Are Drum Sets and Electric Guitars Ever Appropriate For Mass?

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Michael_Welter said:
Screamed words are unintelligible. So no, I would say it’s inappropriate. If you can understand the lyrics, then it’s not heavy metal. :rolleyes:
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As a heavy metal fan, I would say you don’t know what you’re talking about. I also would say no matter how much I like heavy metal, guitars and drums are in no way, shape or form appropriate for Mass.
 
Michael_Welter said:
Really? How does a bongo drum do anything? I seen musicians play the bongo drum, but I’ve never seen the bongo drum itself “thudding an extremely obnoxious modern song”. That must have been quite a site.

But seriously, is it possible that it was the way in which the drum was played that bothered you? Is it possible that it could be played in a reverent manner? Of course it could.

Musicians sitting on the altar? Seriously, where did you ever see that?
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I looked up online to see what type of drum they use and it’s some type of African drum. It is not used to accompany the music but “perform” (Basically it’s obnoxiously loud and can be clearly hear over everything.) This type of instrument could perhaps be played in a reverend manner, if it were part of the music as a whole.

As for the choir…
They were sitting in chairs on the alter, however they were nonetheless on the alter, and sitting during the consecration.
 
johnpaul2_fan said:
As for the choir…
They were sitting in chairs on the alter, however they were nonetheless on the alter, and sitting during the consecration.
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Apparently you don’t realize that the altar is the sacred table upon which the bread and wine are consecrated. No one sits “on the altar”. I suspect they were actually in the sanctuary.
 
Opps :o I don’t know what I was thinking, I know what the alter is but for some reason I typed alter. I meant the same part of the sanctuary as the alter. (Right next to the priests.)
 
Chris-WA said:
And we all know that the local bishops haven’t necessarily approved that type of music. The parish music groups do because they like it. They don’t ask permission from the bishop.
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I think having the bishop preside at a LifeTeen Mass is pretty well approval.
childofmary1143 said:
Good I was afraid I was the only one:thumbsup:
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You are most definitely not. Actually, my phonetics prof says that it’s actually impossible for us to make out the higher sounds because most of the harmonics simply skip over our intelligible range they’re so high.
 
I detest the use of electric guitars in mass. In all the cases I have heard it attempted, it was always done with no class or skill. The people involved seemed to try to compensate for their lack of skill by using songs no one had ever heard, and then playing very loudly and making liberal use of some sort of distortion.

Drum set such as are used in a rock band are also terrible.

On the other hand, an accoustic guitar or bass guitar can be used reasonably well in mass. Also, there are types of drums that can be used in mass if done so in a reasonable way (think tympany drums, as an example).

I have never heard a live piece of music performed using electric guitar, or a set of drums and cymbals, that would be suitable for the mass. Suitable for other modes of worship, yes, but not the mass. I did hear one recording of electric guitar that was OK perhaps for mass, but it was a re-do of a traditional piece, and it requires a very high level of skill and a very classy musician to be done in a way that is not painful for all involved.

Every time I go to mass and an electric guitar and drums are used, I feel like I am in an alien environment. I become tense, agitated, and distracted. Prayer becomes nearly impossible even in the quiet moments because the music is so jarring and unpleasant. No one sings except for those in the “praise band”. Few even bother to follow the words. Not even the youth group make any effort to join in. To make the matter worse, if you do pay attention to the words, it actually makes the songs worse. Sadly the words are just as bad as the musical composition, and the poor quality of the performance.

I don’t just base all of this on my own observations and feelings, but also those of my mother who has a master’s degree in music, taught music in Catholic schools for many years, and who sometimes served as a pianist, organist, or choir director in the parish when needed.

Music for mass should not be reduced to, “oh, they mean well, so it is OK if it is terrible…” Nor should it be an attempt to reproduce the latest trendy thing in the secular world. Nor should it be an adaptation of the latest Protestant praise and worship music.
 
