Are men really struggling or not

[grandfather]

I think what has been said here by a few is true - it is natural to notice other people and find them attractive. It is even a good thing - it’s part of how God made us. But we are not meant to encourage or continue such thinking about people unless we are married to them.

Sometimes this can be hard because we are subject to concupiscence, and there is an aspect of habit. A person who has never tried to overcome this will often think it is impossible - that may be why the person has not tried to overcome it. And our culture tends to teach that one can’t, or shouldn’t, or doesn’t need to, so it is easy for a person to feel comfortable with that. And it means there aren’t a lot of obvious examples of others who have. And of course some people struggle more with this than others - it may even be that some will never overcome it totally, no mater how they try. We all have our struggles.

But your husband is wrong if he thinks all men think or feel about this as he does. And FWIW, I don’t see this as a particularly male thing, women have troubles with it too. Sometimes it looks similar to the male version, and sometimes not - the whole Romance Novel industry is based on a kind of romanticized version of this.

This is true of all types of sin. If people believe it is impossible to overcome it, they will never overcome it, because they will not try. They believe they are destined to remain the same until they die in their sins. They believe a lie. We can overcome sin by grace.

One of the great dangers of Protestant thought, or most of it, is that people believe they are saved, destined for eternity with God, because they believe Jesus died for their sins. He did, but we have to repent. As they examine themselves and see unrepentant sin, they accept it. This goes back to Luther.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Sorry – ** He feels all men look at women for sexual pleasure**

This is the key statement right there for me. This is true of men who look at pornography for instance. It seems that many men fall to the vices of pornography and lust. When one is in that state they can not have a pure view of a woman because their minds are in a disordered state. It’s like a sickness that infects the brain. Some men do not even realize that there is anything wrong with their thinking. Others realize that it is wrong but feel addicted to it and can not control themselves.

At the heart of lust is selfishness. It is focusing on satisfying my desire instead of focusing on the needs of others. If you could get him to stop looking at pornography and lusting for 1 month his whole life could change. His thinking could change and he would see what its like to not have that mindset. To see a woman as a person that God created for his glory. Instead of seeing her in a disordered way, as an object for self-satisfaction.

Of course the only way that I know to overcome such obstacles is through daily prayer. It is through the grace that God gives us that enables us to overcome these things in our lives and eventually be victorious over them.

 

[Bluegoat]

One of the great dangers of Protestant thought, or most of it, is that people believe they are saved, destined for eternity with God, because they believe Jesus died for their sins. He did, but we have to repent. As they examine themselves and see unrepentant sin, they accept it. This goes back to Luther.

Most Protestants are pretty big on repentance.

 

[OraLabora]

And the parent who calls their child bad for doing a bad thing is been uncharitable and unchristian to I suppose by your reasoning.

Leaving the Bible quotes out of it (sorry, I’m not a chapter-and-verse Protestant), yes, it is being uncharitable to call your child “bad”.

We all have good and bad in us but for the most part the good outweighs the bad (unless your a Jansenist…). That does not make the child “bad”. The child is in the process of learning to discern right from wrong.

What is bad, when a child misbehaves, is the behaviour. Not the child! You reprimand the child’s behaviour but never withhold your love from him/her.

The gentleman has a sex addiction problem, just like an alcoholic has an addiction problem. That does not make the person inherently a beast. It is a treatable condition. Any addiction specialist will tell you that the person has to hit rock bottom before they seek help (and will tell you that belief in God is very important to recovery, BTW). Calling a person a beast will not achieve that.

The focus should be on the behaviour or addiction being bad. Not the person.

That said, one shouldn’t enable bad behaviour either. That’s another story and there are support groups (like Al-Anon for alcoholics) to teach folks how to avoid enabling.

 

[OraLabora]

Most Protestants are pretty big on repentance.

Yes and it’s a big part of their conversion process. Where they lose it though, is that they don’t have the sacrament to continue that process. Because as we all know, we fall away on a daily basis; we put ourselves ahead/above God daily, trying to make little gods out of ourselves.

The conversion process is not a once-in-a-lifetime deal. It’s a daily struggle.

We all know that Protestants, just like Catholics, fall away regularly. I think our system of “coming home to Jesus”, aka the Sacrament of Reconciliation, is superior. Protestants will tell you that you don’t need an intermediary to speak to God.

Well I for one find it very humbling to have to confess my sins to another man as well as God. I think that humbling is a necessary part to fully open yourself up to God’s grace.

Nobody said it would always be easy, but there’s a reason the sacrament is what it is. And I must say when having marital troubles myself, the best marital advice I ever got was not from the married psychologist I saw briefly, but from my celibate confessor!!!

