Are men really struggling or not

[RachelKH]

Sorry – this is more on my dh and his views on lust, etc.
OK – he says that he hid his lusting over the years of our marriage just to spare my feelings. He feels all men look at women for sexual pleasure and none feel they should stop but some do or at least pretend to because their wives, like me, are ‘overly unrealistic and feel hurt by their husbands’ lusting’ but other than that all men go ahead and lust at any attractive women they encounter. I think that if he doesn’t understand that lusting is wrong and bad for him, us, our relationship, his relationship with all women and God, then there is no way he could win the battle against lusting because he sees it as just doing something for me not something to do for him or for God, and he feels if I don’t know, then why do it since I can’t know his thoughts.
Do you men think lusting is wrong? Am I unrealistic to think men are capable of controlling their lustful thoughts? or turning away instead of feasting their eyes? Am I wrong in wanting him to stop? Do men just pretend to fight their lust while indulging covertly? Am I ‘bullying and nasty’ to think it is wrong for my 46yo dh of 23 years to want to continue lusting after anyone/everyone he finds attractive? I truly think my Catholic husband (converted 6 years ago) actually has no conscience or moral maturity, other than trying to look good on the outside so he is socially acceptable. ???

 

[kage_ar]

Jesus would not have commanded the impossible.

 

[tjm190]

It is natural to feel attracted to attractive people, and I would posit that not having these feelings is just about impossible. I would also say that this is not sinful- but when you actually entertain these thoughts further than just allowing them to pop into your mind, that is when you hit lust. And there’s the sin- and yes, that’s avoidable.

 

[grandfather]

Sorry – this is more on my dh and his views on lust, etc.
OK – he says that he hid his lusting over the years of our marriage just to spare my feelings. . ???

People project what they are to all other people. People, men or women, who can not control themselves sexually, believe everyone is like them. People who can control themselves think everyone else can as well, if they wanted to do so.

A friend of mine was discussing the latest celebrity to have his life come unglued, the golfer. He could not understand how someone could be so out of control and stupid. That is, because he can control himself. I said this is an addiction. My friend would not buy it. He said, just don’t do it.

When we hear the debates on sex ed one camp says teach the kids to use condoms. The other says teach chastity. Some people believe teaching chastity is a foolish idea, because kids are inevitably going to have sex. These are the people who can not control their own impulses. The other camp believes self control is possible, because they have it.

Your husband can not control himself, because he is entrapped in sin. Jesus says those who sin are slaves to sin. They do what their master commands. Your husband does not know what it is like to be free of this and getting free is impossible under his own power. Only God can free those enslaved to any sin.

Your being angry or upset about this will not help. Your first concern should be for his immortal soul. He is in grave danger. On the other hand you should not accept the situation as it is. You can only pray for him.

 

[OraLabora]

I think all men will instinctively look at a pretty woman. Whether the thoughts go beyond “wow she’s cute” to “wow, I’d like to sleep with her”… well I would like to think that MOST of us are able to appreciate beauty without lusting.

I won’t say we never lust. We aren’t perfect. Most of us can control our impulses. IMHO the Catholic teaching on sexuality is a presentation of the ideal. But we all fall short of that ideal to some extent. If we didn’t, God would not have had to sacrifice His Son for our sins. We do have a sex drive that is highly visual and I think most of us married guys would admit some form of physical attraction was involved when we met our spouses. That “trigger” continues to work, nature doesn’t know if we’re married or not! But our brains sure know, and we aren’t animals, so we have to be careful, try to appreciate beauty for what it is without letting it get carried away into lust.

It is unrealistic though, to expect that 100% us will meet the ideal 100% of the time.

But instead I look at it like this: when I was a student, if I aimed for 100% on an exam, and really worked at it, I usually got a really good grade, in the high 80s or 90s, with the odd perfect paper once in a while. If I started out thinking “I’ll be happy to just get 60 0r 70% and pass”, I’d usually flunk the test.

On the subject of sin (not just sexual), we can aim for 100% as well. And when we fall well short, we seek reconciliation through that wonderful sacrament of the same name. Its also very important that the Church hold us up to a high standard, not just the flavour of the day as we see in some liberal Protestant churches. Sure, even the best of us will fail some of the time, but believe me if we set our standards too low most of us will end up failing most of the time.

I recite the Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours) every day. I find the daily examination of conscience before Compline and going to bed helpful as well.

 

[Mijoy2]

I would suggest the inclination is always present. In other words if an attractive woman is present before a man his awarness of her beauty is present. If there is not a deliberate effort to not allow his mind to take this awareness to a different level the mind will go there. I think (my opinion) this is where women and men may differ. A woman can be in the presence of a man she finds attractive without the mind wanting to runaway to a sexual place.

