Are Eastern Catholics to look to the Eastern Orthodox for patristic guidance?

[dvdjs]

Found the links for you. Here is the site for Krindatch’s study. Table 2 shows growth of membership and its source over the last decade. Growth, here, is measured in members (also parishes), rather than monasteries/seminaries, which obviously - and intriguingly - are not the strength of the Antiochian church. Table 3 examines some aspects of integration into American culture, e.g., relative amount of English used.

The site also details methodology used. It is fair to question the methodology - although simply stating that you are not convinced is not really a question. However, their study surely affords a better overall comparison than does a few examples from a single denomination. And yes, the truth of my comment hinges on the accuracy of this study. I think it’s the best available data and that I have represented it fairly.

 

[sodak]

Amen!

IF someone visits my Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, the only way they should be able to know that they are in a Catholic Church rather than an Eastern Orthodox Church not in union with Rome, is that we pray for the Pope in our litanies, and we have a picture of Benedict XVI in our entry way.

By going back to our authentic traditions, we are not only turning back to the practice we had at the time of Brest and Uzhorod, but we are obeying the Magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church. The Second Vatican Council and several popes, including Pope Leo XIII and John Paul II, have enjoined us to recover our authentic traditions. John Paul II even inserted Saint Gregory Palamas, a post schism Saint, on our calendar, and we commerorate him Second Sunday of Great Lent.

We are truly Orthodox in union with the Holy See of Rome, sharing the same substantial faith with our Roman Rite brethren, but expressing it differently liturgically and even theologically.We should by all means be able to look to our Orthodox brethren for their understanding of the Fathers. The Church Fathers as commonly understood range from Clement of Rome, 1st century, to St. John Damascene 8th century. They are the common patrimony of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

As my friend Gordon says, we Greek Catholics are Orthodox in Worship, Catholic in Love.

Amen! As a cradle Roman Catholic, I love the richness and history of the Orthodox, and their knowledge of the Fathers. There is much to learn and appreciate, and I’m always grateful when it is shared - especially on these forums!

 

[lanceg]

Amen! As a cradle Roman Catholic, I love the richness and history of the Orthodox, and their knowledge of the Fathers. There is much to learn and appreciate, and I’m always grateful when it is shared - especially on these forums!

Thank you Sodak!

I appreciate your openess not only to your Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters, but to the Orthodox. This kind of love and understanding among all of us in the laity is important for the hope of reunion with the separated Eastern Churches.

 

[Alexius]

Thank you Sodak!

I appreciate your openess not only to your Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters, but to the Orthodox. This kind of love and understanding among all of us in the laity is important for the hope of reunion with the separated Eastern Churches.

I second that!

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Found the links for you. Here is the site for Krindatch’s study. Table 2 shows growth of membership and its source over the last decade. Growth, here, is measured in members (also parishes), rather than monasteries/seminaries, which obviously - and intriguingly - are not the strength of the Antiochian church. Table 3 examines some aspects of integration into American culture, e.g., relative amount of English used.

The site also details methodology used. It is fair to question the methodology - although simply stating that you are not convinced is not really a question. However, their study surely affords a better overall comparison than does a few examples from a single denomination. And yes, the truth of my comment hinges on the accuracy of this study. I think it’s the best available data and that I have represented it fairly.

As an aside, the growth that is often lauded - and in fact I support their efforts - is growth in clergy and missions using a methodology that would leave many of our Greek Catholic hierarchs uncomfortable.

About 55 minutes from me, the offices of The Coming Home Network can be found in Zanesville, OH. It assists clergy of non-Catholic communities who are in the process of becoming Catholic. (And in fact there are hundreds of them out there that have made or are making that journey.)

If today our bishops made it known that should these men and their families enter the Church via the East, presbyteral ordination was a real possibility without making a fuss of the Pastoral Provision (which technically does not apply to Evangelicals and the like) we could have 20 men in formation tomorrow. Question is, where do you put them, how do you support them?

If it was made known that correspondance programs online and a body of clergy who were expected to support themselves were to become a norm in the BCC… We might similarly benifit.

Canon law is pretty clear that the Church is obligated to support them and their families. Additionally it has been explained to me that a nuance of canon law (with which I agree) is that you have no rights to sign away your rights. That is to say it would not be possible to say “Don’t worry, I don’t need a salary and will never ask for one, I waive my right to support.” You can’t waive it. And this is good, it precludes coercion or the creation of a class of people with fewer rights. (Think of it as being like minimum wage. You can’t tell your employer and the state, it is OK, you will work for $3.00 an hour!)

