Are most people going to Hell?

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I’m actually having not exactly the same, but similar issues as Hermione posted in this thread and in another recent one.

I’m 25 years old, practicing Catholic, trying to do all the right things for the Lord Jesus. I go to Church every Sunday now. Pray every day. Belong to the Rosary Confraternity and recite it every week. Live chastely. Donate to the poor when I can. Trying to learn more about the Faith and defend it. Go to confession every few months. Et cetera…

However, I’m having problems, getting paranoid and a worsening anxiety disorder in fact, that I could ended up getting damned on a “technicality” (so to speak) or something I’m not even aware of. I tend to drive a tick over the speed limit. Listen to some modern music, not the worst of it, and I sincerely believe it does not adversely affect me now, but still… Not able to contact a few past friends or girlfriends to forgive them. Downloaded online music, Watch “The Simpsons” and “Seinfeld”. Even Seinfeld, has not adversly affected my faith as I look back on it. I’m actually repulsed by the characters. Et cetera.

Sometimes I just get discouraged and want to give up, feeling there’s no way almost anyone in this modern society to achieve eternal unity in Jesus. But, I want to… really bad.There are just so many ways to go a bit astray and some people make it seem that all you have to do is commit one small screw-up and you’re toast. I want to be a great Catholic and spread the Good News out of my own free will, and live by God’s rule by my own free will, I know that is the ideal. But right now, I’m living out of fear. I feel that I’m operating more out of fear than of love but I can’t help it. I want to operate out of love, I realize that is the ideal, but I physically and mentally just can’t get to that point now because I’m just so afraid. Am I just not mature enough in my faith yet, my diagnosed anxiety disorder just acting up, or what?

This is not even to mention what Hermione alludes to, as to all the people who have it immesurably worse than I do in this life, such as people in North Korea, the Middle East, and so many other places!

John Paul the Great says, “Be not afraid!” Great words from a great man of God, but I can’t make them a reality for me now. Not when so many things seem to be a mortal sin and damnation lurks at every corner. There doesn’t seem to be any way to be free of crippling fear in this life. I know that can’t be what the Catholic faith is about. What is a soul that sincerely and truly desires to be a good Catholic to do?

Any thoughts, suggestions, or comments would be appreciated by me, and I’m sure Hermione and many others. Thanks—
-Bob
 
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RSiscoe:
The following verse come to mind: “Just father, the world does not know thee”.

How true that is: the world likes to focus on the mercy of God. God is indeed merciful, but only “to those who fear Him”. The world does not know the “just God”, and will find out too late that God demands that we obey Him - “only those who do the will of God will enter into the Kingdom of my Father” (Mt 7)

Let us learn to fear God now, so we can obtain His mercy. And let us not be as the world who does not know, nor fear, the “just God”.
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It just doesn’t seem just to put people into a state of eternal punishment for finite sins. This is especially true if the sins aren’t like those of Hitler. Is it fair to put users of birth control, people who masturbate, people who deliberately miss Mass into Hell?

What sort of Justice is that? That’s like taking your child, raping him, and cutting his body into little pieces for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar when you told him not to.
 
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Hermione:
I’m not trying to justify the use of birth control or something like that, but I just don’t think that the people who do it are evil enough to go to Hell. I dont think anyone is.
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:hmmm:

I don’t think your question is really about how many go to hell, it is more about can God send anyone at all there and still be a God that is acceptable.

How would hell have to be so that it would be okay for God to send someone there?
 
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Hermione:
It just doesn’t seem just to put people into a state of eternal punishment for finite sins. This is especially true if the sins aren’t like those of Hitler. Is it fair to put users of birth control, people who masturbate, people who deliberately miss Mass into Hell?

What sort of Justice is that? That’s like taking your child, raping him, and cutting his body into little pieces for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar when you told him not to.
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OK, maybe my issues aren’t quite as close to Hermione’s as I thought. I think there are certain things good Catholics just really can’t do, eg. birth control, masturbation, and going out of your way to miss Mass, and I accept that. I understand why those things would offend God.
 
If you go to hell its of your doing. Don’t live your life in fear of Hell, but how your relationship is with God and how you can improve it.
 
Hermione, I can SO identify with your struggle. I think what you’re struggling with is the relative EASE which people can lose their salvation. I’ve been struggling with this for 3 years and still am, to an extent.

Mortal sin must fulfill 3 conditions: grave matter, full knowledge, and full consent. I actually think that the second and third conditions are fulfilled much less easily than many people think. Even knowing intellectually what the chuch teaches doesn’t necessarily mean that one has full knowledge of the importance and implications of a grave matter.

