G
gazelam
Guest
I appreciate you bringing Ephesians 1:5 to my attention.
- Status
A
ajcstr
Guest
Lot of stuff here, I don’t want to hijack the thread and I am more than willing to “step outside” to a new thread, but really? 50 years younger than the Lutheran Church - Jack Chick never even claimed anything like that.
Also the Latin Vulgate was THE Bible for the Catholic Church for over 1,000 years. To my knowledge (and I could be wrong and would gladly admit so if evidence be presented) those 7 so called disputed books were always in the Vulgate.
J
JMM1957
Guest
gazelam, I posted this verse a while back but you must have overlooked it; (Is. 43:10)
You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. **Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. **11"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.…
Your comment?
You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. **Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. **11"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.…
Your comment?
P
PJM
Guest
P
PJM
Guest
P
PJM
Guest
NO, dear friend, they do not.
In NAMES perhaps?
But not in the right understanding what what in truth, those names actually mean.
Sadly there are significant differences in what we believe,.that cannot be viewed correctly as being either the same, or even similar.
We differ on Who God is{the Trinity}
Who the Father is
Who Jesus is
the After life
Heaven hell and Purgatory, as examples
God Bless you
Patrick
P
PJM
Guest
No my friend, that at best a very limited understanding.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.
John 14:10
Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.
Mt. 3:13-17
[13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. [14] But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. Then he suffered him. [16] And Jesus [GOD THE SON} being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove,[GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT] and coming upon him. [17] And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.{GOD THE FATHER}
CO-EQUAL
CO-ETERNAL
ONE TRUE GOD
God Bless you
Patrick
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Damn. Try to present a brief defense against an online troll- by and the issue gets worse. You’re one of my favorite posters, too. Jack Chick is a joke. LDS, Catholic, JW, Protestant, we can all agree on that ( maybe not). I said that the " final form of the Catholic Church emerged at the end of the Council of Trent and in that sense the Lutheran Church is nearly fifty years older. When did the councils at Trent begin? 1545? When did Luther nail his Theses to the door of the Castle Church at Wittenberg? 1517? When did the final form of the Catholic Church emerge? catholic.com/encyclopedia/council-of-trent and what about the disputed books of the Old Testament? bible-researcher.com/canon4.html.
Let this be a lesson ( as I took it to be last night): KEEP ON TOPIC! Gratuitous attacks on anybody will derail the thread because those who feel like they are under attack will defend themselves. Holy Mother, it wasn’t a Protestant who thought it would be fun to come in and randomly stir up $%^&. There goes the thread!
P
PJM
Guest
Re: Are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses Christian?
POST 729
I do agree and posted such, that the person who caused this flap, could have {should have} done so with greater charity
I have not read all 700+post, but know that I have posted what the RCC teaches at least 3 times on this string, and we do NOT believe that “all Protestants” are necessarily hell bound. Those “who THROUGH NO FAULT of their own”, do not know Christ, Christ Church or the full and accurate meaning of the Gospels” {meaning the entire bible BTW}, MIGHT still merit salvation through their non-culpable ignorance, and through their charity, still merit salvation. Catholic Catechism #’s 1260, 846-848
** scborromeo.org/ccc.htm**
As for the Authority of the RCC
Mt 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
Jn. 17:17-20
Mt. 28:18-20
IF, if rightly understood, recognizing the “singular tense” words chosen for a precise lesson/purpose, alone, even though very much other evidence also exist, both in secular history and in the bible, which clearly teaches God’s desire for belief in
One True God {Triune}
Only One set of faith beliefs as even GOD can accept more
**One Chosen people **in the OT Exo. 6:7 and “My Church” singular in the NT, Mt. 16:18
Which raises the question, where is the biblical evidence for the reformation faiths {plural} and churches?
FACTS: Truth must be singular per defined issue. It can be nothing else.
What you suggest above is for the RCC to accept your views, but give no valid reason why we should do so. As to adding or taking away from the bible; may I humbly suggest that is precisely why the reformation took place and why there are thousands of differing SETS of faith beliefs and churches within the Protestant communion. So if, as you suggest the RCC is not the One True Faith of Jesus Christ, which is literally unprovable; then dear friend, which of the many other sets of faith beliefs are and based on what evidence?