This was an issue with an Orthodox priest who approached our bishop to be incardinated assuring the bishop that he would not be asking for a salary, he would just like to be rostered and be permitted to concelebrate DL or occasionally fill in for Father when he is away… Again though, should his circumstances change, and his secular employment come to an end, he would have the right to demand an assignment and an income from the eparchy. Our church operates on a $12K a month budget, we simply don’t have that.

Locally the AOC mission was created out of a faction coming from a schism in the OCA mission. The priest was a clergyman in another denomination who did online coursework in leui of sem training, and is now an unpaid bi-vocational (he has a day job) priest for a small mission that meets at the Greek Catholic parish.

If we were to adopt such an operating model, the opportunities to ordain great numbers of men to the priesthood who in turn were told to support themselves and start their own missions… Well we could demonstrate clerical and mission growth as well.

This model has distinctive problems that could easily constitute trading in our “old issues” for new ones.

Today, they (OCA) have more parishes and priests, but what is the ratio of clergy to parishes, or membership to parishes or clergy to membership? Do more clergy and parishes mean the OCA has grown? Good hard numbers that I trust have been hard to come by. But some of what I am seeing is leading me to indicate that they have mostly maintained the number of laity in levels we have.

With some total 1026 clergy listed in the last year book, 197 of them deacons, 829 priests

Using the Hartford Institute’s estimated membership of 39,000

(per: hirr.hartsem.edu/research…earch/tab2.pdf)

You get -
ratio of clergy to laity: 38.01
ratio of priests to laity: 47.04
39,000 / 456 parishes = 85.52 members per parish

Using Fr. Jonathan Ivanoff’s estimated membership of 27,196

You get -
ratio of clergy to laity: 26.50
ratio of priests to laity: 32.85
27,196 / 456 parishes = 59.64 members per parish

PERSONALY, I think the number of faithful who are active by even the least of standards is probably closer to 15,000. Yes, that’s right. I think that about 1 out of every 15 members of the OCA is a priest, deacon of bishop.

(YES, some of those priests are retired. Accounting for that could make some numbers look better, some numbers look worse.)

Where the OCA has grown, has been in their ethnic diocese – through immigration.

 

[dochawk]

IF someone visits my Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, the only way they should be able to know that they are in a Catholic Church rather than an Eastern Orthodox Church not in union with Rome, is that we pray for the Pope in our litanies, and we have a picture of Benedict XVI in our entry way.

We also note on our sign at the entrance that we’re in Communion with the Pope of Rome . . .

hawk

 

[mardukm]

I voted “no, definitely,” but upon some thought, I wish I could have changed it to “no, but” I believe there are some developments within Eastern Orthodoxy that are not patristic that Eastern Catholicism can do without. However, Eastern Orthodoxy DOES have its patristic elements (and many of them) and Eastern Catholicism should be proud to carry on these particular Traditions.

 

[Claudius]

I have already voted and stated my opinion but as I slowly learn more about the Eastern Catholic churches this question has stayed in the back of my mind and I would like to comment again.

First, the question itself is limited to the the experiance of Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches. Even there alone I still say the answer is no. There are a large number of Byzantinve Rite Catholics and I see no reason that they shouldn’t look to each other for guidence. We certainly much respect them enought to be about to run their own churches. They do not have to remain in lock step pace with the churches that they are not in communion with. Nor would I as a Latin Catholic look to a sedevacantist for guidence since some of them have started ordaining women.

If a Byzantine Rite Catholic does need to look outside of the Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches, they should look to the other Eastern Catholic Churches or either the Syrian, Armenian, or Coptic Rites. Whe all is said and done, there is nothing wrong with them looking to the Latin Rite either. There is certainly nothing wrong with the Latin Rite, and just as I have developed a greated respect and love for the older Latin form coming out of my study of the East, certainly it can work both ways.

We certianly want to be at peace with the mirrors of the Catholic Churches. We should cooperate and heal the wounds of our seperation as best we can but on internal Church matters, Catholic should seek out Catholic and if the Eastern Orthodox knew what was best, they would be seeking out the Byzantine Rite Catholics for guidance. I would seek out a Maronite, or a Coptic Catholic or a Ukranian Catholic before I would ever call SSPX. Even though I am fluent in Latin, I would learn Aramaic and Slovonic before I submitted to a preist who is acting illicitly.