I think it is useful to look at the model God has given us to understand our relationship with Him–that of a parent/child. The marriage relationship also has strong parallels. These relationships, while not bullet-proof, are not so volatile that they are on-off-on-off on a frequently basis. You don’t see a couple divorcing and remarrying and divorcing and remarrying on a weekly basis. Likewise, I think it takes long-term neglect or the commission of serious sins to actually terminate our relationship with God. We shouldn’t be gripped in fear, but should rather focus on how much God loves us. We should participate in the sacraments because they are His gifts to us. He is not going to let you slip through His fingers. It would take a deliberate decision on your part to turn from Him.

So don’t worry. Focus on His love. 👍
 
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Hermione:
What sort of Justice is that? That’s like taking your child, raping him, and cutting his body into little pieces for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar when you told him not to.
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No it’s not. It’s like if the kid broke you rules and wasn’t sorry so you let him leave, allowing him to come back whenever he wanted, but he chose not to.

Remember, God is all good and all love. Being totally and eternally separated from all good and all love would unimaginably horrible. Hell is more of a result of being separated from God than a punishment. That helps me think of it anyway.
 
CatholicHoser,

I understand how you feel very well.

If you’ve read my previous posts, you notice that I also worry about sinning in “minor” ways. It’s very hard when you have the people on this forum, saints, and for that matter Jesus Himself saying that getting into Heaven is extremely difficult and supposedly most people don’t manage to do this.

I don’t want to live in fear. It doesn’t seem fair. I don’t understand the people whose faith gives them peace. (They’re the people who tell you not to worry and just trust in God. Okay, I trust God in His words that few enter by the narrow way.)

Sometimes it seems like wanting to simply enjoy life will put you into Hell. Just look at all the great Saints who subjected themselves to torturous penances to avoid Hell… this just doesn’t seem like it’s about love or goodness.

The thing I am thinking now is that I’ll do my best to be a good person, and I will not live in fear. And if even after that God decides to condemn me, then I’ll be in Hell with other people who tried to be good people but failed on technicalities.

Reading about Muslims really changed my attitude about this. They believe that eating pork and other silly things like that are sins, while beating your wife is not. Well, if Islam is true and Heaven is going to be filled with wife beaters who didn’t eat pork or drink wine, then I’m thinking Hell would be a better place.

Why not apply the same standard period. We should do our best to love everyone and to be good people, and if we get condemned after that, then God isn’t really loving and we never had a chance in the first place.
 
Hermione,

Let’s approach your problem (and you ask a valid question, one to which the Church must provide a legitimate answer) from the other side.

What sin, if any, should condemn a person to hell? If there are such sins, is once enough? If not, how many times before the person is condemned (or has condemned himself)?
 
Bob,

Go for the obvious stuff first, like be sure any anxiety medications are up to date. Also, remember that a mortal sin can’t just come up and bite you without you knowing about it. You won’t get damned for some unknown traffic violation, so to speak.

In the past, I have gotten all caught up in stuff like, “what if tomorrow I just up and decide to reject God, because, well, who knows what stupid thing I’ll do tomorrow?”

For me, the best solution to that has been to decide, who do I trust? God or me? I trust God, so I’ll just ask him to deal with this and drop it. In practical terms, this means for me to every day in a 2 second prayer to ask God, “Get me into heaven”. I know that is really simplistic, but God knows exactly what I am asking him in that prayer.

More official lingo would be to pray for the grace of a happy death or the grace of final perseverance or the grace of perfect contrition when you really need it, etc.

Remember the words of Isaiah, “A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not extinguish.” or also from the gospel, “what man will give his child a stone if he asks for bread or a snake if he asks for fish?” (paraphrased from memory). Ask God for good things. He absolutely will not give you a snake in return.
 
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CatholicHoser:
I’m actually having not exactly the same, but similar issues as Hermione posted in this thread and in another recent one.

I’m 25 years old, practicing Catholic, trying to do all the right things for the Lord Jesus. I go to Church every Sunday now. Pray every day. Belong to the Rosary Confraternity and recite it every week. Live chastely. Donate to the poor when I can. Trying to learn more about the Faith and defend it. Go to confession every few months. Et cetera…

However, I’m having problems, getting paranoid and a worsening anxiety disorder in fact, that I could ended up getting damned on a “technicality” (so to speak) or something I’m not even aware of. I tend to drive a tick over the speed limit. Listen to some modern music, not the worst of it, and I sincerely believe it does not adversely affect me now, but still… Not able to contact a few past friends or girlfriends to forgive them. Downloaded online music, Watch “The Simpsons” and “Seinfeld”. Even Seinfeld, has not adversly affected my faith as I look back on it. I’m actually repulsed by the characters. Et cetera.