Drums sets and guitars. I wish.

I just came back from church this morning where, to my horror, the choir has introduced conga drums, tambourines and wind chimes, yes wind chimes into their act.

I had to supress my laughter at one point because the people in the pews in front of me were turning around with this “what is that?” look on their faces as the band played on.

Can the felt banners, “cumbya” and the “social justice alliance” headed by the nun who dresses like Mike Ditka be far behind?

I guess forty years of plummeting attendance, sex scandals and parish closings hasn’t taught these people anything. But hey, that’s okay. When my parish church has closed and the land sold by the diocese to condo developers to pay more abuse claims at least I’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right in objecting to these ridiculous fads.
 
Chris-WA said:
I know we’ve covered this before, but I would like to hear why people think these instruments should ever be used in liturgical music at mass. It seems to me that these instruments are secular in nature, and that any time they are used in liturgical music they seem to “secularize” that music. Instead of sacred music you end up with something you would hear on a soft-rock radio station.
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Secular instruments? There is no instrument that is used solely as a “sacred instrument” so all instruments are used secularly.

A piano/organ is no more sacred then any other instrument. If you do not like the secularness of the instruments used then there should be no instrument used within the Liturgy.

There are no instruments used within the Liturgies of the Byzantine rite.
 
ByzCath said:
Secular instruments? There is no instrument that is used solely as a “sacred instrument” so all instruments are used secularly.

A piano/organ is no more sacred then any other instrument. If you do not like the secularness of the instruments used then there should be no instrument used within the Liturgy.

There are no instruments used within the Liturgies of the Byzantine rite.
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But the human voice is also used to make secular song…
 
VociMike said:
But the human voice is also used to make secular song…
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As I said, there is no such thing as a sacred or secular only instrument.

I have nothing against any instrument used in the Church, it just happens that the Byzantine rite uses nothing but the voice.
 
Having sung many acappela Masses from the Renaissance, I would love to sing instrumental Masses by Gabrielli or Monteverdi. Latin Rite Catholics have a long and rich heritage of Masses composed with use of intruments. The list of composers is awesome - Gabrielli, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Charpentier, Hayden, Mozart, Bruckner, Faure, Durufle…and on and on.

Given this rich heritage of music, why oh why, should we resort to electric guitars and drums? I have asked myself this question since 1965 (and, yes, I did indeed listen to this type of music in 1965. Not all of us were enamored of the Beatles). It is not the instrument in and of itself, it is the application of said instrument. My cathedral choir has used tambourines when singing “The King of Glory Comes” and a bodhran for Irish anthems. Tympani and brass for high holy days. A military bass drum for the entrance of the bishop and priests on Good Friday. Boom! Boom! Boom! It will send shivers down your spine.

The application of the instruments to the liturgy in these cases is of a quantum difference from using instruments to attract the young or to make the Mass “relevant”.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Having sung many acappela Masses from the Renaissance, I would love to sing instrumental Masses by Gabrielli or Monteverdi. Latin Rite Catholics have a long and rich heritage of Masses composed with use of intruments. The list of composers is awesome - Gabrielli, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Charpentier, Hayden, Mozart, Bruckner, Faure, Durufle…and on and on.
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I would LOVE to attend a Mass with the use of baroque music… but I think that’s very rare these days… and definitely not something found in my area (that I know of)… Though I imagine it would bring an even deeper richness to the Mass and to the hearts of those in attendance.

I agree that it’s not the instrument but the way it’s applied that must be taken into account.
 
ByzCath said:
As I said, there is no such thing as a sacred or secular only instrument.

I have nothing against any instrument used in the Church, it just happens that the Byzantine rite uses nothing but the voice.
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So are you saying that the only instrument they use is the voice or are you discounting the voice as an instrument?

The voice is most assuredly an instrument that is also used for both secular and sacred purposes. What exactly is your point?