 

[lanceg]

I have already voted and stated my opinion but as I slowly learn more about the Eastern Catholic churches this question has stayed in the back of my mind and I would like to comment again.

First, the question itself is limited to the the experiance of Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches. Even there alone I still say the answer is no. There are a large number of Byzantinve Rite Catholics and I see no reason that they shouldn’t look to each other for guidence. We certainly much respect them enought to be about to run their own churches. They do not have to remain in lock step pace with the churches that they are not in communion with. Nor would I as a Latin Catholic look to a sedevacantist for guidence since some of them have started ordaining women.

If a Byzantine Rite Catholic does need to look outside of the Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches, they should look to the other Eastern Catholic Churches or either the Syrian, Armenian, or Coptic Rites. Whe all is said and done, there is nothing wrong with them looking to the Latin Rite either. There is certainly nothing wrong with the Latin Rite, and just as I have developed a greated respect and love for the older Latin form coming out of my study of the East, certainly it can work both ways.

We certianly want to be at peace with the mirrors of the Catholic Churches. We should cooperate and heal the wounds of our seperation as best we can but on internal Church matters, Catholic should seek out Catholic and if the Eastern Orthodox knew what was best, they would be seeking out the Byzantine Rite Catholics for guidance. I would seek out a Maronite, or a Coptic Catholic or a Ukranian Catholic before I would ever call SSPX. Even though I am fluent in Latin, I would learn Aramaic and Slovonic before I submitted to a preist who is acting illicitly.

Claudius,

with the the thinking expressed here, you will exasperate, not heal the wounds between the churches .

You apparrently do not understand the very rich heritage of all the Eastern Churches, be they Byzantine, Syrian, Chaldean, Coptic, Armenian, or any other Rite.

As Byzantine or Greek Catholics, we are going to have more in common with Eastern Orthodox Churches than we will with our sister Catholic Churches, for example, such as Chaldean, Syro-Indian, Ethiopic.

Our liturgy is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Churches, our Litrugy of the Hours, our feast days, the saints venerated on our calendars, our way approaching theology.

In the same way, Catholic Copts are going to have more in common with the Orthodox Copts, same goes for the Ethiopians, Armenians, etc. The Chaldean Catholics are going to have more in common with the Assyrian Church of the East, so it is not surprising that they are now seeking union with each other, and the Assyrians, with the Holy See.

I am frankly weary of Catholics who think that they are more Catholic than the Pope. It is the Popes and the Council that have exhorted us to recover our authentic heritage, and to de-Latinize our liturgical and ecclessial life. It is Benedict who has said that the Orthodox lack very little that would allow them full Eucharistic communion with the See of Peter.

You should finally know, that our Byzantine Catholic Bishops, priests and lay people in the Soviet era suffered horrendous persecution because they would not renounce their union with the Chair of Peter. All they would have had to do in most cases was pledge allegiance to the Orthodox Church, and to an Orthodox Bishop, and they would not have suffered what they did.

The Greek Catholic Church was liquidated in Soviet Ukraine, and our priests and bishops and nuns in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Carpatho-Ruthenian Church suffered, gulags, torture and martyrdom.

And yet, leading up to the terrible tribulation of our Church, many of our Bishops were working in Ukraine to restore authentic Byzantine liturgical tradition to the Church, which had been heavily Latinized. Andrew Sheptitskyj, who passed away just before the worst persecution took place, researched old Orthodox Church books to get a sense of how we should be celebrating our liturgy properly. Bishop Vasyl Velychkovsky also sought to bring our liturgies into conformity with venerable Byzantine Practice, and helped win many Orthodox to the Catholic Church.

My friend, there is a lot you do not know about the history of our Churches, the development of them, the development of doctrine, the historical, political and cultural circumstances that influenced the life our Churches and their development are complex. Many times in our history, Latinizations were forced upon our Churches, sometimes with state power, as in Hungary.

I am glad we have had Popes like John Paul and Benedict, who understand and honor authentic Eastern traditions, and lay no further burdens on us than fidelity to the Holy See.

 

[sodak]

I hope and pray that the Schism will be repaired within my lifetime. I’ve been to Russia twice, and have had the privilege of going through several beautiful Cathedrals. People coming in all the time, praying in front of icons, it was very, very interesting and beautiful at the same time.

I would love to go back and learn some more, and sit through an Orthodox liturgy. I suspect to have a deeper appreciation of the Liturgy, one must first learn about the culture. It’s difficult to take off my “western colored” glasses, but always worth the effort when I’ve been able to do it.