Can this “runaway” be nipped in the bud almost immediately. Yes, I feel. Sometimes he may be more succesful then others. With practice it becomes easier but the effort must always be put forth.

The desire to stop the mind from wandering to these places must exist. He who suggests it it impossible is not willing to try, or has given up too easily.

Do men struggle in this regard. Oh yeah!

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Yes lusting is a sin as Christ Himself made clear.

Your husband has surrendered and has become a slave of the flesh instead of its master, such weakness is the mark of a beast not a man.

And now in his fallen state he is still too proud to accept that there are better men than himself and so seeks to drag all men down to his level rather than to lift himself out of the mire he has fallen into.

The best thing you can do for him is let him know how disgusted and ashamed of him you are for not even trying to resist it, providing he values your affections that will hopefully instil some fight back into him.

Because I tell you if he does not fight these evil inclinations he will very likely be damned.

“But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart. And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.” So speaks our Lord and King Jesus Christ (Matthew 5:28-30)

“Thou shalt not commit adultery…Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house: neither shalt thou desire his wife” Thus speaks God our Father who art in Heaven (Exodus 20: 14,17)

 

[OraLabora]

Your husband has surrendered and has become a slave of the flesh instead of its master, such weakness is the mark of a beast not a man.

Be careful, none of us are above sin and we all have our weak spots. Calling someone a beast is surely not helpful.

He is a fellow sinner and human being and entitled to the same dignity as the rest of us, and if anything, our compassion.

I find a lot of folks here have probably not yet been through their dark night of the soul. If they had, they would be more compassionate towards fellow sinners, and finally come to the realization that our only hope is Christ’s mercy because we can never really shake off the yoke of sin.

 

[Luke_K]

I’m a 20 year old college guy. Don’t believe for a second the lie that it’s natural for men to lust, or guys who excuse themselves for going to strip bars and looking at pornography by saying “I’m just a guy who has needs that have to be met.”

Listen to grandfather. He is exactly right. Men entrapped by lust project their own imprisonment onto others. I felt this way too when I used to indulge in it. But now, being chaste is honestly easier than not. This is the power of Jesus and the Gospel.

 

[TinaG]

I’m pretty sure men have to struggle with what is a chemical reaction when they see a woman, one they cannot even help. They can learn to control their eyes, though. But it is one thing for a man to look at a woman, and another for him to keep looking, especially if he has “elevator eyes.” When he intentionally looks so that he becomes aroused (or goes somewhere so he can do that), he has definitely crossed “the line.” Exactly where that line is God only knows.

Women need to understand that this is a struggle that men have that I don’t think women can really understand. Women can dress modestly and chastely and pray for their men. Some women are out there laying traps for men by how they dress. Older women should discuss with younger women the havoc they can cause for men. My husband has told me of times he was been walking the dog or something, minding his own business, and he sees a woman and it takes him some time to get his thoughts back on track.

Condemning your man for this will only drive him away from you. He really needs to talk to another man about it. What you can do is express compassion for him for something that you cannot really understand, and trust God and him to work it through. And pray. You cannot change his heart, but God can.

-Tina

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Be careful, none of us are above sin and we all have our weak spots. Calling someone a beast is surely not helpful.

He is a fellow sinner and human being and entitled to the same dignity as the rest of us, and if anything, our compassion.

I find a lot of folks here have probably not yet been through their dark night of the soul. If they had, they would be more compassionate towards fellow sinners, and finally come to the realization that our only hope is Christ’s mercy because we can never really shake off the yoke of sin.

To rebuke the sinner is a work of mercy, when one is obstinate in their sin such as this one is it is first necessary to make it clear them how low they have fallen otherwise they remain blind to their condition and see no reason to change. It is a way to motivate the sinner to act correctly so that he will save his soul, that is why it is a act of mercy.

Saying its ok your a sinner we are all sinners is exactly the excuse the husband is employing to excuse his sin and excuse himself from even trying to resist sin, as such a “compassionate” approach such as you suggest would merely confirm him in his erroneous reasoning and his obstinate attachment to his sins and as such would not be compassionate at all leading as it likely would to eternal suffering, there is nothing compassionate about that.

The husbands problem is that he has conditioned himself over decades to behave in this way because of the lie secular society has sold him that it is normal guy behaviour to be a lust driven animal. Such an ingrained habit will be hard to break but with Gods grace is certainly possible.

Fasting will work wonders with this particular sin. But first you will have to make him want to change.

