Are LDS Protestants or are they separate?

[catharina]

I’ve no idea if even mormons themselves think they’re Christians.

 

[why_me]

Talking about God is of no concern? Isn’t that what churches are all about, be it temple, synagogue, cathedral, etc.

For mormons, the temple ceremony is sacred and not to be discussed outside the temple. It is not even discussed in sunday school or in any other meeting in the lds church. However, the temple is discussed as a holy place but the ceremony’s details are off limits for public discussion.

 

[Auntie_M]

Technically they are “restorationists,” meaning that they believe that the Early Church fell into apostasy somewhere along the line and that it took Joseph Smith to re-establish the “true” form of Christianity. In all honesty, I consider any Church in opposition to the Catholic Church to be Protestant. Notice the root word in Protestant is “protest.”

Joseph Smith started this to begin with, there was no early mormon church. Or did I misunderstand you. Did you mean the “Early Church” as being Catholic? Is that the one Joseph Smith has “to correct”. (hummm, sounds like some of the same thing is happening today…)

 

[BDawg]

In your first statement you presume to know the intention behind the action of a person, and in you second you admonish those who do just as you did in the first??

Pay attention, Zaff. I was trying to explain why I believe we Mormons avoid using the Cross as a symbol, even though we believe Jesus died for our sins on the Cross. From OUR perspective, it seems like all the genuflecting and such violates the commandment not to bow down to graven images. I understand that Catholics do not believe they are violating that commandment.

 

[BDawg]

I’ve no idea if even mormons themselves think they’re Christians.

Hi Catharina,

Yes, we do. Below is a list of stuff we believe (off the top of my head) that we think qualifies us as “Christians”.

NOTE: Please DO NOT take our insistence that we are Christians to mean that we want to be perceived as just the same as other Christians. The simple fact is that Jesus Christ is the core of our message, and we don’t want people confused about that. I mean, just look at what is happening on this thread! Several people have introduced their own, special definitions of “Christian” just so they can exclude us. Well, they can do whatever they want, but the fact is that they usually don’t explain that they are using their own, special definition when they go around saying that kind of stuff. It confuses people, and they think we are some kind of Hindu sect, or something.

**Stuff Mormons Believe That We Think Qualifies Us as Christians

**1. Jesus is the Son of God, who died to save the world from sin and death.
2. Jesus is God. (Although, we have a different definition of what God is than you. Check out the thread on “The Nature of God in Mormonism” to see what I’m talking about.)
3. Jesus was resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven.
4. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD. (Although, we define the Divine Unity in a different way than you. Check out that other thread for more on this, too.)
5. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ by having faith in his Atonement, repenting, being baptized, and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus created the heavens and the earth.
7. Jesus was sinless.
8. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. (Yes, we do believe in the Virgin Birth. I recently explained the history of Mormon discussion on this topic in this post.)
9. The Old and New Testaments are scripture.
10. Our other books of scripture teach the above stuff.

I could go on…

So if Gemma, or hosemonkey, or whoever wants to have his/her own special definition of “Christian,” that’s fine, as long as people like Catharina aren’t misled into thinking we don’t believe the things on the list above.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Pay attention, Zaff. I was trying to explain why I believe we Mormons avoid using the Cross as a symbol, even though we believe Jesus died for our sins on the Cross. From OUR perspective, it seems like all the genuflecting and such violates the commandment not to bow down to graven images. I understand that Catholics do not believe they are violating that commandment.

Sorry, I misread it, I should have known better from reading so many of your posts

 

[zaffiroborant]

Which is one reason that when a catholic is baptized lds, he or she has no problems in coming back to the catholic church. Since both churches do not recognize the other baptisms, a catholic/mormon can do both religions without much of a problem.

But to do this, the person can not be dogmatic but open minded.

Well if you don’t have a problem lying to yourself and others I guess you could do it without much of a problem.

 

[catharina]

Hi Catharina,

Yes, we do. Below is a list of stuff we believe (off the top of my head) that we think qualifies us as “Christians”.

NOTE: Please DO NOT take our insistence that we are Christians to mean that we want to be perceived as just the same as other Christians. The simple fact is that Jesus Christ is the core of our message, and we don’t want people confused about that. I mean, just look at what is happening on this thread! Several people have introduced their own, special definitions of “Christian” just so they can exclude us. Well, they can do whatever they want, but the fact is that they usually don’t explain that they are using their own, special definition when they go around saying that kind of stuff. It confuses people, and they think we are some kind of Hindu sect, or something.