I’m very heartened that both Pope JP2 and Benedict have been welcoming to our Eastern brethren.

 

[Claudius]

Well the question here is about looking for guidence. Catholics should look to Catholic for guidence. I fully support the Eastern Catholic churches to retain their traditions. They are very good and wonderful traditions that have taught me a greater respect for Catholic Tradition. A Byzantine Catholic Church is a Catholic church and their traditions are Catholic traditions. The Catholic Church wants all of our local churches to retain our authentic heiritage and traditions.

I pray that the schism will be healed and I agree that the Eastern Churches will have a lot in common with their mirrors but that is a different issue. Eastern Catholic churches should retain their Eastern Catholic traditions that have always been part of the Catholic Church and were never abrogated. I do not agree at all that an Eastern Catholic should go into submission to a bishop not in communion with the Catholic church. That just doesn’t make any sense.

Eastern Catholics should look to their own Eastern Catholic Church for guidence. If they can’t do that then they should look to the other Catholic churches of the same Rite, then to other Eastern Catholic churches and then to the Latin Rite.

Yes, I want the schisms to end but that does not mean that Eastern Catholics should be abandoned by by the Church to those without the full teachings of Jesus. They are not a barganing chip for ecumenism, they are faithful Catholics. Eastern Catholic churches are not broken or deficient. They are wonderful and holy, lacking in nothing. They posses the fullness of the teachings of Jesus and the means of salvation.

There are the historical issues with the Soviets but the Eastern Catholics should be healing their Church not begging the non Catholics to take care of them, especially with the record of hate for Catholics that they have.

 

[lanceg]

Well the question here is about looking for guidence. Catholics should look to Catholic for guidence. I fully support the Eastern Catholic churches to retain their traditions. They are very good and wonderful traditions that have taught me a greater respect for Catholic Tradition. A Byzantine Catholic Church is a Catholic church and their traditions are Catholic traditions. The Catholic Church wants all of our local churches to retain our authentic heiritage and traditions.

I pray that the schism will be healed and I agree that the Eastern Churches will have a lot in common with their mirrors but that is a different issue. Eastern Catholic churches should retain their Eastern Catholic traditions that have always been part of the Catholic Church and were never abrogated. I do not agree at all that an Eastern Catholic should go into submission to a bishop not in communion with the Catholic church. That just doesn’t make any sense.

Eastern Catholics should look to their own Eastern Catholic Church for guidence. If they can’t do that then they should look to the other Catholic churches of the same Rite, then to other Eastern Catholic churches and then to the Latin Rite.

Yes, I want the schisms to end but that does not mean that Eastern Catholics should be abandoned by by the Church to those without the full teachings of Jesus. They are not a barganing chip for ecumenism, they are faithful Catholics. Eastern Catholic churches are not broken or deficient. They are wonderful and holy, lacking in nothing. They posses the fullness of the teachings of Jesus and the means of salvation.

There are the historical issues with the Soviets but the Eastern Catholics should be healing their Church not begging the non Catholics to take care of them, especially with the record of hate for Catholics that they have.

Claudius,

I appreciate your more conciliatory tone, but I think you are still not getting it.

No one is saying we should as Byzantine Catholics submit to an Orthodox Bishop. Why are you bringing that up? We are not abandoned. You are way off base here.

The original post is, Are Eastern Catholics to look to the Eastern Orthodox for patristic guidance?

In order to restore our authentic traditions, we can learn from the Orthodox, because we share the same heritage. It is that simple, no more, no less. It is simply a matter of historical study and research. The Orthodox have preserved much of the substance of the ancient Church.

Remember, the Second Vatican Council tells us that whatever graces God has given our separated brethren are for our edification as well. The Orthodox have the grace of valid Apostolic Succession, priesthood, and sacraments, and have done an admirable job of preserving their Patristic and Byzantine heritage.

As a Byzantine Christian, it makes sense to learn from them.

 

[antgaria]

Peace,

If I can speak from the point of view of a member of a community outside of full communion {God willing not for long} with the Catholic Church.

In terms of liturgy, The Chaldean Church of the East hierarchy is well aware of the treasure available to them from the Assyrian Church of the East in terms of liturgical practices that have been kept in defiance of “Latinization”. Yet, there have been changes over the period that are beneficial as well. So the job of the Catholic hierarchy is not to just completely drop their own practices and adapt what amounts to new ones for them. No. What they should do is what they have done. Their bishops and scholars researched their past, and also I would assume the ACoE practice. Then they made changes as appropriate, and according to the heart of the Vatican directives to explore their roots and be faithful to their own tradition.

