Are husbands the leaders of the family or when did it change?

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As I recall, Jesus delegated tasks to His followers, ensured that those tasks were accomplished, and instructed them. That is actual leadership. That is what St Paul instructs husbands to do.
 
I understand where you’re coming from as well as the comments by others. This is my .02:

In either 1 Cor. or Ephesians (I forget which one), St. Paul says that the head of the man is Christ, and the head of woman is the man.

So if the husband is subject to Christ, the wife will lovingly obey him. When the husband is NOT subject to Christ the wife in turn will not obey him.

FYI, the word “obedience” comes from the Latin ob-audiere - to listen carefully. So obedience is listening carefully.

Again, that’s my .02.
 
If families would stay in formation with each other then families would stay in formation with the Church and there would be less stepping out of authority all together. All in unison as one Body and one Church with the families like the domestic Church.

However the oppression is great and marriages are buckling without acknowledging that authority in the Husband as leader.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
I understand where you’re coming from as well as the comments by others. This is my .02:

In either 1 Cor. or Ephesians (I forget which one), St. Paul says that the head of the man is Christ, and the head of woman is the man.

So if the husband is subject to Christ, the wife will lovingly obey him. When the husband is NOT subject to Christ the wife in turn will not obey him.

FYI, the word “obedience” comes from the Latin ob-audiere - to listen carefully. So obedience is listening carefully.

Again, that’s my .02.
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Excellent way of putting it. And if he is not ‘subject to Christ’ but instead bandying about authority for motives like ego, selfishness or envy of the talents and abilities of the wife, then why should.she defer?
 
"In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

3 And let not your adornment be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands. 6 Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear."

If that is not sufficient, the advice of appealing to other believers and the Church hierarchy would apply.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
I usually don’t ask questions like this, but I feel compelled to ask, is this for real? In other words, are you serious or just stirring up controversy for fun?
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I think it’s a wind up. It’s the only thread in which ol’ Slim has posted. I’ll leave you guys to it.
 
As I’ve been saying for 6+ years, first there needs to be serious adult catechesis. Most Catholics stop getting catechized either after First Communion or Confirmation in the Latin Church. So if a RC got confirmed at age 15 and didn’t get married until age 25, that’s 10 years without any solid Catholic formation.

And pre-Cana doesn’t cut it imo. You can’t learn the 2000-year teaching of the Church on marriage and the family in one weekend.

At an absolute minimum, the prospective groom & bride should meet with the priest at least once a month (ideally every week or 2 weeks) to be properly formed in the Faith esp re marriage and the family.

As I’ve said before, if the prospective groom and bride have enough time to pick out the best tuxedo, wedding dress, caterer, DJ and everything else they ought to be able to spare time for the priest to teach them what they need to know before entering upon a new life together.
 
Slimdiggn said:
Honestly husbands are supposed to be the leaders of the family and treat their wives as equal importance to themselves. Somewhere between in the deviance of time that changed! What is going on why are men husbands not respected as leaders of the households anymore. This is a direct attack on the family by feminism. How to counter this ? How is a family going to last with no leader!? Or a challenge for leadership frequently. The culture vultures are rubbing off on catholic wives and causing women to act dominate!
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Put it this way - Jesus was head of His household, at least as an adult. Which included Mary.

Yet who is it out of the two who is ever described as being “subject” and “obedient” to.the other? (Hint: straight after the finding in the Temple). And who guided Whom into performing His first miracle at Cana?

Mary was the first and best feminist in tge truest sense of feminism, feminine but powerful in her own way and in her own right. And a leader, in a very real way.
 
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Marry out of Joyful obedience presented Jesus at the temple. I think our Blessed Mother is the image of obedience that we need.
 
When He was a child yes. At the Wedding Feast at Cana however, Mary does not give a command to Jesus. Instead, she tells others to listen to Him.

Strictly speaking, Eve was the first feminist. Her motive was equality motivated by envy.
 
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St. Joseph was the head of the house. Jesus and Mary willingly obeyed him.
 
Talk about pressure, being entrusted by God to lead the perfect woman and child.
 
Jesus is head of the Church and Mary is support of Christians.

A husband is leader of the family and the wife is I the image of Mary, queen, mother, virgin most powerful.
 
Irishmom2 said:
🍿 I think it’s that time again.
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😂
OP, I see that you joined us in July. Welcome! Be aware that this comes up from time to time (perhaps with a different lead question) and goes round the same arguments.

Such as…

Bible (on both sides)
Pope Pius XI (and other Popes and Catechisms)
“Servant leadership”
Changing roles of women since the biblical world
Relationships today
Feminism
etc…

And there’s little convergence until it comes up again.

I’m with you though and agree with your points in several posts.

To me the most important word from the Magisterium, historically, is:
  1. Domestic society being confirmed, therefore, by this bond of love, there should flourish in it that “order of love,” as St. Augustine calls it. This order includes both the primacy of the husband with regard to the wife and children, the ready subjection of the wife and her willing obedience, which the Apostle commends in these words: “Let women be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, and Christ is the head of the Church.”[29]
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Casti Conubii, Encyclical of Pope Pius XI, 1930

It’s a very good question “When did it change?”. Possibly with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1992, which was light on scripture or direction with this (relative to the amount of material available), just mentioning the “mystery” of the command to the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the Church (CCC #1659), but otherwise emphasising their joint vocation.
1659 St. Paul said: “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church. . . . This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the Church” ( Eph 5:25, 32).
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CCC. THE SACRAMENT OF MATRIMONY
 
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WingedHussar said:
When He was a child yes. At the Wedding Feast at Cana however, Mary does not give a command to Jesus. Instead, she tells others to listen to Him.

Strictly speaking, Eve was the first feminist. Her motive was equality motivated by envy.
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He was not a child. He was 12, the age at which boys went through bar mitzvah and were considered adults.

And at Cana He is reluctant. He tells her His hour is not.yet come.

And yet she is certain of her power, since she would.ntever command the servants unless.she was absolutely certain He would do as she wished. Imagine the humiliation if after all He did nothing!
 
Holy Scripture says that St. Joseph was “a just man”. Psalms, Proverbs and the Wisdom books describe in detail about the “just man”, e.g. “The just man shall be in everlasting remembrance; of evil hearsay he shall have no fear.” (which is the communion verse for 1 male saint in the Byzantine Tradition). So everything that describes the “just man” in the OT applies to St. Joseph.

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She brought the problem to his attention. Subordinates are supposed to do that.

The age for Bar Mitzvah seems to be 13, not 12 according to Wikipedia. This seems like a question @meltzerboy2 might be able to assist with.
 
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