**Stuff Mormons Believe That We Think Qualifies Us as Christians

**1. Jesus is the Son of God, who died to save the world from sin and death.
2. Jesus is God. (Although, we have a different definition of what God is than you. Check out the thread on “The Nature of God in Mormonism” to see what I’m talking about.)
3. Jesus was resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven.
4. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD. (Although, we define the Divine Unity in a different way than you. Check out that other thread for more on this, too.)
5. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ by having faith in his Atonement, repenting, being baptized, and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus created the heavens and the earth.
7. Jesus was sinless.
8. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. (Yes, we do believe in the Virgin Birth. I recently explained the history of Mormon discussion on this topic in this post.)
9. The Old and New Testaments are scripture.
10. Our other books of scripture teach the above stuff.

I could go on…

So if Gemma, or hosemonkey, or whoever wants to have his/her own special definition of “Christian,” that’s fine, as long as people like Catharina aren’t misled into thinking we don’t believe the things on the list above.

Thanks for your reply. I made my comment because the mormons I’ve known (two young men and one middle-aged woman) have not seemed to be on any sort of Christian path - and I’ve never heard them define themselves as Christians. Their self-definition re religion was mormon, not Christian. Of course, my own perception is that Christians hold to the truth that Jesus taught, starting with the obvious (to Peter) that His Church would never fail. I’m clear in understanding that mormons reject that teaching, believing that the Church did fail.

 

[BDawg]

Thanks for your reply. I made my comment because the mormons I’ve known (two young men and one middle-aged woman) have not seemed to be on any sort of Christian path - and I’ve never heard them define themselves as Christians. Their self-definition re religion was mormon, not Christian. Of course, my own perception is that Christians hold to the truth that Jesus taught, starting with the obvious (to Peter) that His Church would never fail. I’m clear in understanding that mormons reject that teaching, believing that the Church did fail.

Yet another quirky personal definition of “Christian.” Just what we need, here.

Anyway, most Catholics I’ve known define themselves as “Catholics,” when I talk to them. But I’ve always understood that they thought they were Christians, as well–just a particular kind of Christian.

 

[1holycatholic]

**Stuff Mormons Believe That We Think Qualifies Us as Christians

**1. Jesus is the Son of God, who died to save the world from sin and death.
2. Jesus is God. (Although, we have a different definition of what God is than you. Check out the thread on “The Nature of God in Mormonism” to see what I’m talking about.)
3. Jesus was resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven.
4. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD. (Although, we define the Divine Unity in a different way than you. Check out that other thread for more on this, too.)
5. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ by having faith in his Atonement, repenting, being baptized, and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus created the heavens and the earth.
7. Jesus was sinless.
8. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. (Yes, we do believe in the Virgin Birth. I recently explained the history of Mormon discussion on this topic in this post.)
9. The Old and New Testaments are scripture.
10. Our other books of scripture teach the above stuff.

I could go on…

So if Gemma, or hosemonkey, or whoever wants to have his/her own special definition of “Christian,” that’s fine, as long as people like Catharina aren’t misled into thinking we don’t believe the things on the list above.

That is not correct according to LDS teaching posted on the LDS web site. They are three Gods. Three is always more than one.
lds.org
Joseph Smith:

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.

 

[majick275]

snip…

1. Jesus is the Son of God, who died to save the world from sin and death.[/qote] mormons place limits on this though

1. Jesus is God. (Although, we have a different definition of what God is than you. Check out the thread on “The Nature of God in Mormonism” to see what I’m talking about.)

mormons also redefine the the “eternal God” concept. they believe that God (and Jesus) became God at a some point in time.

1. Jesus was resurrected on the third day and ascended to heaven.

yes

1. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD. (Although, we define the Divine Unity in a different way than you. Check out that other thread for more on this, too.)

a bit more than just the unity. mormons for years referred to them as a"godhead" rather than one God as they believe they are only one in purpose not consubstantial nor co-equal and certainly not always extant in this relationship.

1. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ by having faith in his Atonement, repenting, being baptized, and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

mormons make a significant distinction between salvation and exaltation. the requirements for exaltation put a lot more emphasis on the works of the individual

1. Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

with the assistance of michael the archangel whom mormons believe to be Adam.