Similarily, in terms of the saints and writings, they do well in researching them, and, when/where needed, defending or clarifying their teachings in light of their Orthodoxy.

The local Chaldean bishop, His Grace Mar Sarhad Jammo, is one man, who as priest and then as bishop, was very active in researching and specifying the Orthodoxy of the CotE fathers, and the validity of the CotE liturgy, even the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari which did not have an explicit Institution Narrative.

So, I guess, the debate really revolves around what guidance means. When necessary, the EC churches should not hesitate to inquire within the EO and their traditions, but, guidance as some understand it, implies a bit more, implies actively leading, in which case I think that the guidance should really come from their hierarchy, with thorough investigation of history, tradition, and even the faith of the faithful, and only with prayer and in the Holy Spirit… in which case there is no danger of splintering from the Catholic communion.

One last point that is maybe a bit OFF-topic… I am very much interested in St. Isaac of Nineveh. A “nestorian” bishop becoming a saint in the Orthodox traditions {Oriental and Eastern} is in itself somewhat interesting, but also interesting to me is that his writings were apparently edited and cleaned of references to “nestorian” fathers. I know a bit about a volume that was found that had references to “nestorian” figures, but as far as I can tell, it is not publically available, either in translation or in its original Syriac. If anyone knows where I can get my hand on it, it will be much appreciated…

It does kind of tie in to the topic of patristics from non-EC sources.

In Christ,
Anthony

 

[lanceg]

Dear Anthony, welcome!

Yes you are right, we are not all talking about the same thing when we are talking about “guidance.”

Will you be joining the Catholic Communion of Churches because of the impending union, or through your own conversion?

It has always interested me that St. Isaac is a Saint in other Churches despite his Nestorian heritage. Some theologians think that the Christological issues between Orthodox and Oriental Churches have been more about semantics than substance, but I do not understand the issues in depth enough to say.

I hope you can share with us your perspective!

 

[antgaria]

Dear Lance,

I am praying for and refering to the impending union which will make complete what was already there. I have a deep commitment to our community, its people and especially the youth who are the future, and will not leave it. But from the beginning we have never felt far removed from our brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church.

Perhaps this is because I grew spiritually into the Assyrian Church at a time when the CCD with Pope John Paul II had already been signed and started to bear fruit. Full communion with the Catholic Church was pretty much something that was only separated by having to work out some differences that arose over time of separation. I have posted in another thread about the position shown to Rome within our Tradition, so suffice it to say it was just a matter of ironing out what had kept us from each other.

I’m told by older people, that in the middle east, many traditionally did not make too much of the split and would go to each other’s Churches. I know one person that was originally baptised in an Orthodox Church, and would attend their Liturgy, and on another day of the week, he would attend ours. I was myself too young to have fasioned any opinion or impression before I left the middle east, but in the diaspora, I found the Assyrian Church certainly was receptive to allowing anyone from the other apostolic traditions to receive the Holy Qurbana.

It has always interested me that St. Isaac is a Saint in other Churches despite his Nestorian heritage.

I for some reason always had some kind of inkling about an interest in St. Isaac, I think that’s the easiest way to explain that. But, my interest was somewhat clarified when I looked into some Orthodox boards and forums and there was some people who were questioning how and whether he should be considered a saint. It seems that the monks and priests in the Orthodox Church were quick to come to his defense, and maintained that it was undeniable that he was a saint and had an undefiled view of heavenly things and that despite him being not in PHYSICAL communion with the Orthodox church.

What’s the interest? Well, the defense of St. Isaac sounds like this whole thing about the Church is not just the people who’s names are registered on the ledgers. It held a promise of something real and united between me and my community who are not officially tied in with the Catholic Church. And actually not just the Catholic Church… but other churches as well. After all, someone from a tradition accused of being “diophysites” was received as a saint by the Oriental churches accused of being “monophysites.”

Some theologians think that the Christological issues between Orthodox and Oriental Churches have been more about semantics than substance

I think this would take a thread on to itself to discuss. Short answer is “yes.” A bit of this was lightly touched on in the forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214992 thread. For example, in the Syriac speaking traditions, the exact meaning of qnuma and how it relates to kiana and parsoopa is quite at the center of the issues. I think if you look at the the works and the statements made, none of the traditions can really be accused of being what they have been accused of throughout the centuries. It will take a look into Ephesus, Chalcedon, St. John of Antioch and St. Cyril, and the recent scholarship and Pro-Oriente work to discuss this more.

