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tkdnick
Guest
That is GREAT! I LOVE hearing stories of conversion! WELCOME HOME!!!
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ContraFool
Guest
Psalm45:9:
“Nemo Me Impune Laccesit” ??? “No one wrongs me with impunity” if my Latin isn’t too horrible. Isn’t that a little contrary to “Turn the other cheek” ?
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love-bias
Guest
fellow members of the TRUE CHURCH here’s a neat little website against Mormonism. It’s quite nice. I must warn however, the webmaster is Protestant.
carm.org/mormon.htm
carm.org/mormon.htm
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PaulDupre
Guest
God bless you Max! Your story is very much like mine (even the 11 years!). Except that my temple marriage did not survive my exit from Mormonism.
Paul
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bengeorge
Guest
I have a very close friend who is Mormon…
When we speak about technical theological issues, he makes no sense to me. It’s sounds like a game of dungeons and dragons gone haywire.
me: “What? Kolo…?”
him: “Kolob, it’s the name of the star that God’s planet revolves around…”
But when we speak strictly about the spiritual tests of life, we communicate on the same frequency throughout. It mystifies me that some one who believes in such a different theology from me could come to some of the same conclusions about the workings of the Lord in our lives. It would be as if someone thought “bird” actually meant turtles, and yet could converse with a bird-watcher for hours on the beauty of the “bird” in flight and the sublimity of its song.
The Mormons have very strong families, certainly stronger than most Catholics I see. I am reminded of the passage “By their fruits shall ye know them” and can’t help but be ashamed at the divisiveness and scandal in our Church.
It makes it very hard to witness to Mormons, or anyone for that matter, when we have such problems in our house.
My prayer is for all the good and kind Mormons, that they may see the Truth and be set free from the more controlling aspects of their religion.
Pray for me, and all who are in a position to witness to the Mormons, that we may live a life that reflects well for Our Lord and His Church, that we may argue with compassion, and that we may extend ourselves beyond all reason to comfort the hopefully ex-Mormons, as they will certainly feel the pain of loss and exile from their former communities and even families.
Thank the Lord every single day, all you cradle Catholics, that you recieved Truth around the dinner table, and on family vacations. Have we been worthy?
When we speak about technical theological issues, he makes no sense to me. It’s sounds like a game of dungeons and dragons gone haywire.
me: “What? Kolo…?”
him: “Kolob, it’s the name of the star that God’s planet revolves around…”
But when we speak strictly about the spiritual tests of life, we communicate on the same frequency throughout. It mystifies me that some one who believes in such a different theology from me could come to some of the same conclusions about the workings of the Lord in our lives. It would be as if someone thought “bird” actually meant turtles, and yet could converse with a bird-watcher for hours on the beauty of the “bird” in flight and the sublimity of its song.
The Mormons have very strong families, certainly stronger than most Catholics I see. I am reminded of the passage “By their fruits shall ye know them” and can’t help but be ashamed at the divisiveness and scandal in our Church.
It makes it very hard to witness to Mormons, or anyone for that matter, when we have such problems in our house.
My prayer is for all the good and kind Mormons, that they may see the Truth and be set free from the more controlling aspects of their religion.
Pray for me, and all who are in a position to witness to the Mormons, that we may live a life that reflects well for Our Lord and His Church, that we may argue with compassion, and that we may extend ourselves beyond all reason to comfort the hopefully ex-Mormons, as they will certainly feel the pain of loss and exile from their former communities and even families.
Thank the Lord every single day, all you cradle Catholics, that you recieved Truth around the dinner table, and on family vacations. Have we been worthy?
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rich123456
Guest
When it comes to families we all have the same problems. I live in Utah and can attest to that.