.
BUT Trent did not so much CHANGE existing RCC practices and beliefs as clarify them. THAT”S a huge difference. Please share via a PM what exactly TRENT changed…
TRENT’S bible cannon was the same as the one set by the following RCC Church Councils: Laodicea, Rome, hippo, Carthage, Florence. TRENT only confirmed the already LONG existing Canon.
So where in the bible was Luther’s authority to remove 7 books? 2nd Tim 3:16-17 “All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work”
I do not belief that you can prove that the “removed” verses were “relatively recent at his time anyway”
The Bible was FULLY authored by the end of the 1st Century or VERY early 2nd Century. And WHO as you claim was disputing the 7 books Luther chose to remove?
God Bless you,
Patrick
POST 729
MOD, I agree we’re getting off the OP-topic a bit here, but this post seems to require a Catholic reply.
I do agree and posted such, that the person who caused this flap, could have {should have} done so with greater charity
I have not read all 700+post, but know that I have posted what the RCC teaches at least 3 times on this string, and we do NOT believe that “all Protestants” are necessarily hell bound. Those “who THROUGH NO FAULT of their own”, do not know Christ, Christ Church or the full and accurate meaning of the Gospels” {meaning the entire bible BTW}, MIGHT still merit salvation through their non-culpable ignorance, and through their charity, still merit salvation. Catholic Catechism #’s 1260, 846-848
** scborromeo.org/ccc.htm**
As for the Authority of the RCC
Mt 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
Jn. 17:17-20
Mt. 28:18-20
IF, if rightly understood, recognizing the “singular tense” words chosen for a precise lesson/purpose, alone, even though very much other evidence also exist, both in secular history and in the bible, which clearly teaches God’s desire for belief in
One True God {Triune}
Only One set of faith beliefs as even GOD can accept more
**One Chosen people **in the OT Exo. 6:7 and “My Church” singular in the NT, Mt. 16:18
Which raises the question, where is the biblical evidence for the reformation faiths {plural} and churches?
ONLY when they conform to Sacred Tradition, Defined Doctrine & Dogma’s
Send me a PM on your other points had to shorten this 4 space
FACTS: Truth must be singular per defined issue. It can be nothing else.
What you suggest above is for the RCC to accept your views, but give no valid reason why we should do so. As to adding or taking away from the bible; may I humbly suggest that is precisely why the reformation took place and why there are thousands of differing SETS of faith beliefs and churches within the Protestant communion. So if, as you suggest the RCC is not the One True Faith of Jesus Christ, which is literally unprovable; then dear friend, which of the many other sets of faith beliefs are and based on what evidence?
NOW THAT IS FOR ME AT LEAST AN ORIGINAL ARGUMENT
.
BUT Trent did not so much CHANGE existing RCC practices and beliefs as clarify them. THAT”S a huge difference. Please share via a PM what exactly TRENT changed…
TRENT’S bible cannon was the same as the one set by the following RCC Church Councils: Laodicea, Rome, hippo, Carthage, Florence. TRENT only confirmed the already LONG existing Canon.
So where in the bible was Luther’s authority to remove 7 books? 2nd Tim 3:16-17 “All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work”
I do not belief that you can prove that the “removed” verses were “relatively recent at his time anyway”
The Bible was FULLY authored by the end of the 1st Century or VERY early 2nd Century. And WHO as you claim was disputing the 7 books Luther chose to remove?
NO comment is warranted on the above comments. And I too apologize for the side tracking of this thread
God Bless you,
Patrick
P
PJM
Guest
OK
Show me in your OFFICIAL BOOKS where Mormons DO believe in Christ Divinity
Here is the Catholic Definition from Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary, and what you have to be able to prove is in AGREEMENTS with LDS teaching on Christ Divinity.
“DIVINITY. The attribute of being divine. In an absolute sense only the infinite God is divine. but the term is sometimes loosely applied to others than God, either mistakenly or because of some relationship they have to God. (Etym. Latin divinus, belonging to God.)”
