Are LDS Protestants or are they separate?

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In truth, I feel very sorry for all mormons. Most have been born into a web of lies. The women especially, even if they want truth and if they hope to live good lives, they are regarded as mentally and spiritually deficient and dependent entirely on the actions of the one male to whom they are married. mormomnism is a no-win situation for all women and for men too though the men might not suspect that. If all mormon women ever decide to pack up their children and walk out of their homes on the same day, then the LDS beliefs would end for once and for all.
 
catharina said:
In truth, I feel very sorry for all mormons. Most have been born into a web of lies. The women especially, even if they want truth and if they hope to live good lives, they are regarded as mentally and spiritually deficient and dependent entirely on the actions of the one male to whom they are married. mormomnism is a no-win situation for all women and for men too though the men might not suspect that. If all mormon women ever decide to pack up their children and walk out of their homes on the same day, then the LDS beliefs would end for once and for all.
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Do you remember that Jim Carey movie “Liar,liar?” If that happened to mormonism and the Jws, they would disappear tomorrow.:cool:
 
zerinus said:
I have to admit, I am more skilful at truth than I am at humor. 🙂

zerinus
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  1. *]Have you ever heard the expression, “Self-praise stinks” ?

    *]You have much less skill at truth than a 900 lb. man has proficiency to run a one minute mile.
 
Technically they are “restorationists,” meaning that they believe that the Early Church fell into apostasy somewhere along the line and that it took Joseph Smith to re-establish the “true” form of Christianity. In all honesty, I consider any Church in opposition to the Catholic Church to be Protestant. Notice the root word in Protestant is “protest.”
 
When you study actual history, and actual Christianity, its unclear how any thinking rational adult could believe in what Joseph Smith started?

LDS are not Christians. To say they are is as absurd as saying people with very dark skin aren’t fully human, the early Apostles escaped to North America, or Joseph Smith found tablets…oh wait, Mormons said all these things at different times in their history.

Many good people are Mormons. However, Mormonism itself, when independantly and logically analyzed, is an embarrassment and an abomination. Its served as nothing more than a vehicle to deny many full communion, and even lead to the subjugation of many woman.

I appologize if anyone thinks my statements are meant to hurt anyones feeling. They are not. Sometimes honesty is more important than feelings.
 
thegame said:
When you study actual history, and actual Christianity, its unclear how any thinking rational adult could believe in what Joseph Smith started?
LDS are not Christians. To say they are is as absurd as saying people with very dark skin aren’t fully human, the early Apostles escaped to North America, or Joseph Smith found tablets…oh wait, Mormons said all these things at different times in their history.
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That’s OK, most mormon “apologists” on these forums would have difficulty in recognizing truth.
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thegame said:
When you study actual history, and actual Christianity, its unclear how any thinking rational adult could believe in what Joseph Smith started?

LDS are not Christians. To say they are is as absurd as saying people with very dark skin aren’t fully human, the early Apostles escaped to North America, or Joseph Smith found tablets…oh wait, Mormons said all these things at different times in their history.
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It would be helpful if you would take your own advice and “study the actual history.” Mormons never said any of those things you mentioned, except maybe the part about Joseph Smith finding “tablets.” We say “plates,” but I guess “tablets” is sort of on the right track.

Anyway, if you want to read what Mormons might say about such things, you might try this site for a start.

It’s really amazing to me how many people on this forum with just spout off to no end about the Mormons, when every word they type betrays the fact that they are going on a bunch of hearsay and rumors.
 
hosemonkey said:
As a (former) Master Mason of over 25 years, I can assure you that 99% of the temple ritual (the"endowment) is stolen directly from the degrees of freemasonry. The oath, the "penalties, the signs and tokens, directly from freemasonry. Any mormon that tells you that these things were ordained or delivered by God is an abject liar. Any Freemason will tell you the same thing. Joseph Smith was fascinated by freemasonry and he lost no time in incorporating masonic symbolism and ritual into his fake religion.
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Indeed. My father (who is both an LDS Stake President and a Mason) has confirmed this when I asked him (after my Endowment of course).

This little bit of info that was conveniently left out during how many number of years of Sunday School and Seminary is what first got me to critically study my own (former) faith.
 
hosemonkey said:
I went trough the mormon temple ritual when I was initiated into Freemasonry. The rituals are 99% the same.
With regard to transsubstantiation of the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ, even the heathen instinctively know that a great Mystery is taking place, not some mormon jiggery-pokery. Nothing “wierd” about it. Dressing up in aprons and funny hats and doing secret handshakes…now THAT’S wierd.
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In all fairness, no you haven’t been through the Mormon Temple.

Granted, from what I hear from LDS Masons, the endowment is very very similar to Freemason initiatory rites, however even they have pointed out some stark differences (likely whatever J. Smith thought would make the ritual more “Christian”), for example, the endowment itself is supposed to be like a huge play where the patrons reenact the creation. It starts with God (Elohim) telling Jesus and Adam to go down to the “unorganized world” and forming the earth (from the matter available), then all the men play “Adams” and the women play “Eves”, the women are tempted… etc.
 
GemmaRose said:
I am not debating that many LDS live exemplary lives, however their ideology does not fit the definition of Christian whose beliefs should include, at the minimum:
  • The Trinity,
  • The deity of Jesus,
  • Jesus’ bodily resurrection,
  • The atonement as a result of the life, and particularly the death, of Jesus,
  • Personal salvation by grace,
  • The inerrancy of the Bible
  • God’s inspiration of the Bible’s authors,
  • The virgin birth, and
  • The anticipated second coming of Jesus.
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Eh… I like to take a different approach, because as soon as you say “One must believe this and that doctrine in order to be a Christian” that opens the door for others to come in and add their own two cents (like how Evangelicals insist that to be a “Christian” one must ascribe to Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, which thus bars us Catholics from the term).