Before I became Catholic I had a really good freind. He is my friend after many years. His brother had a real bad drug problem when he was about 25. Heroin! his parents took him in. He stold their Jewerly one night including one of their engagement rings to buy drugs. I asked my friend what they did and he told me nothing. They just loved him and hoped for a day that he might get better. I found out later that my freind and his family were Catholic. As a new Catholic it all makes sense to me now years later. Catholic families are some of the best families I have ever witnessed. We do not have to be ashamed of our short comings because we can start fresh with God now. We should not hide them as well. We all stand in the line of confession together and this is so awsome!!!. We are af allen people. We are lifted only by Christ. We have so much to offer Mormons, we need to be alert and realize this. They need us / The Christ that we know! More than you may know.
God Bless
Before I became Catholic I had a really good freind. He is my friend after many years. His brother had a real bad drug problem when he was about 25. Heroin! his parents took him in. He stold their Jewerly one night including one of their engagement rings to buy drugs. I asked my friend what they did and he told me nothing. They just loved him and hoped for a day that he might get better. I found out later that my freind and his family were Catholic. As a new Catholic it all makes sense to me now years later. Catholic families are some of the best families I have ever witnessed. We do not have to be ashamed of our short comings because we can start fresh with God now. We should not hide them as well. We all stand in the line of confession together and this is so awsome!!!. We are af allen people. We are lifted only by Christ. We have so much to offer Mormons, we need to be alert and realize this. They need us / The Christ that we know! More than you may know.
God Bless
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Psalm45_9
Guest
ContraFool said:
It is the Scottish Motto, it is supposed to have St. Andrew’s Cross at the end of it, he is their patron. The Vikings were about to invade Scotland in the middle of the night, while everyone was asleep. They walked barefoot to sneak up on the Scots. However, they walked straight into a thistle patch. With the first shout of agony, the Scot’s woke up and slaughtered the Vikings. They then thanked their patron St. Andrew, and this became the Motto of Scotland. This is why I have it written in red.
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ContraFool
Guest
Well, I really wish I could attribute your friend’s stroy to them being a Catholic family…but as a cradle Catholic, I know better. My entire Irish family is all Catholic, have been four about 1600 years, and they aren’t exactly the Brady Bunch. There is constant fighting and bitterness between everyone, and half or more of them are complete alcoholics. And about 75% of them go to Mass every Sunday and then some. About once a month my mom swears she is never speaking to her mother or sister again. Sometimes I wish she would actually do that just so the screaming would stop. I hate to burst your buble here. I do know some really good Catholics, but they are converts. The majority of cradle Catholics are not people I’m proud of. I thank God every day that I am one, of course!! Because I know that the Catholic Church is the only true Church, but the people who claim to practice it really need a wake up call. According to the priest at my church, only about 25% of Catholics today actually believe in the Real Presence of the Eucharist as the Church teaches it.
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rich123456
Guest
“Well, I really wish I could attribute your friend’s stroy to them being a Catholic family…but as a cradle Catholic, I know better.”
catholic-rcia.com/pages/Forgive.html
I became Catholic because my eyes opened to reality of sin, of what Christ offers us. I am not one misled as to this reality of my faith, the story of your family , as my story attest in the above link. No one is beyond the need to heal. I have a sister that does not see a need for healing. She is LDS. I love my sister very much and pray often for her. She would like to think of her family as in a likeness of the Brady Bunch. It’s not. But on the oustside you would very much think it was. It is in the line of confession that I see the light as I see my fellow Catholics in this line. It’'s reality. It is refreshing. I will pray for your family…They seem a lot like mine.
Peace In Christ Always
Rich
www.catholic-cia.com
catholic-rcia.com/pages/Forgive.html
I became Catholic because my eyes opened to reality of sin, of what Christ offers us. I am not one misled as to this reality of my faith, the story of your family , as my story attest in the above link. No one is beyond the need to heal. I have a sister that does not see a need for healing. She is LDS. I love my sister very much and pray often for her. She would like to think of her family as in a likeness of the Brady Bunch. It’s not. But on the oustside you would very much think it was. It is in the line of confession that I see the light as I see my fellow Catholics in this line. It’'s reality. It is refreshing. I will pray for your family…They seem a lot like mine.
