everyone should be married either. Heck, I think a lot more people are running away from callings to the religious life or single life than we can even imagine.

But I also believe that people, if they do not desire children, should be open and honest with their love interest before going down the aisle (many lie about their desire, thus causing problems in a marriage). To those who’ve read my posts in the past (way past) they’ll know that my dd is a result of an affair. Her dad is now divorced and going through the annulment process, but his ex-wife stated hesitantly that she wanted children (he was always open about his desire to have a big family) in fear of losing him and being alone. Well, after 7 years of marriage (and contraception) she still didn’t want to have children because of finances (however, they didn’t stop shopping for many unnecessary things for themselves - he had a LOT of debt to pay after their divorce). Well, our dd is his first and only child. Had she been honest about not wanting children, then they wouldn’t have married.

I have a cousin who also recently divorced. Her ex-husband wanted children. She’s one who gave the lip service about wanting children, but after the "I Do"s were said, she was never “ready” because she wouldn’t be able to do what she wanted with children around. Again, had she been honest with her ex they both could have avoided a lot of pain and years by not marrying and going their seperate ways before walking down the aisle.

I’m sure I’ll be criticized for sharing my example, as well as my cousin’s example, but these are not as rare as many think (or maybe my family is that messed up). Oh, and as others have stated, sometimes its our children who bring us back to the faith. I know that my dd did, in a HUGE way!!! A perfect example of how sometimes God allows us to sin in order for a greater good to happen.

 

[Appleby]

In today’s illiterate world, I suppose you’d say “self-centric” instead of self-centred; that is, a self-centred person is one who believes the entire world revolves around her and what she wants. A selfish person is one who is concerned first with her own well-being – that is, one who knows herself well enough so that when someone says she’d be much happier if she dropped her class in piano and took up jogging, she can say “I have found that jogging destroys the knees and my family are prone to develop arthritis” in a regretful voice that closes the subject. Or, in my case, when someone tells me that I will be sorry some day that I didn’t get married, I ask her how many times SHE has been married and invariably it is more than once.

 

[Kaninchen]

He specifically stated that those who purposefully choose to not have children are, indeed, selfish. It was harsh, yes, but truthful.

To me, it still comes down to the question of who is supposed to be ‘suffering’ as the result of the ‘selfishness’ and I don’t see, if both parties don’t want children, who is suffering as a result of the supposed ‘selfishness’.

The both come down to the idea that children “cramp” their livestyles and what THEY want to do with their lives.

Who are they being selfish toward?

And, within my own family, I have enough family members who view children this way, even their own children (one cousin said that a day with her boys is perfect birth control for anyone, and another cousin agreed). There are the married adults who choose to purposefully avoid children via many contraceptive means (including contraceptive mentality toward NFP) because they still want to “live their lives” (as many I know have stated). Then there are the adults who have children for the “status” reason yet neglect those same children. Again, the neglect is because the children are “too much work” or “cramp their style”.

Even as a little girl, I had the idea that I’d have two children when I grew up (just like my mother). I married a man who, similarly, had the idea that he’d like two children as well - I would not have married a man who wanted no children, nor one who wanted many children.

We went on to have two children. I’ve been a SAHM, I’ve worked part-time around their lives (I could because of my profession and my husband could help out because of his).

To whom have we been ‘selfish’ in not having more children?