Sometimes I just get discouraged and want to give up, feeling there’s no way almost anyone in this modern society to achieve eternal unity in Jesus. But, I want to… really bad.There are just so many ways to go a bit astray and some people make it seem that all you have to do is commit one small screw-up and you’re toast. I want to be a great Catholic and spread the Good News out of my own free will, and live by God’s rule by my own free will, I know that is the ideal. But right now, I’m living out of fear. I feel that I’m operating more out of fear than of love but I can’t help it. I want to operate out of love, I realize that is the ideal, but I physically and mentally just can’t get to that point now because I’m just so afraid. Am I just not mature enough in my faith yet, my diagnosed anxiety disorder just acting up, or what?

This is not even to mention what Hermione alludes to, as to all the people who have it immesurably worse than I do in this life, such as people in North Korea, the Middle East, and so many other places!

John Paul the Great says, “Be not afraid!” Great words from a great man of God, but I can’t make them a reality for me now. Not when so many things seem to be a mortal sin and damnation lurks at every corner. There doesn’t seem to be any way to be free of crippling fear in this life. I know that can’t be what the Catholic faith is about. What is a soul that sincerely and truly desires to be a good Catholic to do?

Any thoughts, suggestions, or comments would be appreciated by me, and I’m sure Hermione and many others. Thanks—
-Bob
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THERE IS PROGRESS IN THE STRUGGLE. WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND YOU HAVE A GOOD HANDLE ON THIS. FIGHT THE SIN AND IT WILL ALWAYS BECOME LESS. TRY CONFESSION A LITTLE MORE OFTEN. THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TAKEN ABACK BY SMALLER SIN IS NOT A BAD THING, BUT YOU HAVE TO APPROACH IT THE SAME WAY. iFEEL AS YOU DO EXACTLY,RETURNING TO THE CHURCH AFTER 25 YEARS. IF YOU ARE ALWAYS SEEKING HIS LOVE YOU WILL ALWAYS BE SIFTING DOWN TO THE SMALLEST THINGS. IT’S GOOD, JUST APPROACH IT WITH PATIENT DISTASTE, RESOLUTENESS, RESTING IN THE LOVE OF HE WHO LOVES. 👍

PEACE AND LOVE.
 
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Hermione:
I don’t want to live in fear.
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Jesus does not want you to live in fear either. Many times he told his disciples, that includes us, to “not be afraid”. Pope John Paul II’s first public comments were “do not be afraid”.
Sometimes it seems like wanting to simply enjoy life will put you into Hell.
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It all depends on how you intend to do that. Will you trust God and do it His way or will you do it your way. He told us that if we love and serve him our joy will be complete.
The thing I am thinking now is that I’ll do my best to be a good person
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God, through His commandments and the Church as His representative have shown us how to be “good”. It does not serve us to dismiss, or diminsh, those things that God and the Church have declared to be serious matters.
 
In response to an older post:
At the same time, Lewis’ picture of Hell is not the Catholic picture. Once you’re in Hell, there’s no way out.
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I always pictured Lewis’ bus as a device for the reader to compare between the two. Lewis was very catholic in his approach. . .let us recall that Divorce is fiction; theological fiction with a taste of truth in it.
And you don’t go to Hell because you want to go to Hell, you go to Hell because you want to use birth control (95% or so of American Catholics do this, hard to believe that they don’t know the Church teaches against it), or you want to masturbate, or have premarital sex, or some other thing like that.
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In a way, as Lewis says, it is IN FACT that we do choose to go, that is, we choose to cling to our sinful life rather than the one God wishes for us, with Him.
 
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CatholicHoser:
I’m having problems, getting paranoid and a worsening anxiety disorder in fact, that I could ended up getting damned on a “technicality” (so to speak) or something I’m not even aware of.
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Our loving God isn’t laying in wait for you to mess up so He can take your life at that very moment and send you to hell. God wants us to be with Him in Heaven. He gives us chance after chance, mercy after mercy, grace after grace and He wants us to choose Him!

I heard somewhere that our Perfect God will take each person at the perfect moment when they are most ready for Him. I don’t know if that’s true, but I like to think of it like that.

