Are Mormons Christians

[mtolympus]

But it does make Catholics Christians and Mormons not Christian.

The term Christian was originally coined by the people of Antioch to describe the disciples of Jesus. You have your definition which is fine with me. However, I will accept the definition given by Jesus which predates your definition.

“And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch”. (Acts 11:26). “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:35) “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.” (John 8:31)

 

[twopekinguys]

The term Christian was originally coined by the people of Antioch to describe the disciples of Jesus. You have your definition which is fine with me. However, I will accept the definition given by Jesus which predates your definition.

“And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch”. (Acts 11:26). “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:35) “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.” (John 8:31)

But, as has been established already, the Jesus that Christians speak of, is not the same jesus of Mormonism.

Your own prophet said so. Hinckley went on record stating just that.

Add to that, the teaching that the Mormon god was once a man of flesh and blood further shows we are not speaking of the same Jesus.

 

[eddie_too]

why believe the smithians are “disciples of Christ” as were those first designated as “christians” in ancient antioch?

do true disciples need a intermediary to know what their master taught them?

 

[nmgauss]

All this discussion reminds me that people are consumers and ministers are deliverers of the religion that appeals to their congregations. If a minister chooses text from the Bible or the BOM to support his/her points, and this approach is acceptable to the congregation, the effort will be successful. If the minister attempts to promote concepts that are rejected by the congregation, he/she will know right away, and not to do that again.

If the congregation is gullible and not curious, it may accept anything without the minister citing authority. More intellectual congregations, however, will ask for the foundation of an effort to persuade them to do or believe what is being cast their way.

These days, transcendence to God is what most church-goers want. The noisy southern evangelical services (Holy Rollers) strive to promote this kind of emotional environment. In others, quiet contemplative environments (as in the Society of Friends) seems to appeal to the congregations.

 

[twopekinguys]

Of course there were many other things that Jesus did. This could be talking about the Book of Mormon for all we know!

The point is John did not say that the Word created Lucifer. John said "without him (the Word) was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)

If your spouse tells you to do a load of laundry, do they have to specifically tell you to use laundry soap?

 

[Porknpie]

why believe the smithians are “disciples of Christ” as were those first designated as “christians” in ancient antioch?

do true disciples need a intermediary to know what their master taught them?

And what other disciple of Christ in the bible had 36 wives ?

PnP

 

[MJE]

Lately I have noticed I will be @ a website, not a Mormon site, and there is an ad reading MORMONS ARE CHRISTIAN w/ a link to a Mormon site.
This does not happen a lot but often enough I have started to notice.

 

[Irish_Kathy]

Lately, I’ve been going through both the Bible and the Catholic Catechism thanks to the reading plan put out by the Journey Home Network. As I’ve been reading the Catechism, there have been many passages that apply to what we’ve been discussing.

For instance, consider passage 408:

After his fall, man was not abandoned by God. On the contrary, God calls him and in a mysterious way heralds the coming victory over evil and his restoration from the fall. **

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.** Gen. 3:15.

This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium (first Gospel): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the woman and of the final victory of a decendant of hers.

 

[twopekinguys]

Lately I have noticed I will be @ a website, not a Mormon site, and there is an ad reading MORMONS ARE CHRISTIAN w/ a link to a Mormon site.
This does not happen a lot but often enough I have started to notice.

Mormons for years did not want to be viewed as Christian. It is a relatively new tactic they are using.

Have you noticed how much money they pay for PR? Just sayin

 

[Porknpie]

Mormons for years did not want to be viewed as Christian. It is a relatively new tactic they are using.

Have you noticed how much money they pay for PR? Just sayin

Not just paying for PR. Now they are set to be the largest landowner in Florida. Can you imagine the uproar if this was the Catholic Church doing such, on top of owning a shopping mall??
[
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...ing-382834-acres-in-northwest-florida/2151305](Article on Florida Land ownership here)

LDS Church = preserving and investing in assets, growing income

Catholic Church = feeding and caring for the poor.

Which is being a disciple of Christ, following him as he tells us to do??

PnP

 

[nmgauss]

Not just paying for PR. Now they are set to be the largest landowner in Florida. Can you imagine the uproar if this was the Catholic Church doing such, on top of owning a shopping mall??
[
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...ing-382834-acres-in-northwest-florida/2151305](Article on Florida Land ownership here)

LDS Church = preserving and investing in assets, growing income

Catholic Church = feeding and caring for the poor.

Which is being a disciple of Christ, following him as he tells us to do??

PnP

Missionary work uses various tactics to attract adherents. So, what’s wrong with the lavish Crystal Cathedral? What’s wrong with the elaborate St. Peter’s Basilica? The moving out of the lavish pope’s residence into less manorial digs by Pope Francis is a PR tactic.

If the Catholic Church claims to follow the teachings of Christ, they are being hypocrites when showing the princely attire of the cardinals.

 

[Miriam1947]

Missionary work uses various tactics to attract adherents. So, what’s wrong with the lavish Crystal Cathedral? What’s wrong with the elaborate St. Peter’s Basilica? The moving out of the lavish pope’s residence into less manorial digs by Pope Francis is a PR tactic.

If the Catholic Church claims to follow the teachings of Christ, they are being hypocrites when showing the princely attire of the cardinals.

No, the Catholic Church is not being hypocritical, it is following our ancestors, the Jews.

The cathedrals were built with donations, not forced tithes by parishioners. And as far as I know, the Crystal Cathedral is the same.

What the CC has not done is finance a 2 billion dollar mall rather than feed the hungry and the poor.

 

[Phntm]

Missionary work uses various tactics to attract adherents. So, what’s wrong with the lavish Crystal Cathedral? What’s wrong with the elaborate St. Peter’s Basilica? The moving out of the lavish pope’s residence into less manorial digs by Pope Francis is a PR tactic.