I think the most objective way to classify a denomination as part of the larger religion (or to classify them as their own religion) is to look at SCRIPTURE, indeed this seems to be what cultural anthropologists do.

Why are we Christians not considered Jews? Well that’s because we have additional scripture, namely the New Testament.

Why are Muslims not considered neither Jews nor Christian? Again, because they have a different scripture, namely the Qu’ran (and possibly the Hadiths, if they consider that scripture.

Now, Why are Mormons not considered Christian? Again, following the scriptural analysis, they venerate additional scripture, namely the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

For this reason, I’d say Mormons have officially broken themselves off from Christendom and began a whole new religion.
 
Wyatt said:
Technically they are “restorationists,” meaning that they believe that the Early Church fell into apostasy somewhere along the line and that it took Joseph Smith to re-establish the “true” form of Christianity. In all honesty, I consider any Church in opposition to the Catholic Church to be Protestant. Notice the root word in Protestant is “protest.”
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Actually, the Mormons like to call themselves restorationists even though there is an authentic Christian denomination that uses this title (which predates Mormonism, and was the faith of many early Mormons prior to their conversion such as Sidney Rigdon) and this denomination is (also known as) the Stone-Campbell Movement (AKA the Disciples of Christ)
 
BDawg said:
(Personally, I think this is because so many Christians have actually bowed down and worshipped before the Cross symbol for so many years, that it pretty much violates the “no graven images” commandment.)

you should start by treating their prior belief system with charity. That means figuring out what they actually believe and why they believe it, and then treating them with respect.
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In your first statement you presume to know the intention behind the action of a person, and in you second you admonish those who do just as you did in the first??
 
zerinus said:
I did have a look; but your citation was not very relevant to the point you were making. What I (and the Protestants) call the Apocrypha, is what you call the Deutrocanonicals. A more relevant article to refer to would have been this one:

newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm

As you can see from this article, the Deutrocanonicals were not always regarded on an equal standing with the rest of the biblical books by the Catholics. It is only in the Council of Trent of 1546, and the Vatican Council of 1870, that they gained full acceptance—and that only as a reaction to the Protestants’ rejection of them. But they have not always been so accepted in Catholic history.

zerinus
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You make an error common to Protestants, ie, if it hasn’t been ststed by a Council, it has not always been so accepted in Catholic history. You are correct that Councils frequently address issues AFTER someone challenges them.

While you are grasping for support for this theory of yours, it is based upon Jerome’s questioning as to whether the deuterocanonical books should be placed on the same footing. This does not make it Catholic teaching.
 
why_me said:
To qualify as a christian one must believe in Jesus Christ. The trinity is not a qualification for christian belief. Many lds live good christian lives because they attempt to keep the commandments and to live according to the word of god. They also believe Jesus to be the savior. I am not sure that it is correct to define a christian according to the trinity. Many mormons would be considered great ‘catholics’ by the way they live their lives.
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No, I am sorry, but they would not be considered good Catholics. Good people, perhaps. Doing good works, perhaps. But not Catholics.

The Nicean Creed would indicate that early Christians disagree with you as to the Trintity as well.
 
hosemonkey said:
As a (former) Master Mason of over 25 years, I can assure you that 99% of the temple ritual (the"endowment) is stolen directly from the degrees of freemasonry. The oath, the "penalties, the signs and tokens, directly from freemasonry. Any mormon that tells you that these things were ordained or delivered by God is an abject liar. Any Freemason will tell you the same thing. Joseph Smith was fascinated by freemasonry and he lost no time in incorporating masonic symbolism and ritual into his fake religion.
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I think that the podcast by John Dehlin and Greg Kearney explains much about Mormonism and masonry. I hope you listen. 🙂

mormonstories.org/?p=14

And this essay makes a good read:

fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Latter-day_Saints_and_Freemasonry.html
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
Indeed. My father (who is both an LDS Stake President and a Mason) has confirmed this when I asked him (after my Endowment of course).

This little bit of info that was conveniently left out during how many number of years of Sunday School and Seminary is what first got me to critically study my own (former) faith.
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I hope that you listen to the below podcast. You can also share it with your dad. I think that he may love it.

mormonstories.org/?p=14

And this essay by Greg Kearney makes a good read about mormons and masonary:

fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Latter-day_Saints_and_Freemasonry.html
 
GemmaRose said:
I am not debating that many LDS live exemplary lives, however their ideology does not fit the definition of Christian whose beliefs should include, at the minimum:
  • The Trinity,
  • The deity of Jesus,
  • Jesus’ bodily resurrection,
  • The atonement as a result of the life, and particularly the death, of Jesus,
  • Personal salvation by grace,
  • The inerrancy of the Bible
  • God’s inspiration of the Bible’s authors,
  • The virgin birth, and
  • The anticipated second coming of Jesus.
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I think that the mormons qualify for most of your list. But the trinity is not acceptable to the lds.
 
zerinus said:
My policy is to talk as little about the temple ordinances outside the temple as possible. It is not of anybody’s concern.

zerinus
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Talking about God is of no concern? :eek: Isn’t that what churches are all about, be it temple, synagogue, cathedral, etc.
 
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