Peace In Christ Always
Rich
www.catholic-cia.com
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PaulDupre
Guest
The notion that Mormons have such strong families is just PR. They have all the problems that everyone else has - in some cases even more. Utah has a higher divorce rate than the US as a whole. More out-of-wedlock pregnancies. The same rate of abortion. The same per-capita drug and alchohol abuse. A slightly higher rate of domestic violence per capita. Etc, etc.
When I was a Mormon and served as second counselor to my bishop, I saw the dark underbelly of Mormonism up close and personal. They have the same clergy sex-abuse problems we have, plus a tremendous amount of incest and domestic violence. The LDS leadership just covers it up and sends the victims and perpetrators back home. They tell the beaten wife or the raped daughters to “be more prayerful and submissive to their preiesthood leader” (the husband/father who beats and rapes them). At some point we will see the LDS Church mired in scandal just like we are now. It hasn’t happened yet because the LDS Church is a smaller target and their members are more frightened and brainwashed. But they cannot fly below the radar forever.
Paul
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WICatholic
Guest
Well said:My response…
As someone who also knows very well a Mormon family, and whose children have been growing up with THEIR kids… and witnessed screaming, hitting, etc while there by the parents (my generation) then seen and WATCHED the ‘face for the outside’ come over the entire family when someone came to the door… you have no idea what goes on behind their closed doors. People are people. Some just hide it better. They have alcoholics and sex abusers and drug abusers and smokers, etc in their ranks just as we do in ours. They have abortions, children out of wedlock, etc, just as other families do. They just hide it more, as it could impact their Temple Recommend.
We are ALL sinners, including those of the Mormon or LDS church, the Catholic Church, etc.
I am a member of a 12 Step Program, and believe me… we come from EVERY background, EVERY denomination/religion/cult, etc. I know some very prominent people in our Program…who from the outside looked like they had NO problem in the world, til their world blew up. The Irish are not alone in the behavior you describe…and not all Irish are even close. I personally witnessed the fighting… verbal and physical, just as my children did in this particular Mormon family between the parents. You cannot tell just from looking at the surface. Families who ‘looked so good’ from the outside divorce all the time…and when you finally are told some of the things that happened, even taken with a large dose of grains of salt as one must… you find rather quickly that this is true.
Again, I urge CAUTION when comparing what you have and what they have, etc… and caution when discussing your Faiths, too.
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tkdnick
Guest
I see this type of stuff first hand all the time. I have some very good friends who are LDS members, and I see the children fight just as much, if not more so, than my brother and I used to fight. I also have seen the parents have almost no control over the children. It’s amazing to me to see the mother tell her kids it is time to go to bed more than 10 times without them even budging! LDS are normal people just like all the rest of us. Some good families, some great families, some bad families. No one is exempt from that, it’s part of living in a fallen world.My response…
As someone who also knows very well a Mormon family, and whose children have been growing up with THEIR kids… and witnessed screaming, hitting, etc while there by the parents (my generation) then seen and WATCHED the ‘face for the outside’ come over the entire family when someone came to the door… you have no idea what goes on behind their closed doors. People are people. Some just hide it better. They have alcoholics and sex abusers and drug abusers and smokers, etc in their ranks just as we do in ours. They have abortions, children out of wedlock, etc, just as other families do. They just hide it more, as it could impact their Temple Recommend.
We are ALL sinners, including those of the Mormon or LDS church, the Catholic Church, etc.
I am a member of a 12 Step Program, and believe me… we come from EVERY background, EVERY denomination/religion/cult, etc. I know some very prominent people in our Program…who from the outside looked like they had NO problem in the world, til their world blew up. The Irish are not alone in the behavior you describe…and not all Irish are even close. I personally witnessed the fighting… verbal and physical, just as my children did in this particular Mormon family between the parents. You cannot tell just from looking at the surface. Families who ‘looked so good’ from the outside divorce all the time…and when you finally are told some of the things that happened, even taken with a large dose of grains of salt as one must… you find rather quickly that this is true.
