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Gene_Church
Guest
I agree. Another example of a problem I have with my understanding of LDS.
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BDawg
Guest
Just as the LDS believe that the Trinity consists of three Beings who are so unified that they can be called one God, we also believe that other Beings can become one with God. If any of you would actually read the thread on “The Nature of God in Mormonism,” like I suggested, this would all be clear to you.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
In that case, from my perspective, Mormonism is a bunch of bs, JS was fraudulent pervert and your magic underwear won’t save you.
Of course, I understand that Mormons believe quite the opposite.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
As symbolic and empty as your sacrament.
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mntbike
Guest
Answer the question yes or no. Do you think that you will become a God and have your own world?
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AMDGtoo
Guest
Don’t forget that when LDS say Jesus Atonement, they mean “atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane” not Jesus’ atonement on the cross. (Found this out by accident. I was worried about the old LDS practice of “blood atonement” which is no longer practiced, as far as I know, and my convert to Mormonism daughter thought I was speaking of this Garden of Gethsemane atonement.)
Come to think of it, although 1 Corinthians 1:23 in my KJV (yes, a Protestant Bible!) (“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness” I supposed the verse can now be extended to the LDS.
Come to think of it, although 1 Corinthians 1:23 in my KJV (yes, a Protestant Bible!) (“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness” I supposed the verse can now be extended to the LDS.
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catharina
Guest
So along with his first failed premise, that the true Church had disappeared, Joseph Smith welcomed his followers into a group that chose polytehism: "Originally Posted by Joseph Smith -
“I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” Wow.
“I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” Wow.
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hosemonkey
Guest
“All that genuflecting and such” merely shows our profound respect and adoration for Our Lord, Jesus Christ. The crucifix represents our Lord’s great love and sacrifice in the giving up of His very life for our salvation. That may be a foreign concept to mormonism, but we believe it explicitly. It is my great honor and privilege to humbly kneel before the Cross of Our Lord.
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hosemonkey
Guest
This is outright polytheism. In many respects, mormonism has much more in common with Hinduism than in anything else. Hinduism also has a multiplicity of Gods. And mormons claim to be Christian? The likes of Joseph Smith “declaring” the nature of the Holy Trinity? Give me a break!
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catharina
Guest
Yep.
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Gene_Church
Guest
Thank you for the citations. I have reviewed Jeff Lindsay before, and always have felt that the target was constantly moving. He criticizes earlier LDS members for making statements that he says are wrong. He finds new scientific support for references in the Book of Mormon, and if a location is proved not to meet the criteria, we look for another location.
The claims that Joseph Smith was too ignorant to have known things, and that this proves the authenticity of the gold plates is troublesome to me. This still looks like a modern day fairy tale.
As to the original DNA questions that brought this up, my problem is that now it is clear that DNA does not support understanding of the Book of Mormon, we redefine the question. Not ALL native Amercians are included in the DNA, and because Judaism includes Ashkanasi, you can’t find genetic Jewish markers. Oh yes, and of course, the Book of Mornon doesn’t tell you the genetic makeup of all its characters. Once again, a moving target.
Now I understand why the early LDS had to rewrite their history.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Here it sounds like theosis or the beatific vision, but it becomes less clear when you stir in having your own spirit children?
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armyross
Guest
Mntbike they will not give a yes and no answer on this. This is true they do belive that they can become a God and have thier own world.
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armyross
Guest
Thank you for your post it is really good words.
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BDawg
Guest
Hi zaff,Here it sounds like theosis or the beatific vision, but it becomes less clear when you stir in having your own spirit children?
The answer is simply that the LDS idea of theosis is not exactly like the Catholic one. For us, theosis doesn’t mean much unless you end up doing the kinds of things God does.
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GemmaRose
Guest
I guess if LDS can claim to be Christian, I can claim to be Queen Elizabeth…
Excuse me while I go move into my palace.
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mntbike
Guest
That is funnyI guess if LDS can claim to be Christian, I can claim to be Queen Elizabeth…
Excuse me while I go move into my palace.
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BDawg
Guest
Why would you say that, Ross? I believe that. Maybe more than one world. And what’s more, I think that I am in line with very ancient Jewish and Christian ideas about the meaning of theosis. Consider the following quotation attributed to Rabbi Akiba, who was a prominent Jewish leader in the late first and early second centuries AD.
“The Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future call all of the pious by their names, and give them a cup of elixir of life in their hands so that they should live and endure forever… And the Holy One, blessed be He, will in the future reveal to all the pious in the World to Come the Ineffable Name with which new heavens and a new earth can be created, so that all of them should be able to create new worlds… The Holy One, blessed be He, will give every pious three hundred and forty worlds in inheritance in the World to Come.” (Midrash Alpha Beta diR. Akiba, BhM 3:32, quoted in Raphael Patai, The Messiah Texts, Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 1979, 251.)
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mntbike
Guest
So is that a yes to my question that you think that you are going to be a God? Like I asked yes or no. Why will you not answer that?
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BDawg
Guest
I understand, hose. But from my perspective, good intentions aren’t a good enough reason to ignore the second of the Ten Commandments.
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.” (Exodus 20:4-5)
And once again, I was only trying to explain why Mormons avoid using the Cross as a symbol, when we believe Jesus died on the Cross for us. Genuflecting to the Cross doesn’t offend me, personally, and I have rather enjoyed it the many times I have visited Catholic masses. I just wouldn’t genuflect to the Cross myself, because that would be bowing down to a graven image, in my opinion.
Also, I have read many defenses by Catholics saying that the Israelites did make graven images, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant. That’s true, but they didn’t bow down to them.
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