Are couples so selfish these days that they won't have kids

[mswood]

I personally feel it is more selfish to have children that you don’t want. A couple that has kids only because they are “suppose” to have kids or because of family or society preasure may end up resenting the children and end up not being the loving and engaged parents that all children deserve.

Yes, I believe all children are blessings, and I hope to someday be blessed with children. I also that think that people that don’t truly want children and don’t see children as blessings are better off not having children.

 

[Salonika]

I applaud those who know themselves well enough to honestly say: “I don’t want to be a parent. I would not be good at it.” I can’t think of anything more damaging or hurtful to a kid than to have your mother or father look at you, even if in a moment of anger, and say “I NEVER wanted you” and know that they mean it.

or to be told “you have spoilt my life.”

A withdrawal of the comment does not withdraw the hurt given. And being told that you should not have taken taken the comment seriously adds to, not takes away, the damage.

 

[SD_Catholic]

Why do people never have children? Because children are annoying. I don’t say this to be mean, because plainly and simply if you like them, feel free to have them. But whiny, bratty, FIGHTING children are all I ever grew up around, (so yes, I DO know what they are like) and I do not share my prolific parents’ starry-eyed-ness about the beauty of God’s plan. God’s plan, by the way apparently involved my parents having so many children that when hard times came around, we nearly lost the home (that was necessary to house so many of us). I am grateful for my siblings but that doesn’t mean I have to churn out my own brood.
And I for one, NEVER have an urge to have a baby, not at that time of the month, not at Christmas, not ever.
Before anyone bitches to me about not being open to life, and not being Catholic enough, I would like to state that being Catholic, I refuse to marry unless a miracle rains down from Heaven and I suddenly and irrevocably desire children (my favorite thing I heard on this subject has been that when I meet the right man that will “naturally” happen ) MY question on this topic is why do people get deliberately pregnant when they a) can’t afford basic necessities of life, like health insurance b) have more kids than they can control or emotionally provide for already or c) have to rely on their older children to “parent” their younger ones?

I doubt any good Catholic is going to tell you that you have to get married just to have kids. But I also think it’s probably tough for you to say at this point in your life how “open” you’ll be to children if you ever do find that right man, without ever experiencing that moment. That would probably be similar to saying what you would do if you suddenly knew you had 3 months to live… in that we can all predict and assume, but until we’re faced with the actual event we really don’t know.

Also a & b of your questions are both reasons that even the Church gives for NOT having children (aside from the part about health insurance being a necessity). question c sounds like more of a personal issue perhaps? (although I’m sure sometimes it is an actual problem)

SD

 

[CountrySinger]

I’m going to get my masters in Special Education for children with autism (yay!), and the first thing my mentor teacher said was “never have kids.” I can imagine, spending hours with children with special needs, and then heading home to your own children would be too hard. When I worked in a call center, I couldn’t stand talking on the phone when I was off. People needs breaks from their job, and need time to relax. If I had kids at home also, I would burn out within a year (which is very likely in Special Education even in the best circumstances). So I must be selfish? Because I want to work with the children who need it most, but won’t have kids of my own? Like my genes need to be replicated with my family history of heart problems, diabetes, depression, alcholism, and cancer.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

That’s fine to rescue abandon pets. I don’t disapprove. But, they’ve chosen to do this work instead of having kids. Which is more Godly?

Norweigian folk music is very lovely and my SIL is extremely talented. But, I disagree that it is more important than bring children into the world. Also, she spent two years studying it in Norway, separated from my brother—I think that is a selfish thing for a wife to do. My brother allowed this because he didn’t want a divorce. He also paid for her school/living expenses/travel. It was their choice, but I think it reflects a self centeredness on her part, anyway.

It’s just the difference between a secular viewpoint and a Christian viewpoint.

Animals are more worthy than children

Pursuing a career/interest is more important than children.

It would be better for them to incorporate their passions with God’s intent that marriage is to be open to giving life.

I’ve thought about this for a while, and am starting to wonder if modern parents, Catholic and otherwise, shouldn’t consider looking into the mirror when they wonder why people have stopped wanting children. I don’t know for sure, but could it be possible that not so many generations ago, the average child was reared to be better company than the average animal or hobby?

One enormous part of the reason that I & my wife neither have nor want children, and that many of our friends don’t, is that we’ve met astonishingly few examples who aren’t monstrous–I don’t use the adjective lightly. We see them grow up no better as people than you’d expect, and repeat the process with their own children. We’d likely be hauled into prison if we tried to rear them in a way that seemed likely to make decent men & women of them, and the prevailing mores of society, peer pressure, and weariness, would probably overcome our efforts anyway, making them just more rents in the edifice of civilization, with us as accomplices.

Going even farther out onto the limb: people who don’t like and don’t want children aren’t imagining things. This post-'60s, pedocentric, angst-filled parenting style that considers “letting kids be kids” a virtue has done more to promote childlessness than any pill or condom could. I’ve held off making this argument for years, because the ad hominem counterarguments sort of write themselves (“You’re just trying to displace the blame!” “You’ve got false nostalgia, and rearing children have always been this way!”). Sigh … fire away. It’s obviously just me.

 

[Norseman82]

From what I’ve seen even here on CAF, the selfishness extends even earlier, to not wanting marriage/family. And all these posts about “not everyone is called to be parents”. Do we need God to open up the skies to give us permission to get married and have a family? I’m telling you, some of the comments here on CAF really reinforce how poorly catechized some Catholics are (and that is being charitable). Did not God say “it is not good for the man to be alone” and say “be fruitful and multiply”? Does not CCC 1603 state that the vocation to marriage is “written in to our very nature as it comes from the hand of our Creator” (unless one has a supernatural call to a celibate vocation, which the CCC furtehr qualifies as Holy Orders or consecrated life)? And must not marriage be open to life? Put two and two together, people. And if one does not feel that one has the skills/traits to be a good parent, WHY NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO ACQUIRE THEM? After all, do we not make the effort to gain skills to support ourselves in a trade or profession? WHY NOT DO THE SAME FOR BEING A PARENT?