 

[Equites_Christi]

TinaG said it’s a struggle that women may not be able to understand. I’ll try to illustrate.

Pretend, for a crazy second, that eating is sinful. Now, our bodies are designed to want food. When we see food, we think not only about the food, but eating it. Our wills can be influenced by hunger, and controlled by it if we allow it. The trick is to try to appreciate the food without thinking about eating it. It doesn’t help that everywhere we turn we see food, presented in a way that highly implies eating. We are trained to think about food in terms of eating it, and we are told it is normal to think about eating it and even go ahead and eat it. To be slaves to hunger.

Now, this is not to imply that lust must be satisfied as the body’s need for food must. Certainly the OP’s husband needs to realize that he can and should control himself. But this is, in an imperfect analogy, what men go through, and it doesn’t help when women shake their heads and say “Why are men hungry? Pigs pine for food.”

 

[Monte1945]

Do you men think lusting is wrong? Am I unrealistic to think men are capable of controlling their lustful thoughts? or turning away instead of feasting their eyes? Am I wrong in wanting him to stop?

Unquote…

I think that lust falls within the catagory where it is something which is
God given and if used within the Will of God, then it is good and
if not it isn’t good.

The majority of humans man and female have desires and it seems that in the USA
the custom is for the male to be the one to make the moves towards a woman.
Many women have just as much desire within their humanity but they do not
show the same interest in our game of dating as they will sit back and let
the man approach them from that position but they often do that because
they know the male will approach them.

I don’t know exactly what you mean in regards to your husband having it.
And that he is in error of how he is feeling. But there is a right and wrong
way to act in this area and one has to be concerned with the intention
of any action… What he feels is normal but how he directs these feelings
can be perverted. A fire in a fireplace is good, but a fire on the floor of a house is not.
The fire is not the evil here but where it is placed and what damage it can done because
of it’s placement.

In marriage there are acts which should only be shared by the married couple.
I feel that the feelings of physcial desires should only be shared by the
married couple.

Sexual desires have always been a difficulty which many Saints have had to
endure. It seems the vow and dedication of being celebrate for one’s faith
has had great good effects on people of no faith towards them seeing
that God is real and can help lead that person close to the Truth of God
through Jesus. It can be helpful for someone to not engage in marriage
and sex if one wants to dedicate one’s self for a christian witness. Such
as a Religious Order…

But it is not that way, within a marriage. But then one has to have the right
kind of understanding towards one’s marriage vow… The view of marriage
by the Catholic church is equal as a Priest vow for the priesthood.

It is one of the main Sacraments and it can and should be looked upon
as it. There is so much communication and witness that can come
from a marriage vow… and a great opportunity for a man or woman
to live out their christian marriage in a way which can show those
who personally know them, that they can witness the reality of
God in the world by loving each other, and their children in such
a way as to sacrifice themselves in certain ways and through certain
behavior which will show God is the real bond between them.

It would take a book to list all of the ways in which one can be
a light and take the basket off of it… as a witness of the love of
God is between the two involved.

I am not that familiar with the laws of the church or what one might
call the catholic christian morals laws. But I know that it would
be a violation of the love of God to allow personal desires to
allow one’s mind wander to other women in a lustful way.
Of course the natural man is going to feel attracted to women
in general. But to submit to those feelings goes against
some basic christian beliefs… I feel that one of the benefits
for man from the passion and death of our Lord was to give
to us, the power to resist sin and the devil’s temtations.

To not do so, would bring to my memory the scripture which
saids…“Ye of little faith”… Be ye perfect as your father in heaven
is perfect"… and I pray that you will not be tempted by the temper.

yes, it is wrong that his man has lust which he does not admit it
is a sin and won’t fight against it and as long as he
feels that way, he has defeated himself… it is a bad witness
to others plus it is an insult to his wife. Which is against
the main call from Jesus to us… to die to self… and to
live for the happiness of those people who have the gift
of family and friends in their lives…

To deny the temptations and to suffer within that struggle
gives one the opportunity to offer that sufferings up for
the salvation of the church… (col 1)

if this man allows this attitude to hinder his wife and her
happiness and contentment of mind then he does not
seem to be loving her in the right way… and he needs
to be reminded of just what his call as a husband is.

With that factor between him and his wife this will surely
cause some future difficulties… it is something he
really needs to look at and listen to his wife and
not only hear her, but to feel her feelings and for
him to sacrifice his desires before it spreads and
damages more of their bond and witness.