I might be slightly biased, but I would say for the case of the Church of the East, look at Mar Bawai Soro’s book for more details on the orthodoxy of our Church.

One thing I have to say to finish my thoughts about how I’ve always considered ourselves kind of “Catholic, but not yet quite officially.” I also consider the other CotE traditions, and Syriac traditions as special family as well, including the Oriental Orthodox. We have to pray and work diligently until that unity and full communion is established between us. It’s not hopeless… St. Isaac became a saint even in the Oriental tradition… I believe God can heal the rift. We just need to be honest, humble, and truthful.

In Christ,
Anthony

 

[J.J]

Asking for clarification may be more helpful than paraphrasing in this manner.

I am not thrilled with the response myself, but I would like to know if I understand what he is meaning better.

Who cares what you Latins think. All you can do is blabber on about how you’d like female Priests, guitars at services, elevate the Blessed Mother as a “Co-Redeemer”, and generally become “neo-Catholic/Protestants”. The Ukrainians (and, by the way - I am a “True American” - Ukrainian father, Cherokee Mother) have allowed themselves to become quite Latinized in an attempt to become more “accepted” by Latins. What has it gotten them? Look at the posts – nothing but derision. You’ll never accept them as equals with Latins.
We Byzantines did without you for 500 years until the Pope agreed to honor our traditions and Liturgy. We can always do without you again.

 

[Ghosty]

Who cares what you Latins think. All you can do is blabber on about how you’d like female Priests, guitars at services, elevate the Blessed Mother as a “Co-Redeemer”, and generally become “neo-Catholic/Protestants”. The Ukrainians (and, by the way - I am a “True American” - Ukrainian father, Cherokee Mother) have allowed themselves to become quite Latinized in an attempt to become more “accepted” by Latins. What has it gotten them? Look at the posts – nothing but derision. You’ll never accept them as equals with Latins.
We Byzantines did without you for 500 years until the Pope agreed to honor our traditions and Liturgy. We can always do without you again.

Hmmm, your post just glows with Divine Love.

You do know that you’re addressing a fellow Byzantine in your post, don’t you?

Peace and God bless!

 

[SiempreFiel]

Who cares what you Latins think. All you can do is blabber on about how you’d like female Priests, guitars at services, elevate the Blessed Mother as a “Co-Redeemer”, and generally become “neo-Catholic/Protestants”. The Ukrainians (and, by the way - I am a “True American” - Ukrainian father, Cherokee Mother) have allowed themselves to become quite Latinized in an attempt to become more “accepted” by Latins. What has it gotten them? Look at the posts – nothing but derision. You’ll never accept them as equals with Latins.
We Byzantines did without you for 500 years until the Pope agreed to honor our traditions and Liturgy. We can always do without you again.

Now that’s what I call authentic Christian charity!!!

I’m just kidding brother!!!

Are you OK?!

 

[J.J]

Now that’s what I call authentic Christian charity!!!

I’m just kidding brother!!!

Are you OK?!

“Christian Charity”?? I’m simply pointing out the obvious – to note when the Latins deride their Eastern Brethren is not “lack of Christian Charity”, it’s merely moving facts to the forefront.
Remember what happens when you point out that “The Emperor has No Clothes”. But, of course, when we Eastern Catholics refer to “The Emperor”, we refer to Constantine; who knows in the case of Latins.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
J.J.

 

[Ghosty]

“Christian Charity”?? I’m simply pointing out the obvious – to note when the Latins deride their Eastern Brethren is not “lack of Christian Charity”, it’s merely moving facts to the forefront.
Remember what happens when you point out that “The Emperor has No Clothes”. But, of course, when we Eastern Catholics refer to “The Emperor”, we refer to Constantine; who knows in the case of Latins.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
J.J.

Actually you’re making negative generalizations about Latins, and writing off all Latin views. That isn’t pointing out when Latins deride their Eastern brethren, that’s just being rude and uncharitable.

If you want to confront a particular person about their poor behavior, by all means do so. To drag an entire Church into a litany of terrible accusations, most of which don’t even apply to even a significant minority of it, is calumny, and that’s in the list of sins against the Ten Commandments.

In the spirit of the Great Lent, I humbly recommend that you take this time to make peace with your brothers and sisters so that you can go up to the Altar of the Lord on Easter without anything holding you back.

Peace and God bless!