Maybe it is not just selfishness, but also laziness.

That being said, the following is the only legitimate fear about being a parent that I have seen yet in this thread:

We’d likely be hauled into prison if we tried to rear them in a way that seemed likely to make decent men & women of them

I have gone through this in my head may times that if/when I become a father, I am menatlly preparing myself for the possibility that I may be hauled to court if I were to lay down Christian rules and expectations and actually enforce them or back them up (and no, I am not talking physical discipline).

 

[shannyk]

From what I’ve seen even here on CAF, the selfishness extends even earlier, to not wanting marriage/family. And all these posts about “not everyone is called to be parents”. Do we need God to open up the skies to give us permission to get married and have a family? I’m telling you, some of the comments here on CAF really reinforce how poorly catechized some Catholics are (and that is being charitable). Did not God say “it is not good for the man to be alone” and say “be fruitful and multiply”? Does not CCC 1603 state that the vocation to marriage is “written in to our very nature as it comes from the hand of our Creator” (unless one has a supernatural call to a celibate vocation, which the CCC furtehr qualifies as Holy Orders or consecrated life)? And must not marriage be open to life? Put two and two together, people. And if one does not feel that one has the skills/traits to be a good parent, WHY NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO ACQUIRE THEM? After all, do we not make the effort to gain skills to support ourselves in a trade or profession? WHY NOT DO THE SAME FOR BEING A PARENT?

Very astute observation and very good question!

Maybe it is not just selfishness, but also laziness.

Or maybe that how we ‘feel’ about things and what we’re naturally inclined towards in our temperaments etc. have become too much of a factor in discerning a vocation? to marriage or otherwise? It seems to be all about, I don’t feel, I don’t like, I’m not good with, being used as the test for what Gods plan is. It could be that through marriage and parenting God seeks to strengthen those weak areas that we all have.

That being said, the following is the only legitimate fear about being a parent that I have seen yet in this thread:

I have gone through this in my head may times that if/when I become a father, I am menatlly preparing myself for the possibility that I may be hauled to court if I were to lay down Christian rules and expectations and actually enforce them or back them up (and no, I am not talking physical discipline).

I think that a lot of parents have this fear.

 

[Salonika]

Norseman82:

From what I’ve seen even here on CAF, the selfishness extends even earlier, to not wanting marriage/family.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I think there are as many reasons as there are people for the decisions they make about marriage/children. Also I wonder why so many people make the assumption that those of us who decide against marriage and/or marriage and children are selfish and need to be made to see, what they consider the error of our ways. They don’t need to even know us but as soon as they know that we have chosen the single life (unless it is because we feel the call to the religious life) they know the reason - and that it is selfishness.

Did not God say “it is not good for the man to be alone” and say “be fruitful and multiply”?

Most unmarried people do not live the life of a hermit avoiding all human contact. Also many single people assist in the “be fruitful and multiply” by being aunts and uncles, by teaching and caring for the young.

And if one does not feel that one has the skills/traits to be a good parent, WHY NOT DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT TO ACQUIRE THEM? After all, do we not make the effort to gain skills to support ourselves in a trade or profession? WHY NOT DO THE SAME FOR BEING A PARENT?

I would hope that anyone considering becoming a parent would work on being a good parent and acquiring the skills required.

But do we suggest to someone joining the workforce that they take on a job that does not interest them, that they do not have the qualities required, that it will take them a lot of effort to do well. If we do we are setting them up for a difficult time - its the same in relation to having children. Skills may allow people to interact better with children on a short term basis but that’s not the same as caring for a child(ren) 24 hours a day, 52 weeks of the year.

Maybe it is not just selfishness, but also laziness.

Same comment as above.

I think that some people who cricitise those who do not want to have children often forget the effects on children of parents who do not want them (and tell them so) or those, no matter how much they try, will never be more than adequate parents.

Children brought up by parents who lack the ability/desire to be a good parent are giving their children a really bad start in life. How can you bring up your own children well if you have not been parented well. Sure such children will say "I will not treat my children the way my parents did. And many do that but it takes them a long time to find out and practice good parenting.

 

[CradleCath]

I think that selfishness is only a symtom here. My husband & I have raised 4 children & now have 8 Grandchildren. We found so much Joy in raising them & I still miss having a houseful… especially at mealtime. Our oldeest child is 48, second is 46, third is 45 & our “baby” is 42. We lived on a farm during their “growing up yrs”. Each child had responsibilities & chores to do that gave them the feeling of being part of a team, but we also included a lot of just plain fun…which they have given back to us hundredfold.

I remember marathon monopoly games when they were marooned at home on a snow day. The years of cub scouts & brownies with their pine car derbies & cookie sales. We have 3 boys & 1 daughter & I’ve sat on more bleachers than I can count, the boys LOVED SPORTS & our daughter was devoted to music.

As for raising kids today, all of our children have their own kids now & are pretty much teaching them the same values that they learned growing up…faith in God, a good work ethic, the importance of the parent’s involvement in the children’s activities, respect for others & self-discipline (you just ain’t gonna’ get everything you want).

I have found through my life that people usually find a way to get what they want, what they consider beautiful, what they find desirable, what they dream of having. It’s just that what they want, consider beautiful & desirable, irresistable, what they dream of having etc…**used **to be children. Now it’s a home, a new car, two T.V.'s, a cruise, etc., etc.
They are missing so much.