 

[prodigalson12]

It’s harder for several reasons. 1st, secular “and” Christian dress codes have degraded to an all time low, even and including within church. 2nd, popular media which is almost entirely unavoidable too often uses scantily clad women to promote their products. 3rd, we have an entire generation of women that think they need to seduce a man in order to attract one into their lives. Then we have these vile commercials and promotions with people insisting it’s normal for the average 40+ year old male to have to use viagra or other forms of medication in order to “enhance” their love life, and the reality of that one, if they used real people that were in need of them, typically would be out of shape and in a moral waste land.

Do we have the ability to not look at the pretty girls lustfully, you bet ya, it’s not hard to do at all, especially if we have a spouse in our lives, there is no excuse for it at all. If he cannot control his thoughts, blaming it on the male equation is a cop out entirely. I’m also going to point out, it’s not just men that do it, women do it just as much.

 

[chessmane4e5]

It is possible, because their are various degrees of lusting. Depending on how severe his lusting is will determine how long it will take him to stop. It is an addiction, and with therefore need time, effort, lots of prayer, and the grace of God.

I have lusted for girls since probably age 14. Society definitely does not help. Television always has commercials or programs with elicit material. I converted to Catholicism at age 21, was married to a wonderful Catholic wife at 22, but still I viewed women as objects for me to look at and fantasize about. I knew it was wrong, and I would “try” to not do it, but it was not an honest effort.

It was not until I recently read “The Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West that I had a true conversion of heart. I still struggle at times, but now that I understand WHY I am not supposed to lust, it is easier to recite a Hail Mary as soon as I find myself lusting. I am not perfect, and I imagine I may struggle with this for the rest of my life, but I am confident that through, prayer, confession, and the help of God, I will control my lust and not let my lust control me.

 

[Fidelis_Unus]

He feels all men look at women for sexual pleasure and none feel they should stop but some do or at least pretend to because their wives, like me, are ‘overly unrealistic and feel hurt by their husbands’ lusting’ but other than that all men go ahead and lust at any attractive women they encounter.

Ever heard of Promise Keepers? I know the most amazing men who attend and they have such reverence and respect for their wives. It is truly a beautiful thing. I know, it’s not Catholic, but it absolutely Christian and profoundly helpful.

I can see how painful this must be for you. For me, my DH is very handsome and women simply ignore me and blatently flirt with him. He even flirts back. It’s painful to me, to the extent that I no longer attend the same Church. It was too hard for me to pray because I couldn’t get past all my feelings and focus on the Eucharist. What I had to do was find a way to give my feelings of hurt, jealousy and anger over to God.

I remember a very attractive young man in a Bible study who talked about how very difficult it is for a man to not sin. Just standing in line in at the checkout men are challenged. It’s difficult, not impossible, but very very hard.

I don’t know if this helps any, you probably have a lot of company out there. My DH is a good man and he loves me, just not perfectly. Only God can changes hearts and only those hearts that are willing to change.

Have to agree with prodigalson12 “…it’s not just men that do it, women do it just as much.” :clapping: I can still remember my Dad telling me that men are different, it’s harder for them because of that testosterone. (sigh)

One last thought … I often think of Monica at times like these and the many, many times she poured her heart out to God, praying for her son, St. Augustine. I can hear my mother saying, “Offer it up!”. Oh that used to drive me nuts as a kid! but, what do you know ? She was right!

Oh my Jesus, I offer you
all that I do,
all that I say,
all that I see, and
all that I hear,
and I pray for your unending mercy,
to continue to be poured down
upon me and my family
neighbors and friends,
even those who have turned away from you
and whose hearts are like stone.

 

[OraLabora]

To rebuke the sinner is a work of mercy, when one is obstinate in their sin such as this one is it is first necessary to make it clear them how low they have fallen otherwise they remain blind to their condition and see no reason to change.

Calling someone a beast is no work of mercy.

It is in fact un-Christian and uncharitable.

I have not and did not suggest saying it is OK to sin or OK to tell the gentleman to sin.

I am suggesting however that calling someone sub-human because of his sin is wrong. It is wrong precisely because sinning is part of being human since the Fall and we are all dependent on Christ’s mercy. We are all slaves to sin to one extent or another.

What was that thing again about a speck in someone’s eye but log in our own eye?

 

[grandfather]

Be careful, none of us are above sin and we all have our weak spots. Calling someone a beast is surely not helpful.

He is a fellow sinner and human being and entitled to the same dignity as the rest of us, and if anything, our compassion.

I find a lot of folks here have probably not yet been through their dark night of the soul. If they had, they would be more compassionate towards fellow sinners, and finally come to the realization that our only hope is Christ’s mercy because we can never really shake off the yoke of sin.

Pretty tough talk from advocado. Someone said something once about casting primary stones.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Calling someone a beast is no work of mercy.

It is in fact un-Christian and uncharitable.

I have not and did not suggest saying it is OK to sin or OK to tell the gentleman to sin.

