Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

[ralphinal]

Ok, since we are getting some feedback concerning the “The Case of the People of `Uraynah” and if we were to hypothetically reverse the roles of Jesus and Mohammad I am curious what would Jesus have done?

If Jesus was given the opportunity to pass judgment upon these eight men what would have Jesus done? Anyone care to give that a shot?

Render unto Ceasar…

Jesus never said that the government cannot try and punish criminals. What he said was that those who were injured HAD to forgive. It is the hard part of being Christian. We are to forgive those who harm us and pray for those who hate us. Islam says it is a meritorious thing to do, but not required. One faith takes the high road, the other the path of least resistance.

And now I will ask: who said that Allah said that no prophet could sin? Who said that Allah said that Muhammed is under a different set of rules?

 

[Jimzz12]

a Muslim is not allowed to have any girl/boy friend. So , if any Muslim’s sis/niece/ daughter goes out for dating with world’s most handsome young man , it’s a sin . The person should give her a big slap ( minimum ) & hopefully give him a light beating .

With the permission of bride & parents , marriage of a 9 year old girl is allowed but not a must. So , if a girl is mature enough , parents can arrange her marriage but **must not force her. **

No minimum or maximum age gap is mentioned between spouses in holy Quran. So , if parents of a girl ( under no pressure ) thinks a
man is trustworthy & God fearing person & the girl is ready for marriage , no one has right to object.

So , personally I like to remind them that it’s their own holy book that allowed all these. I can see , U have a lot of misconceptions about the Last Prophet (pbuh). Instead of listening to anti-Islamic propaganda , u should know from reliable sources.

This muslim woman is wrong. The Sharia Law is specific that it teaches an age difference of no more than 5 years difference between the spouses. My source, the Sharia University of Kabul. I used to drop off a good friend there for her classes. She is now a lawyer.

Of couse you’ll say that’s “a western thing and women shouldn’t be lawyers.” So she must not be telling the truth? give me a break.

the rules here on Catholic forums distinctly and explicitly say no proselytizing other religions. I have gone through hundreds of your posts and you have consistently attacked and vilified “Westerners”. I welcome your discussion but please remember whose house you are in. We have shown you more than enough hospitality and compassion.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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This muslim woman is wrong. The Sharia Law is specific that it teaches an age difference of no more than 5 years difference between the spouses.

interesting . I am a born Muslim & this is the first time I heard about it. Pl. ask your friend to mention the verse from Quran , thanks.

… women shouldn’t be lawyers." So she must not be telling the truth?

there is no bar that a Muslim Woman can’t be a lawyer. I guess , u misunderstood her. May be , she told u about the local culture that normally age difference is 5 between spouses or may be she prefers it . There is no such verse in Quran , nor any hadith that says so.

Prophet was 15 years younger than his first wife , Mother Aisha (pbuh) was much younger than him . These show that there is no specific age gap in Islam . If two parties agree , if parents of the bride don’t object , age gap could be more than 5. To my best of knowledge , no major holy book has any such law that maximum age gap should be 5.

We have shown you more than enough hospitality and compassion.

yap , by bashing my respected Prophet (pbuh) day & night . After joining here , I started a thread for bashing Islam ; so that hopefully some Christians don’t bash Islam/ Quran / Last Prophet (pbuh) in each thread. But no luck

 

[Jimzz12]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
I guess , u misunderstood her. May be , she told u about the local culture that normally age difference is 5 between spouses or may be she prefers it . There is no such verse in Quran , nor any hadith that says so.

It’s terribly nice of you to guess that I misunderstand my friends. Perhaps the marriage laws in Afghanistan have misunderstood the Mohammed. I recommend you contact the government at Karzai palace and straighten things out. I have dqelt in the misery of the poor enslaved muslims. They seek Christ. Why does islam not allow them the freedom to choose?

 

[emarc]

Well the problem I run into is that I don’t believe in Christ’s divinity (it’s the rationalist in me) nor am I trying to prove or disprove Jesus as a divine being. I certainly am not trying to disprove Muhammad as a prophet but I am simply trying to understand the facts to how I see and interpret them. For me it would be much more realistic to think Jesus was a prophet led by God than that he was a God and divine. There are major differences to how Jesus and Muhammad are portrayed but is that because of God or because the power of man wanting to believe in something that may or may not be correct?

prophets in the OT had foretold of Jesus’ coming, say at least about 800 years before he was born. and these were specifics, not general prophesies. also not just by one prophet but several all recorded in the OT at various times. chances of all these prophesies coming to fruition are staggering; pat robertson said it’s mind-blowing. if there was no prophesy about Jesus being the lamb of God who’ll save the world existed, his being the Son of God and his divinity could be questioned. you have to look at the fruits of his ministry which is all about LOVE. not by sword or threats or violence did he multiply Christianity by thousand fold but through the power of the Holy Spirit lived in the martyred lives of the saints. there are plenty more evidence to his humanity yet Divine nature but they are foolish to the learned.
God bless.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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It’s terribly nice of you to guess that I misunderstand my friends.