I always look at what I am doing or am about to
do with one angle which is to see if it will hurt
anyone in my life… and if it will I will not do it.
When one loves one gives… and the act of
that charity will bring one joy, which can
not be gained in any other way…

Good luck… lady…

 

[grandfather]

Most Protestants are pretty big on repentance.

There is a contradiction. They do talk about repentance, but also say all that is necessary for salvation is faith. Faith alone saves. This is the cornerstone of Luther’s thought.

Today many rely on a salvation experience, “getting saved”, being “born again”, not in baptism, but an experience of accepting Christ as one’s personal savior. From that time on they know for sure they are heaven bound, or think they know. They have been saved and salvation can not be lost. Once saved always saved, because they have come to faith and that is the sole condition for salvation.

They can be involved in serious sin, but still believe Jesus is the Son of God who came to save sinners, so they are ok.

Catholics believe that if we die impenitent, in our sins, we are in trouble. When Jesus told the pharisees they would die in their sins, He was telling them they would be eternally lost.

When I talk with Protestant friends, some of whom are ministers, about people who have had this born again experience, but live in serious sin throughout their life, they say they believe they are saved by virtue of their faith that Jesus is their savior.

Catholics believe faith, hope and love are necessary for salvation. You must love God and neighbor. Scripture equates loving God with obeying God’s commandments.

 

[piejesu]

Ever heard of Promise Keepers? I know the most amazing men who attend and they have such reverence and respect for their wives. It is truly a beautiful thing. I know, it’s not Catholic, but it absolutely Christian and profoundly helpful.

There is a Catholic counterpart to the Promise Keepers and that is Catholic Men’s Fellowship groups that have been springing up all over the country the last several years. There is a National Organization also where you might find a local parish group that meets in your area.

No man is an island, yet that is precisely the way most men find themselves existing in today’s secular society. Secular wisdom is telling men that they can’t control themselves, that it is only natural to entertain erotic thoughts most every moment of the day. Catholic Men’s Fellowship groups combat the misinformation that pervades the secular world, with good Christian fellowship around the Word, the Catechism, the Eucharist…in other words, around Jesus Christ.

If a man wants to be chaste he can. If he doesn’t even understand that everyone is called to chastity in one form or another, he won’t even try.

nfcmusa.org/

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Leaving the Bible quotes out of it (sorry, I’m not a chapter-and-verse Protestant), yes, it is being uncharitable to call your child “bad”.

Then as I said Christ and the Apostles lacked charity by your definition of charity, are you comfortable with declaring God uncharitable?

Your idea of charity is not the charity practised by Christ as proof I will give you the obvious example of Christ’s behaviour towards the moneylenders in the Temple, I trust though you are ignorant of the Word of God you are at least aware of this part of the Christ who you claim as your Lords life.

If you have a bible also see Matthew 23:33 there you will find Christ speaking in perfect charity these words: “You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgement of hell?”

Seems Christ does not follow your modern parenting advice.

If you would follow Christ and imitate Him you must first get to know Him.

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

All I can speak is from my own experience - what I experience and what I see my friends experience.

As a man, it seems to be a constant battle. Especially it seems the older I get the more IN MY FACE the images seem to be - whether it’s on t.v,. the internet, real life, etc.

Talking to a priest once, he told me the sin isn’t committed in recognizing a beautiful woman. It’s in what I DO with that thought afterwards. Do I recognize she’s beautiful and move on or do I linger on her beauty and let my mind wander.

On the flip side, through the GRACE OF GOD, there was a period in my life where I seemed to have mastered my thoughts/actions. A woman could bend over in front of me and I’d automatically divert my eyes. I didn’t dwell on images and I didn’t allow myself to succumb to fleshly desire.

Unfortunately I’m not there right now. So it’s back to the struggle.

 

[ac_claire]

Be careful, none of us are above sin and we all have our weak spots. Calling someone a beast is surely not helpful.

He is a fellow sinner and human being and entitled to the same dignity as the rest of us, and if anything, our compassion.

I find a lot of folks here have probably not yet been through their dark night of the soul. If they had, they would be more compassionate towards fellow sinners, and finally come to the realization that our only hope is Christ’s mercy because we can never really shake off the yoke of sin.

Just wanted to say, I think the negative reaction the OP’s husband has inspired isn’t because of his sin of lust, but because of how he’s dealing with it according to the OP. He’s basically trying to rationalize it and throw it back on his wife as though she’s the one with the problem because she can’t make peace with the way he’s, basically, just disrespecting her. That’s the worst part IMO.