1. Jesus was sinless.

yes

1. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. (Yes, we do believe in the Virgin Birth. I recently explained the history of Mormon discussion on this topic in this post.)

big caveats here as mary’s perpetual virginity is not part of mormon doctrine and the manner of jesus conception has been a source of controversy in LDS circles for years.

1. The Old and New Testaments are scripture.

but are not considered reliable by mormons. they believe in deliberate as well as accidental errors in both and thus contend the need for the BoM to restore the original meanings. the D&C is required to direct the current LDS church though as even the BoM is considered insufficient scriptural instruction for the changing world we live in.

1. Our other books of scripture teach the above stuff.

as well as many other doctrines most christians would consider contradictory to Christ teachings.

I could go on…

So if Gemma, or hosemonkey, or whoever wants to have his/her own special definition of “Christian,” that’s fine, as long as people like Catharina aren’t misled into thinking we don’t believe the things on the list above.

i don’t think it’s so much a matter of “special definitions” as finding common definitions. mormons often use the same words in very different ways and define concepts differently when compared to other churches. this can be very confusing

 

[BDawg]

That is not correct according to LDS teaching posted on the LDS web site. They are three Gods. Three is always more than one.
lds.org

Hi 1holy,

Catholics believe the Trinity consists of 3 distinct “Persons” who make up the 1 Divine Being. Three Persons, One Being.

Mormons believe the Trinity consists of 3 distinct Beings, who are completely ONE in will, purpose, love, and covenant. Therefore, we can call them “three Gods,” or “one God” with equal ease. Our scriptures have both expressions. Like I said, if you were to read the other thread, you might be enlightened about what LDS believe about God.

 

[Gene_Church]

For mormons, the temple ceremony is sacred and not to be discussed outside the temple. It is not even discussed in sunday school or in any other meeting in the lds church. However, the temple is discussed as a holy place but the ceremony’s details are off limits for public discussion.

I appreciate the point of clarification.

 

[Gene_Church]

Pay attention, Zaff. I was trying to explain why I believe we Mormons avoid using the Cross as a symbol, even though we believe Jesus died for our sins on the Cross. From OUR perspective, it seems like all the genuflecting and such violates the commandment not to bow down to graven images. I understand that Catholics do not believe they are violating that commandment.

I appreciate that we have different perspectives. A problem I have with the LDS is that it appears to me as if it was created out of thin air. I see no indication of anything other than late revisionism. For example, I understand that we genetically know that the theories behind the LDS about North America are not substantiated. Is this correct?

 

[mntbike]

I appreciate that we have different perspectives. A problem I have with the LDS is that it appears to me as if it was created out of thin air. I see no indication of anything other than late revisionism. For example, I understand that we genetically know that the theories behind the LDS about North America are not substantiated. Is this correct?

Very true. They also think that when they die that they will become a God. They claim to be Christian. If they belive that they will become a God then they belive in more then one God.

 

[BDawg]

I appreciate that we have different perspectives. A problem I have with the LDS is that it appears to me as if it was created out of thin air. I see no indication of anything other than late revisionism. For example, I understand that we genetically know that the theories behind the LDS about North America are not substantiated. Is this correct?

Hi Gene,

You can read all about the DNA controversy here.

You can read about what kinds of things LDS people use as evidence for the Book of Mormon here.

You can read about how LDS respond to various criticisms of the Book of Mormon here.

 

[Gene_Church]

That is not correct according to LDS teaching posted on the LDS web site. They are three Gods. Three is always more than one.
lds.org

Thank you for an excellent citation. I would say that this is the Mormon equivalent to checking out the Catechism.

 

[lizaanne]

Very true. They also think that when they die that they will become a God. They claim to be Christian. If they belive that they will become a God then they belive in more then one God.

And, to continue this thought, if they believe in more than one God, then they are not Christian.

The LDS can call themselves anything they like, but they are not Christian. Any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.

~Liza

 

[mntbike]

And, to continue this thought, if they believe in more than one God, then they are not Christian.

The LDS can call themselves anything they like, but they are not Christian. Any more than standing in a garage makes me a car.

~Liza

So true. But they will always answer a question with a question to avoid the truth. I had this talk with a couple of Momons and they could not answer anything that I ask. When I ask about their belife on being a God they went silent.

 

[mntbike]

I appreciate the point of clarification.

Gene you can this info online. I found alot online about this.