U clamied " The Sharia Law is specific that it teaches an age difference of no more than 5 years difference between the spouses. There is no verse in holy Quran that says so neither any hadith that supports your claim .

Perhaps the marriage laws in Afghanistan have misunderstood the Mohammed.

They misunderstood the God Almighty. God never said age gap can not be more than 5.

They seek Christ. Why does islam not allow them the freedom to choose?

If any Muslim wants to become a Christian & claim that s/he is under threat , the west will come forward to rescue him/her . In my country , many Muslims became Christians. Never heard that they were killed. Morning Star claimed he heard of one killing . Even if his claim is true , others are freely worshipping Jesus (pbuh).

 

[famdigy]

I was curious to find out if Muslims are actually comfortable with how Muhammed behaved himself. I know that there are quite a lot of Muslims that devout themselves to God. Which I highly respect, really…I do. I don`t believe every Muslim is a terrorist, but I am eager to see if these God-fearing Muslims actually justify Mohammeds actions.

Benjamin, regarding the prophets’ (s) marriage to Aisha at age 6, not all Muslims agree that was the case, while most sunni muslims accept this as true and I can’t speak for them, there are many that consider these narrations as suspect. The majority of Shia Muslims on the other hand outright reject this belief. It’s not fair to brush all of us with the same stroke so to speak.

You say you haven’t done the research yourself, then question us about accepting his actions based on anti-muslim comments you’ve read from others. I think you should take the time to read his biography from Muslim sources. Below is a link to a biography about his life that i’ve enjoyed reading and I hope you’ll find it enlightening as well.

al-islam.org/lifeprophet/

 

[Sam_777]

Benjamin, regarding the prophets’ (s) marriage to Aisha at age 6, not all Muslims agree that was the case, while most sunni muslims accept this as true and I can’t speak for them, there are many that consider these narrations as suspect. The majority of Shia Muslims on the other hand outright reject this belief. It’s not fair to brush all of us with the same stroke so to speak.

You wrote “sunni” with small s and wrote “Shia” with capital S while sunni represent around 90% of Muslims!

However, also your Shiat “Ayatollah Khomeini” allowing pedophilia :
“A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man’s four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl’s sister.”
http://www.ansar.org/images/khumaini.jpg
http://www.ansar.org/images/tmtoar2.jpg
(E) (A)

 

[famdigy]

You wrote “sunni” with small s and wrote “Shia” with capital S while sunni represent around 90% of Muslims!

However, also your Shiat “Ayatollah Khomeini” allowing pedophilia

first of all, he is not my shiat as you put it as I’m not a khomini follower.
2nd, that was his opinion, khomini is not God, or Prophet or Imam from Ahlul Bayt, therefore his opinions are not shared by every shia. Here is my evidence in the link below

alqatrah.org/question/index.php?id=238

Question: what is the dispute between the khomini followers and the Shirazi followers, is this difference ideological or is it personal?

Answer: the dispute is not personal, rather it is jurisprudistic (relating to islamic law / sharia)… in any case, it shouldn’t cause divisions among the beleiving shias. We should hold fast to the teachings of the past imam… it’s not necessary to follow the opinions of every person who creates fatwas from under the umbrella of his ideas (i.e. khomini)

so you see Sam, the scholars have differences of opinion among themselves, and its perfectly fine to disagree with them when those opinions are out of line.

 

[Sam_777]

I’m not a khomini follower.

Its good that you don’t follow Ayatollah Khomeini, maybe that light within you will guide you one day to the right religion.

 

[jakasaki]

first of all, he is not my shiat as you put it as I’m not a khomini follower.
2nd, that was his opinion, khomini is not God, or Prophet or Imam from Ahlul Bayt, therefore his opinions are not shared by every shia. Here is my evidence in the link below

alqatrah.org/question/index.php?id=238

Question: what is the dispute between the khomini followers and the Shirazi followers, is this difference ideological or is it personal?