Joe B
 
mom2three said:
I would LOVE to attend a Mass with the use of baroque music… but I think that’s very rare these days… and definitely not something found in my area (that I know of)… Though I imagine it would bring an even deeper richness to the Mass and to the hearts of those in attendance.

I agree that it’s not the instrument but the way it’s applied that must be taken into account.
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We only get to do it in concert setting. Now I do have a DVD with JPII celebrating in which the Mozart Coronation Mass with full ochestra was used. AWESOME!

We have over a thousand years of musical heritage in the Latin church. Why have we abandoned the rich heritage of our ancestors for electric guitars and drums?

Joe, David is trying to point out that in the Eastern churches they don’t use instruments, only the human voice. Which is fine - for the Eastern churches. Polyphony is our invention and we have been singing it for close to a thousand years.

Sure we could have kept it to just human voices. But our use of instruments gave rise to composer after composer and the world in general is incredibly richer for it. It’s not the use of drums or electric guitars - it is how they are used. And sadly, in my experience they are not used, but abused. Mass is not a rock concert. The Beatles, the Who, Haugen et al are not Mozart, Bruckner, or Durufle. This all started when I was a senior in high school back in 69. Just how liturgical are Simon and Garfunkle’s Bridge over Troubled Waters and Sounds of Silence - both of which I was forced to sing at my graduation Mass? Or Sons of God or And They’ll Know We Are Christians by Our Love? No drums, gratias Tibi Domine but the class one year before us didn’t have to sing this. The 100th and last graduating class of my Catholic all boys high school …We had a thousand years of music written specifically for the Latin church…a thousand years…and we had to sing drecht. I have never forgotten.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Joe, David is trying to point out that in the Eastern churches they don’t use instruments, only the human voice. Which is fine - for the Eastern churches. Polyphony is our invention and we have been singing it for close to a thousand years.
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Yes I understood that, but the human voice is an instrument and to say that it is not is incorrect. Especially if we are talking about singing but also to a degree in speaking. That they (Eastern Rite) don’t use other instruments is fine, but voice is still an instrument. Only one instrument is used in the Eastern Rite and that is Voice.

I understand completely that the potiential for abuse is greatly lessened due to the limit of a singular instrument. Let’s hope no-one introduces sprechstimme into the Eastern Rite! 😃

(just using that as an example to demonstrate that the voice IS an instrument)

Joe B
 
Or incorporating that Catholic priest who does rap!

21st century prayer derived from 10th century Europe:

O Lord from the fury of the rappers, preserve us!
 
JButky said:
So are you saying that the only instrument they use is the voice or are you discounting the voice as an instrument?

The voice is most assuredly an instrument that is also used for both secular and sacred purposes. What exactly is your point?

Joe B
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I do not know how to say it any clearer than I have.

There is no such thing as a “sacred” or “secular” instrument.

As for the Byzantine rite, only the voice is used, no musical instruments are used.
 
JButky said:
Yes I understood that, but the human voice is an instrument and to say that it is not is incorrect. Especially if we are talking about singing but also to a degree in speaking. That they (Eastern Rite) don’t use other instruments is fine, but voice is still an instrument. Only one instrument is used in the Eastern Rite and that is Voice.

I understand completely that the potiential for abuse is greatly lessened due to the limit of a singular instrument. Let’s hope no-one introduces sprechstimme into the Eastern Rite! 😃

(just using that as an example to demonstrate that the voice IS an instrument)

Joe B
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Yes it is true that the voice can be considered a musical instrument, in common usage it is not said to be one.

I never claimed that it wasn’t.

Within this thread we can see when the words “musical instrument” are used it is to describe a physical object that’s sole use is as a musical instrument. The voice is use for much more than that.

That is unless one wishes to do nothing more than argue some point.

My bringing up the Byzantine rite was to show that no (physical object) musical instrument is necessary.

My main arguement is that there is no such thing as a “secular” musical instrument. Of which the voice proves as the voice has been, and is, used in many profain ways.
 
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