I am suggesting however that calling someone sub-human because of his sin is wrong. It is wrong precisely because sinning is part of being human since the Fall and we are all dependent on Christ’s mercy. We are all slaves to sin to one extent or another.

What was that thing again about a speck in someone’s eye but log in our own eye?

And the parent who calls their child bad for doing a bad thing is been uncharitable and unchristian to I suppose by your reasoning.

“But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted.” Jude 1:10

“Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto life everlasting. 22 And some indeed reprove, being judged:” Jude 1:21-22

"22 “Reprove, being judged”… He gives them another instruction to practice charity in endeavouring to convert their neighbour, where they will meet with three sorts of persons: 1 st, With persons obstinate in their errors and sins; these may be said to be already judged and condemned; they are to be sharply reprehended, reproved, and if possible convinced of their error. 2 d, As to others you must endeavour to save them, by pulling them, as it were, out of the fire, from the ruin they stand in great danger of. 3 d, You must have mercy on others in fear, when you see them through ignorance of frailty, in danger of being drawn into the snares of these heretics; with these you must deal more gently and mildly, with a charitable compassion, hating always, and teaching others to hate the carnal garment which is spotted, their sensual and corrupt manners, that defile both the soul and body. "

You demonstrate you do not understand the difference between Christian charity and sentimental human charity which cares only for worldly good ignoring the eternal.

People are more likely to take note and remember strong stirring words. Strong words cause people to repent and not remain lukewarm. Bold ministry can turn people off but they would probably turn away anyway and be considered by God to be lukewarm. Therefore, they probably would have been rejected by God anyway.

1 Timothy 5:20 “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

Luke 17:3 “Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.”

2 Timothy 4:2 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

In condemning me you also condemn Christ and the Apostles who rebuked sinners even unto death in the case of St. Peter, and it cannot be unchristian to imitate the Christ.

 

[bill_r]

I think it would be very helpful for you to look into teachings of John Paul II on his Theology of the Body. It deals directly with this idea. There is so much it is difficult just to comment on. JPII does say that when we look at the opposite sex everyone will place a sexual value on that person. It then amounts to what we do with that. Original man as naked without shame was that way because they looked at each other with the love that god loved them but after original sin lust came into the world and they covered themselves (as a defense mechanism). Lust is looking at someone as an object for ones personel use. It is never a good thing. Because of Christ’s redeeming power we do pocess the graces necessary to change the way we look at people. It may be difficult for you husband or many others to do this because society has confused us to think many times that love is lust or that it is just ok. Pick up any of the books on TOB, they are all good. “TOB is like a theological timebomb set to explode with great consequence sometime in the third millenium.” It would do both of you good. I have been married 32 years and fell in love all over again with my wife. Pretty good feeling. God bless.

 

[Bluegoat]

I think what has been said here by a few is true - it is natural to notice other people and find them attractive. It is even a good thing - it’s part of how God made us. But we are not meant to encourage or continue such thinking about people unless we are married to them.

Sometimes this can be hard because we are subject to concupiscence, and there is an aspect of habit. A person who has never tried to overcome this will often think it is impossible - that may be why the person has not tried to overcome it. And our culture tends to teach that one can’t, or shouldn’t, or doesn’t need to, so it is easy for a person to feel comfortable with that. And it means there aren’t a lot of obvious examples of others who have. And of course some people struggle more with this than others - it may even be that some will never overcome it totally, no mater how they try. We all have our struggles.

But your husband is wrong if he thinks all men think or feel about this as he does. And FWIW, I don’t see this as a particularly male thing, women have troubles with it too. Sometimes it looks similar to the male version, and sometimes not - the whole Romance Novel industry is based on a kind of romanticized version of this.

 

[grandfather]

I think what has been said here by a few is true - it is natural to notice other people and find them attractive. It is even a good thing - it’s part of how God made us. But we are not meant to encourage or continue such thinking about people unless we are married to them.

Sometimes this can be hard because we are subject to concupiscence, and there is an aspect of habit. A person who has never tried to overcome this will often think it is impossible - that may be why the person has not tried to overcome it. And our culture tends to teach that one can’t, or shouldn’t, or doesn’t need to, so it is easy for a person to feel comfortable with that. And it means there aren’t a lot of obvious examples of others who have. And of course some people struggle more with this than others - it may even be that some will never overcome it totally, no mater how they try. We all have our struggles.

But your husband is wrong if he thinks all men think or feel about this as he does. And FWIW, I don’t see this as a particularly male thing, women have troubles with it too. Sometimes it looks similar to the male version, and sometimes not - the whole Romance Novel industry is based on a kind of romanticized version of this.

That is very good commentary.