Answer: the dispute is not personal, rather it is jurisprudistic (relating to islamic law / sharia)… in any case, it shouldn’t cause divisions among the beleiving shias. We should hold fast to the teachings of the past imam… it’s not necessary to follow the opinions of every person who creates fatwas from under the umbrella of his ideas (i.e. khomini)

so you see Sam, the scholars have differences of opinion among themselves, and its perfectly fine to disagree with them when those opinions are out of line.

Famdigy,

I remember a while back you told us you were Shia because you explained the whole “temporary marriage” deal to us based on Shia beliefs and I also remember that the other muslim members on the board never heard about it being practiced today because it was banned.

You see, I do pay attention and learn something new every day on these boards.

Besides, I’ve been on other forums where the Sunny bash the Shia not just for temp marriages but for their whole belief.

Sorry folks if I took this reply off the main track…

 

[rtconstant]

I think topic is becoming that of beating a dead horse on these forums. Although the actions themselves would not be tolerated today we can’t speak for how people lived +1300 years ago. Even from researching this topic and speaking to Muslims concerning it I still can’t see the necessity of the action but it isn’t for me to judge. There is evidence that women were married off just as young (maybe not 6 but close enough) in European and other Middle Eastern countries around the same time. All we can hope is that this would not be allowed to happen, no matter the country or the religion in today’s society.

While I generally approve of the idea of judging our ancestors by the standards of their day and not by our modern perceptions, I think there is still a flaw here in this reasoning. If we’re only judging Mohamed as a warlord or monarch of his time then yes we can wink at his indiscretions. I mean I’ll be the first to admit that as a warlord he wasn’t really that bad of guy. He was certainly reasonably fair in distributing booty amongst his warriors. He also was not all that bad to those he defeated as warlords go.

However, that is not what he claimed to be. Nor is it what his follower’s claim that he was. No he is the “seal of prophets”. We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless. He is also the best of men and so the best example to follow. The problem is that if he truly was supposed to possess all of these messianic like qualities he must be held to higher standard. The age that he lived in cannot be an excuse for his personal behavior.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today? While Mohammed may have been exceptional as a war lord of the ancient world, he leaves much to be desired as an eternal role model for humanity. If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”. If however, we want to claim him as the last and greatest prophet, and to be sinless, then he must be held accountable for his actions.

Even if the claims of Islam about Mohammed were relaxed a great deal it would make a difference. The old Jewish prophets were flawed men. Sometimes it was those very flaws that made their messages powerful. Christian saints have also been flawed individuals. Since Muslims though insist that Mohammed is the best person ever they open him up for scrutiny. The same goes for Jesus, since Christians claim that He was sinless. The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.

 

[neploho]

While I generally approve of the idea of judging our ancestors by the standards of their day and not by our modern perceptions, I think there is still a flaw here in this reasoning. If we’re only judging Mohamed as a warlord or monarch of his time then yes we can wink at his indiscretions. I mean I’ll be the first to admit that as a warlord he wasn’t really that bad of guy. He was certainly reasonably fair in distributing booty amongst his warriors. He also was not all that bad to those he defeated as warlords go.

However, that is not what he claimed to be. Nor is it what his follower’s claim that he was. No he is the “seal of prophets”. We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless. He is also the best of men and so the best example to follow. The problem is that if he truly was supposed to possess all of these messianic like qualities he must be held to higher standard. The age that he lived in cannot be an excuse for his personal behavior.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today? While Mohammed may have been exceptional as a war lord of the ancient world, he leaves much to be desired as an eternal role model for humanity. If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”. If however, we want to claim him as the last and greatest prophet, and to be sinless, then he must be held accountable for his actions.

Even if the claims of Islam about Mohammed were relaxed a great deal it would make a difference. The old Jewish prophets were flawed men. Sometimes it was those very flaws that made their messages powerful. Christian saints have also been flawed individuals. Since Muslims though insist that Mohammed is the best person ever they open him up for scrutiny. The same goes for Jesus, since Christians claim that He was sinless. The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.

Very good point.

 

[josie_L]

Am I the only one who found this ironic? I suppose what we should really aim for is a return to the first century morals of Jewish dissidents in an obscure region of the Roman empire.

What are the first century morals to which you refer to, when what Jesus taught was meant to be timeless:

1. loving your enemies and praying for them.
2. Doing good to others
3. Sacrificing for those who need you (even your life)
4. Helping the widows and the orphans, i.e., the poor.
5. Being kind, patient,courteous. . . etc.
6. Honouring your mother and father
7. Being Chaste (which might be a good idea with all the STDs out there)
8. Learning to be humble
9. To suffer without complaint and accept with equanimity when things don’t go your way
10. Being honourable and just in all your ways (in thought and action).
11. Learning to hope for the best even in the worst of times.