If the Catholic Church claims to follow the teachings of Christ, they are being hypocrites when showing the princely attire of the cardinals.

The CC didn’t build the Crystal Cathedral, it bought it from a downsizing denomination as the CC in the area needed larger digs. They essentially traded buildings, to some extent.

Others have kind hit on the financial aspect, so I will kind of hit on the iconic aspect. When you see beauty does it not inspire, do you feel closer and more thankful to God? I know when I see a beautiful church, I think of God - the purpose of the building, worship.

 

[Porknpie]

Missionary work uses various tactics to attract adherents. So, what’s wrong with the lavish Crystal Cathedral? What’s wrong with the elaborate St. Peter’s Basilica?

I take it you have been to St. Peters. What about it don’t you like? Christ built his Church upon St. Peter and literally, St Peter is under the high alter.

The moving out of the lavish pope’s residence into less manorial digs by Pope Francis is a PR tactic.

Sounds like you have some insight here to state this claim. Source please for both the Pope’s residence being lavish and for this being a PR tactic.

If the Catholic Church claims to follow the teachings of Christ, they are being hypocrites when showing the princely attire of the cardinals.

What about their attire are you objecting too? What teaching of Christ is this in conflict with. Again, source please.

PnP

 

[mtolympus]

Mormons for years did not want to be viewed as Christian. It is a relatively new tactic they are using.

What is “relatively new”?
Specifically, where do you get this information?

Mormons have always considered themselves Christians under the broad dictionary definition #1, but, they have never claimed to fit definition #2.

1. The dictionary definition: “Christian - A person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.”
2. The Trinitarian definition: Those who believe in the triune God as described in the Nicene creed. This is the official definition of “Christian” of the Catholic Church and many of the protestant churches. This is OK. Mormons do not believe in the triune God and therefore when they understand the trinitarian definition, they will agree they are not trinitarian Christians.

 

[nmgauss]

Sounds like you have some insight here to state this claim. Source please for both the Pope’s residence being lavish and for this being a PR tactic.

^ Vallely, Paul (14 March 2013). “Pope Francis profile: Jorge Mario Bergoglio, a humble man who moved out of a palace into an apartment, cooks his own meals and travels by bus”. The Independent. Retrieved 4 June 2013.

What about their attire are you objecting too? What teaching of Christ is this in conflict with. Again, source please.

nydailynews.com/news/world/popebio-article-1.1287994

 

[zaffiroborant]

Not just paying for PR. Now they are set to be the largest landowner in Florida. Can you imagine the uproar if this was the Catholic Church doing such, on top of owning a shopping mall??
[
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...ing-382834-acres-in-northwest-florida/2151305](Article on Florida Land ownership here)

LDS Church = preserving and investing in assets, growing income

Catholic Church = feeding and caring for the poor.

Which is being a disciple of Christ, following him as he tells us to do??

PnP

They spend all that money on land in FL but they can’t pay to bring home a man in need of medical care. Ron Malan was serving is fifth mission for the church, fifth mission and they can’t take care of him.

 

[Porknpie]

^ Vallely, Paul (14 March 2013). “Pope Francis profile: Jorge Mario Bergoglio, a humble man who moved out of a palace into an apartment, cooks his own meals and travels by bus”. The Independent. Retrieved 4 June 2013.

OK.

NMGauss, where do you get your claim, how do you reason that it is a PR tactic?

%between% Again, this is a nice article about a very humble man but it says nothing in response to my question nor does it back up your assertion.

PnP

 

[RebeccaJ]

Missionary work uses various tactics to attract adherents. So, what’s wrong with the lavish Crystal Cathedral? What’s wrong with the elaborate St. Peter’s Basilica? The moving out of the lavish pope’s residence into less manorial digs by Pope Francis is a PR tactic.

If the Catholic Church claims to follow the teachings of Christ, they are being hypocrites when showing the princely attire of the cardinals.

Our churches are for liturgy. The word liturgy means public work. Art s part of the public work of the churches. It teaches as well as adds beauty. An artist, architect, brick mason, etc. Have been given their gifts by God. Churches are paid for by donations, which is a form of giving back to God what is his, for the purpose of the public work the church is engaged in.

Building a shopping mall for $2 billion, or buying large tracts of land is not a public work that supports worship or charity. It is an activity that enhances the wealth of a few individuals, and does.nothing but build wealth…

There is a major difference in how Mormons view wealth as compares to Catholics and mainline Protestants. Mormons view wealth as a personal blessing. The more righteous you are, the more God favors you and so the more wealthy you’ll be.

There was a Mormon here at CAF who boldly pointed out the poverty in Catholic countries as a direct relationship to the Catholic Church being apostate. Yes, that’s right, God doesn’t favor the poor.

Mormonism exists to grow itself and make money. Period. PR is a business tactic, which Mormon leaders use because they are business men.

Cynicism regarding Pope Francis’ actions is natural. I don’t see that it is warranted. The world media is fickle, their audience is out to be entertained. My cynical side sees the world is entertained by the Pope. The Pope is not a god, and it won’t take long for the media infatuation to end. And then the world will find entertainment in criticizing human fraility or sin.

I have no interest in Mormon PR, that has the sole purpose of changing the audience’s mind. Not to bring people to God, but to bring the audience to a favorable view of itself in order to benefit itsa. Something I don’t view as necessary for God"s work at all. Maybe they think Jesus could have avoided the Cross, if only he had a good PR firm.

 

[nmgauss]

All organizations need money to do their work. Whether the money comes from donations or proceeds from owning property, the net result is that there are more resources for the organization to do its work.

I don’t see anything wrong with a religious organization owning a shopping mall. If it results in a positive cash flow, that is the main justification.