Again, I urge CAUTION when comparing what you have and what they have, etc… and caution when discussing your Faiths, too.
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WICatholic
Guest
The “Jesus Christ” of the Mormons, etc is not the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, only begotten Son of the Triune God, born of the Ever Virgin Mary that we, as Christians love, know, and serve. The ‘Jesus’ of the Mormons is the spirit brother of Lucifer, one of many of ‘father god Adam’… that Jesus is a created being, NOT the Second Person of our Trinity. Our Jesus is God-Man, not created, but begotten. There is a huge difference in these two people, regardless of what they call Him. The Jesus Christ of Christianity is not a spirit brother of Lucifer… He created Lucifer and all the angels.
The Mormons, and anyone else can call themselves ‘Christian’, but they are not speaking the same language as true Christians speak. Even those who know better have been fooled. Read Isaiah Bennett’s books (a priest who left the priesthood, and became Mormon, married, and returned to the Catholic Church). His testimony is also on the Catholic Answers radio archive site.
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oat_soda
Guest
this is a great point. many people fail to recognize that bad doctrine leads to bad behavior. catholics (and middle aged white people in general) are taught to feel guilty about crimes committed in the name of catholicism. nearly all of these things are lies or misrepresentations such as the popular view of the inquisition, crusades, pius xii, and the church in central and south america.
you often hear this about evangelicals somehow being more morally upright then catholics are. in fact, everyone is pretty much the same and the reason people sin or act like jerks is because they are not catholic enough.
if we believe the church contains the fullness of truth, then the further away a religion is from this truth, the more it leads to destruction and the devil.
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ex-mormon
Guest
Here is a great essay on this subject from Daniel Evans.
The Mormon church does not understand grace, faith or salvation, and in fact teaches doctrine turned 180 degrees from the Biblical truth. The Mormon church teaches that " There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come…(Sermon by Brigham Young given Sept. 21, 1856, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp.53-54) It teaches a works oriented salvation that “puts the cart before the horse” in its approach. It denies the power of Christ and exalts the pride of man. I learned as a Mormon to try to “make myself perfect”. I learned that I needed to follow a laundry list of do’s and don’ts. I believed that I needed to follow a highly organized system of men placed between me and my maker to obtain God’s forgiveness or work within his authority. I learned that these men had control in my life, and that when one of them in authority spoke I was to take it as having come from the mouth of the LORD. When my ears were open enough for me to really understand the New Testament I understood that the LDS church lied to me. Men are sinners- born into it- and cannot make themselves perfect. The Bible teaches that men are accepted by Christ in their sins, that he loves them, and takes them how they are. It teaches that this is a result of faith in him. It says that though their nature still remains sinful, Christ changes them from the inside as a result of faith, but not as a result of their works. The Bible teaches that Christ’s infinite atonement covers all sin of all men who believe in him. It teaches that the Old Testament order of having to have an intermediary between man and God is done away with, and that Christ is the only way to God. All through the New Testament the pattern of faith preceding an unwarranted action is set. Jesus never says anything like, “you’ve done very well in your keeping of the word of wisdom - therefore I’ll heal you.” But he frequently says things like, “Take heart, daughter…your faith has healed you.” (Matthew 9:22) When a woman who “was a sinner” came to see Jesus, and washed his feet with her tears, he did not say, “That’s a good start, now go and undo all the sins you’ve committed, clean up your life, clean up your thoughts, do some worthy work and when you are finished come back to me and I’ll appoint some people to see about forgiving you.” No, he very simply said, “Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” You see, she was already forgiven. Nothing she could do could earn it, and she didn’t have to; Jesus gave it to her freely because of her faith. Can’t you see how simple and beautiful this is? Jesus has done this for me also and I weep when I think of it because I am so very grateful. Please see Matthew 8:10-13, 9:2, 9:29 and 15:28.