If I believe I’ve commited a mortal sin, I go to confession as soon as I can, (and I pray that I live long enough to make it to confession.) If God really wanted to send me to hell, He could have taken me when I was away from the Church. But in His mercy He didn’t. I now realize that I won’t live forever, and I don’t want to walk away from Him again because I know I’d risk spending an eternity in Hell.

If you concerned about people going to hell, pray this little prayer often:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph–save souls!
 
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gardenswithkids:
Our loving God isn’t laying in wait for you to mess up so He can take your life at that very moment and send you to hell. God wants us to be with Him in Heaven. He gives us chance after chance, mercy after mercy, grace after grace and He wants us to choose Him!

I heard somewhere that our Perfect God will take each person at the perfect moment when they are most ready for Him. I don’t know if that’s true, but I like to think of it like that.

If I believe I’ve commited a mortal sin, I go to confession as soon as I can, (and I pray that I live long enough to make it to confession.) If God really wanted to send me to hell, He could have taken me when I was away from the Church. But in His mercy He didn’t. I now realize that I won’t live forever, and I don’t want to walk away from Him again because I know I’d risk spending an eternity in Hell.

If you concerned about people going to hell, pray this little prayer often:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph–save souls!
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Let God chose who to condemn, not us…that’s really the only way I have found peace with this questoin. Follow your faith to the absolute best of your ability, truly try to follow God and His teachings, make it your mission to bring others to Him for their own eternal souls, but after that, leave it to God to decide…we only know as much as the Earth in front of us, God knows everything, therefore do not condemn others because we can never know how He will judge in the end. It will be His decision, and it will be regardless of how hard we argue about it on this forum.

God Bless:)

In Him,
Brittany
 
I think Hermione and others are missing an essential point in this discussion, a point which I made earlier: we are not in this life alone!

Hermione, you say it seems near impossible to be saved and live a “good” life and obey all Jesus’ commandments. You know what? You’re right! It’s absolutely impossible to live up to God’s standards when we try to ourselves.

That’s why God, through Jesus Christ, gives us grace to enable us to live Christian lives. Grace is amazing (to quote the old spiritual)! Grace literally enables us to do things we could never do on our own, like forgive someone who really hurt you, or like saying no to sexual desires, no to birth control, and yes to church.

You’re living in fear because you’re trying to do it alone! Stop! Accept God’s grace through Jesus Christ and take a deep breath. Put your trust in His ability to bring you through. Go to confession and receive the Eucharist as often as you can. Through the sacraments, Jesus will give you the strength to resist sin and temptation.

Truly, we can “do all things through Christ, who gives [us] the strength.”

And I stress again, please pray! You cannot get anywhere without prayer. I promise you that. Please please pray!

God bless, Hermione. You’re in my prayers! Don’t give up the fight! The reward is worth it!
 
Indeed, the opinion that the majority of people will be damned is not so uniform as people have made it out to be. I quote from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia’s article on Predestination…
By relative number is meant the numerical relation between the predestined and the reprobate. Will the majority of the human race be saved or will they be damned? Will one-half be damned the other half saved? In this question the opinion of the rigorists is opposed to the milder view of the optimists. Pointing to several texts of the Bible (Matt., vii, 14; xxii, 14) and to sayings of great spiritual doctors, the rigorists defend as probable the thesis that not only most Christians but also most Catholics are doomed to eternal damnation. Almost repulsive in its tone is Massillon’s sermon on the small number of the elect. Yet even St. Thomas (loc. cit., a. 7) asserted: “Pauciores sunt qui salvantur” (only the smaller number of men are saved). And a few years ago, when the Jesuit P. Castelein (“Le rigorisme, le nombre des élus et la doctrine du salut”, 2nd ed., Brussels, 1899) impugned this theory with weighty arguments, he was sharply opposed by the Redemptorist P. Godts (“De paucitate salvandorum quid docuerunt sancti”, 3rd ed., Brussels, 1899). That the number of the elect cannot be so very small is evident from the Apocalypse (vii, 9). When one hears the rigorists, one is tempted to repeat Dieringer’s bitter remark: “Can it be that the Church actually exists in order to people hell?” The truth is that neither the one nor the other can be proved from Scripture or Tradition (cf. Heinrich-Gutberlet, “Dogmat. Theologie”, Mainz, 1897, VIII, 363 sq.). But supplementing these two sources by arguments drawn from reason we may safely defend as probable the opinion that the majority of Christians, especially of Catholics, will be saved. If we add to this relative number the overwhelming majority of non-Christians (Jews, Mahommedans, heathens), then Gener (“Theol. dogmat. scholast.”, Rome, 1767, II, 242 sq.) is probably right when he assumes the salvation of half of the human race, lest “it should be said to the shame and offence of the Divine majesty and clemency that the [future] Kingdom of Satan is larger than the Kingdom of Christ” (cf. W. Schneider, “Das andere Leben”, 9th ed., Paderborn, 1908, 476 sq.).
I myself also hold that at least half of the human race will be saved.
 