"GOD. The one absolutely and infinitely perfect spirit who is the Creator of all. In the definition of the First Vatican Council, fifteen internal attributes of God are affirmed, besides his role as Creator of the universe: “The holy, Catholic, apostolic Roman Church believes and professes that there is one true, living God, the Creator and Lord of heaven and earth. He is almighty, eternal, beyond measure, incomprehensible, and infinite in intellect, will and in every perfection. Since He is one unique spiritual substance, entirely simple and unchangeable, He must be declared really and essentially distinct from the world, perfectly happy in Himself and by his very nature, and inexpressibly exalted over all things that exist or can be conceived other than Himself” (Denzinger 3001).
Reflecting on the nature of God, theology has variously identified what may be called his metaphysical essence, i.e., what is God. It is commonly said to be his self-subsistence. God is Being Itself. In God essence and existence coincide. He is the Being who cannot not exist. God alone must be. All other beings exist only because of the will of God."
“JESUS. The name of Our Lord. It is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, whose Hebrew is Jeshua or Joshua, meaning Yahweh is salvation. It is the name through which God the Father is to be invoked and by which the Apostles worked miracles (Acts 3, 6). In standard usage the name “Jesus” is applied to the Son of Mary, who is also the Son of God; as distinct from “Christ,” which refers to his Messianic role as the fulfillment of the ancient prophecies.” SEE Lk 1:26-35
God Bless you
Patrick
M
Michael68
Guest
Protestants need to understand this is a Catholic site and saying things like “cult of saints” will not be received well.
Just sayin
Just sayin
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Amen. I offer my apologies ( again) to those who have pursued this thread in good faith. I’m not interested in hurling manure at people over theological disagreements, but discovering common ground. If I want to bray about " Protestant superiority," there’s an online Protestant Community I can do that to my heart’s content. If somebody wants to randomly fling hostile bytes so they can run away and giggle about it ( remember those days when kids would ring your doorbell and run away when you went to answer the door? It’s really kind of like that), they should expect people who they are attacking to defend themselves and offer a few jabs of their own. Unsubscribed and regrets I ever clicked on this link in the first place. Walking on bloody eggshells…
J
jane_doe
Guest
Let’s start with:OK
Show me in your OFFICIAL BOOKS where Mormons DO believe in Christ Divinity
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the cliving God.
John 3: 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mark 9:7 7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
If you want more, here’s a long list: lds.org/scriptures/tg/jesus-christ-divine-sonship?lang=eng
G
gazelam
Guest
TRIGGER WARNING: The comment below was copied directly
from FAIR Mormon. Reader discretion advised!!
This from FAIR Mormon at en.fairmormon.org/Latter-day_Saint_scripture/Critical_proof_text/Isaiah_43:10
This passage and other similar proof texts from the Hebrew scriptures are misused by critics. When read in context, it is clear that the intent of the passage is to differentiate YHWH from the foreign gods and idols in the cultures surrounding the Jews.
Verses 11 - 13 are a continuation of the statement by God:
Code:
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.
I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "that I am God.
Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?" (NIV)In addition to misapplying this passage, critics also fail to recognize the growing body of evidence that shows that the Jewish religion was not strictly monotheistic until quite late in its development, certainly after the era in which Isaiah was written. When this evidence is considered, it appears that Judaism originally taught that though there are indeed other divine beings, some of whom are called gods, none of these are to be worshiped except for the God of gods who created all things and who revealed Himself to Moses.
L
LutheranScholar
Guest
Well, when Protestants are welcomed as guests to said Catholic site, they don’t expect gratuitous attacks and will defend themselves with as much enthusiasm as that shown by their ego- stroking attackers.
Just sayin’
M
Michael68
Guest
I understand, believe me! When I first started posting here I was on a kinda warpath. I had spent time on so-called Christian forums where it is basically war for a confessed Catholic. I have been readjusted by this site and appreciate it. I am learning, yet sometimes my first reaction is to defend and not charitable.Well, when Protestants are welcomed as guests to said Catholic site, they don’t expect gratuitous attacks and will defend themselves with as much enthusiasm as that shown by their ego- stroking attackers.
Just sayin’
I have learned so much here about other faiths that is positive.
J
jane_doe
Guest
I think we all have fallen into that trap! It is good to have your Christ-like reminder here about trying to do better.
A
ajcstr
Guest
OK, you have “dropped the gloves”…lets continue here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14172179#post14172179
and leave this thread to beating a long dead horse !
- Status