 

[RachelKH]

Just wanted to say, I think the negative reaction the OP’s husband has inspired isn’t because of his sin of lust, but because of how he’s dealing with it according to the OP. He’s basically trying to rationalize it and throw it back on his wife as though she’s the one with the problem because she can’t make peace with the way he’s, basically, just disrespecting her. That’s the worst part IMO.

Thank you – yes, that is what hurts so badly. I can handle that he finds other women more beautiful, more sexy, more attractive, if he would try to stop looking and lusting because it hurts me and it is wrong and something he has the ability to fight against, even if it is an unsuccessful fight many times. I feel so disrespected that he tells me I am wrong to ask him to try to stop. I have born him 6 children and nurtured them all and still have a pretty good body after 23 years of marriage – why can I not be enough for him? Why does he think so little of me to not even struggle on my behalf? I guess it may be that he protects his pride by not admitting that he is doing wrong or addicted.

 

[fbl9]

snip…
I guess it may be that he protects his pride by not admitting that he is doing wrong or addicted.

You should have been a carpenter…
Yes a atractively dressed female grabs my attention.and most of the time it bugs me that she does grab my attention…When i married my wife i knew she wouldn’t look the same after 10 yrs so in that way i was prepared for how age does change a persons looks… i think she looks better now than she did when we were first married.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Men find women sexually attractive. men are visually aware. Men will be sexually excited by numerous women.

However there is a difference between entertaining the thought that a girl is sexually attractive which is frankly impossible to avoid and lusting which is wallowing in that desire.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Men find women sexually attractive. men are visually aware. Men will be sexually excited by numerous women.

However there is a difference between entertaining the thought that a girl is sexually attractive which is frankly impossible to avoid and lusting which is wallowing in that desire.

Not if you don’t look at them

 

[OraLabora]

Just wanted to say, I think the negative reaction the OP’s husband has inspired isn’t because of his sin of lust, but because of how he’s dealing with it according to the OP. He’s basically trying to rationalize it and throw it back on his wife as though she’s the one with the problem because she can’t make peace with the way he’s, basically, just disrespecting her. That’s the worst part IMO.

Trying to justify his behaviour wouldn’t be too surprising from an addict.

 

[OraLabora]

Then as I said Christ and the Apostles lacked charity by your definition of charity, are you comfortable with declaring God uncharitable?

Your idea of charity is not the charity practised by Christ as proof I will give you the obvious example of Christ’s behaviour towards the moneylenders in the Temple, I trust though you are ignorant of the Word of God you are at least aware of this part of the Christ who you claim as your Lords life.

If you have a bible also see Matthew 23:33 there you will find Christ speaking in perfect charity these words: “You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgement of hell?”

Seems Christ does not follow your modern parenting advice.

If you would follow Christ and imitate Him you must first get to know Him.

Christ was not talking to a child in the citations you mentioned.

He also said, when challenged with the adulteress, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, and forgave the Good Thief on the cross. And I could go on, but I won’t.

That’s my point about your using Bible citations without context or without looking at the big picture. Or maybe you only want to see the part of the picture that fits with your own world view.

It’s a game that I won’t play as it won’t get you anywhere; anyone can pull a citation out of context to score points in an argument. The JWs are experts at it.

 

[TinaG]

Not if you don’t look at them

There is a time for everything, a time to admonish the stubborn, but also to encourage the fainthearted. Jesus said he would not break a bruised reed or put out a smoldering wick. I am not convinced it is given to you to decide which is appropriate in this situation. I find your advice alarming, unbalanced and possibly cruel. The most horrible deeds on the earth have been done by the self-righteous in the full conviction that they are doing the will of God. In all humility and charity I would encourage you to search your own heart to see what may lie in it before advising the course of action you advocate. Jimmy Swaggart was the strongest condemner of the sins of other evangelists right up to the time his own scandal broke.

There is an old saying: when you point one finger at someone, three are pointing back at you. By the standard you judge others you will be judged. Be very, very careful here.

-Tina

 

[OraLabora]

There is a time for everything, a time to admonish the stubborn, but also to encourage the fainthearted. Jesus said he would not break a bruised reed or put out a smoldering wick. I am not convinced it is given to you to decide which is appropriate in this situation. I find your advice alarming, unbalanced and possibly cruel. The most horrible deeds on the earth have been done by the self-righteous in the full conviction that they are doing the will of God. In all humility and charity I would encourage you to search your own heart to see what may lie in it before advising the course of action you advocate. Jimmy Swaggart was the strongest condemner of the sins of other evangelists right up to the time his own scandal broke.

There is an old saying: when you point one finger at someone, three are pointing back at you. By the standard you judge others you will be judged. Be very, very careful here.

-Tina

Well said and much more elegantly than I could have put it!