In reply to Bob,
It certainly sounds like you’re doing alot of things right. Going to mass, confessing often (I’d say confess more like 2-4 times per month), and praying the Rosary are all excellent things.
With regard to mortal sin, you don’t accidentally sin mortally. You must choose to do it. I reassure myself with this, because I’m tortured by impious thoughts at mass/during prayer/etc. I know that this is from the Evil One to distract me from the sacred actions taking place and rob me of my joy. A thought, an action, anything isn’t a mortal sin unless you choose to do it, knowing full well that it is gravely wrong. (Just don’t try to feign ignorance, that doesn’t fly). And if you do sin mortally, make a good act of contrition right away and go to confession ASAP (and don’t give up on prayer/trying to do good just because you’re not in the state of grace, I’ve been guilty of this, and it’s not good). The best thing to do is examine your conscience every once in a while (for example, before every mass).
To me, you sound like an excellent Catholic and a real man of God. Remember, the good Jesus didn’t just love you a little bit, he loved you fully, with his whole life. He loved you enough to die for you! His death was no easy and cheap thing, but apparently he thought that having YOU in heaven with him for eternity was worth enduring a cruel death by torture accompanied by the mockery of the masses. So, be at peace! Don’t let your mind play tricks on you. Instead, let the desire to be with Jesus in the Eucharist consume you to the point where you don’t even want to sin any more. This is what is currently happening to me (I am a new Catholic, I was received into the Church & confirmed at Easter Vigil). Not that I love Jesus enough that I completely don’t want to sin anymore, but that I see this great love starting to take root within me!

Love,

Matt
 
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mattkennel:
Indeed, the opinion that the majority of people will be damned is not so uniform as people have made it out to be. I quote from the Old Catholic Encyclopedia’s article on Predestination…
By relative number is meant the numerical relation between the predestined and the reprobate. Will the majority of the human race be saved or will they be damned? Will one-half be damned the other half saved? In this question the opinion of the rigorists is opposed to the milder view of the optimists. Pointing to several texts of the Bible (Matt., vii, 14; xxii, 14) and to sayings of great spiritual doctors, the rigorists defend as probable the thesis that not only most Christians but also most Catholics are doomed to eternal damnation. Almost repulsive in its tone is Massillon’s sermon on the small number of the elect. Yet even St. Thomas (loc. cit., a. 7) asserted: “Pauciores sunt qui salvantur” (only the smaller number of men are saved). And a few years ago, when the Jesuit P. Castelein (“Le rigorisme, le nombre des élus et la doctrine du salut”, 2nd ed., Brussels, 1899) impugned this theory with weighty arguments, he was sharply opposed by the Redemptorist P. Godts (“De paucitate salvandorum quid docuerunt sancti”, 3rd ed., Brussels, 1899). That the number of the elect cannot be so very small is evident from the Apocalypse (vii, 9). When one hears the rigorists, one is tempted to repeat Dieringer’s bitter remark: “Can it be that the Church actually exists in order to people hell?” The truth is that neither the one nor the other can be proved from Scripture or Tradition (cf. Heinrich-Gutberlet, “Dogmat. Theologie”, Mainz, 1897, VIII, 363 sq.). But supplementing these two sources by arguments drawn from reason we may safely defend as probable the opinion that the majority of Christians, especially of Catholics, will be saved. If we add to this relative number the overwhelming majority of non-Christians (Jews, Mahommedans, heathens), then Gener (“Theol. dogmat. scholast.”, Rome, 1767, II, 242 sq.) is probably right when he assumes the salvation of half of the human race, lest “it should be said to the shame and offence of the Divine majesty and clemency that the [future] Kingdom of Satan is larger than the Kingdom of Christ” (cf. W. Schneider, “Das andere Leben”, 9th ed., Paderborn, 1908, 476 sq.).
I myself also hold that at least half of the human race will be saved.
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I like this other view on it. I’m really bothered by people who say that most of us are going to Hell. I’m ashamed to say that I’ve said this to other people myself.

I’ve been thinking about it more, and the main reason it bothers me is this:

**As I understand Catholic teaching, God knows what we’re going to choose before we’re ever created, why would He create a soul when He knows it will damn itself for eternity? **
 
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