The Bible teaches plainly that we are saved by grace through faith. It teaches that no one will be saved by their good works. Truly, faith that produces no good works is a dead faith, but when there is a real faith it produces its work as a result of Christ and the changes he makes in the believer. The Bible is definitive in its argument for faith as being the ingredient for salvation:
more…
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ex-mormon
Guest
continued…
“Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:20-24
“THEREFORE BEING justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 5:1
“What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works…” Romans 9:30- 32
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Galatians 2:21
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9 It fits well within Mormonism’s humanistic model that they have put the emphasis on becoming perfect. After all, they have put the emphasis on becoming a God. When we seek goodness through our works we try to say to Christ, “I know you couldn’t pay the whole debt - here let me pay it too.” We deny his power to accept us as what we are. We say, “hands off- I can change myself into what you ( I ) want.” But the fact is that HE makes the changes in us through faith. The Bible teaches the simple truth on this matter: When we believe in Christ he sets us free. When God looks upon us in judgment he sees only an imperfect man, but one saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Please see Acts 15:8-11, 26:18, Romans 1:5, 4:1-10, 4:14-16, 5:7-9, 10:4, 10:9, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Galatians 2:15-16, 3:22-25, Philippians 3:7-9, Titus 2:11-12
This is just one of the reasons that any catholic or protostant christian could not possibly consider the Mormon faith to be christian.
“Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:20-24
“THEREFORE BEING justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 5:1
“What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works…” Romans 9:30- 32
“I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Galatians 2:21
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9 It fits well within Mormonism’s humanistic model that they have put the emphasis on becoming perfect. After all, they have put the emphasis on becoming a God. When we seek goodness through our works we try to say to Christ, “I know you couldn’t pay the whole debt - here let me pay it too.” We deny his power to accept us as what we are. We say, “hands off- I can change myself into what you ( I ) want.” But the fact is that HE makes the changes in us through faith. The Bible teaches the simple truth on this matter: When we believe in Christ he sets us free. When God looks upon us in judgment he sees only an imperfect man, but one saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Please see Acts 15:8-11, 26:18, Romans 1:5, 4:1-10, 4:14-16, 5:7-9, 10:4, 10:9, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Galatians 2:15-16, 3:22-25, Philippians 3:7-9, Titus 2:11-12
This is just one of the reasons that any catholic or protostant christian could not possibly consider the Mormon faith to be christian.
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ex-mormon
Guest
Here is an essay written by Father Richard John Neuhaus on the subject of are Mormons christian. catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=2972
What do you think of this essay?
Do Mormons on this site find it offensive or infomative from a catholic perspective?
Do you agree or disagree with his statements?
What do you think of this essay?
Do Mormons on this site find it offensive or infomative from a catholic perspective?
Do you agree or disagree with his statements?
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searcher
Guest
This is the third time I have read through this article and have each time found it to be mostly fair and balanced. As a member of the LDS Church for over 30 years I have come to view our Church as a new faith tradition that strives to follow the teachings of Christ as we understand them. We are not Christians in the traditional sense, but we do try to follow Christ. There are many things I love about the LDS Church, but there is a spirtually longing in my soul to learn more about the Catholic Church. I for one agree with Father Neuhaus that the Holy Spirit is working within the LDS Church to bring if not the Church as a whole at least individual members closer to traditional Christian beliefs. Whether I stay or leave I pray that by God’s grace that it may be so. There is much we can learn from each other.
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puzzleannie
Guest
your understanding of Mormon belief is faulty. They specifically reject the Divinity of Jesus, the Trinity and their baptism is not considered valid by the Catholic church because of this fact.
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Tmaque
Guest
LDS do not reject the divinity of Jesus. They believe Jesus is part of the Godhead along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They believe all are one in purpose therefore all are one God in purpose and intention. They differ with mainstream Christianity in that they believe God the Father has a physical body and is a seperate being than Jesus. They would not agree that there is one God in three persons. They would say that there is one God in purpose and intention in three seperate individuals or persons. That is why their baptisms are not valid. It’s a subtle distinction but is great enough that the Church thought it reason to deny validiity to their baptisms.
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