And lastly, curbing your anger when you rather blast the heck out of someone.

P.S. There is so much good to be had when one truly lives as Jesus taught.

 

[Seeker]

While I generally approve of the idea of judging our ancestors by the standards of their day and not by our modern perceptions, I think there is still a flaw here in this reasoning. If we’re only judging Mohamed as a warlord or monarch of his time then yes we can wink at his indiscretions. I mean I’ll be the first to admit that as a warlord he wasn’t really that bad of guy. He was certainly reasonably fair in distributing booty amongst his warriors. He also was not all that bad to those he defeated as warlords go.

However, that is not what he claimed to be. Nor is it what his follower’s claim that he was. No he is the “seal of prophets”. We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless. He is also the best of men and so the best example to follow. The problem is that if he truly was supposed to possess all of these messianic like qualities he must be held to higher standard. The age that he lived in cannot be an excuse for his personal behavior.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today? While Mohammed may have been exceptional as a war lord of the ancient world, he leaves much to be desired as an eternal role model for humanity. If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”. If however, we want to claim him as the last and greatest prophet, and to be sinless, then he must be held accountable for his actions.

Excellent Point!!!…if Muhammad is considered to be the last prophet and a prophet for all mankind a universal prophet, then his actions are also universal!!!..

Even if the claims of Islam about Mohammed were relaxed a great deal it would make a difference. The old Jewish prophets were flawed men. Sometimes it was those very flaws that made their messages powerful. Christian saints have also been flawed individuals. Since Muslims though insist that Mohammed is the best person ever they open him up for scrutiny. The same goes for Jesus, since Christians claim that He was sinless. The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.

 

[Seeker]

meedo:
Meedo, what sources are you using that mentions Mary age as being 12 yrs?. There is no where in the Gospels that claim that, unless you are interpreting “young women” or “young virign” as meaning 12 yrs. This would be pure speculation on both your part and of those that use it and other verses that Mary’s age must be 12 yrs.

I don’ think there is any speculation as to Aisha’s age, is there?. The hadiths clearly state Mumhammad married Aisha at 6 yrs and consumated the marriage at 9 yrs. My question is why did Muhammad marry Aisha at 6 yrs of age?. I know Aisha was Abu Bakr’s daugther, but why did he do it, was it political?. I know you say it was culturally accepted, but was it cultrually accepted for men of 51 & 53 yrs of age to marry girls of 6 yrs?. Are there other examples of other muslims at the time of Muhammad that did what he did.

Muslims say Allah revealed Aisha to Muhammad in a dream that she was going to be the mother of the belivers, which is fine, but why did he have to marry her, or atleast wait till she was 9 yrs?..
personal note:
personally i think 9 yrs is also very young, i can’t imagine it, but my opinion. I don’t know if you have children esp a daughter, I don’t know if you would find it acceptable. I feel if Muhammad was a universal prophet, then his actions are also universal, wouldn’t you agree??

Seeker

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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… We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless.

Having a young wife is NOT a sin , not according to holy Quran , not according to any major holy books.

Who has the right to decide what is a sin ? Surely , it’s the God Almighty . If God did not say it’s a sin , His slaves must not condemn a person for having a wife lawfully.

It’s not a must for any man to have a young
wife ; but neither should he hates a legal marriage.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today?

lol , funny. By today’s values / morals , school girls who are considered tooooo young for marriages can have unlimited partners , can have babies outside marriage . Many People have no problem in accepting/ tolerating these unethical deeds in the name of freedom etc.

But as believers , we must give importance what is lawful according to God’s laws , not what is okay by human being. Because , we came from Him & will be back to Him & will be judged by His laws , NOT by men made laws.

If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”.

Having a young wife can’t dismiss him as the Seal of the Prophet . What’s the relationship between marriage & disqualifying one as seal of the Prophets ? Does your holy book says that Seal of the Prophets can’t have a
young wife ?

link on the Last Prophet (pbuh)

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176631626843&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/Topic/DIESectionList

 

[Booklover]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Having a young wife is NOT a sin , not according to holy Quran , not according to any major holy books.

Who has the right to decide what is a sin ? Surely , it’s the God Almighty . If God did not say it’s a sin , His slaves must not condemn a person for having a wife lawfully.

It’s not a must for any man to have a young
wife ; but neither should he hates a legal marriage.

lol , funny. By today’s values / morals , school girls who are considered tooooo young for marriages can have unlimited partners , can have babies outside marriage . Many People have no problem in accepting/ tolerating these unethical deeds in the name of freedom etc.

But as believers , we must give importance what is lawful according to God’s laws , not what is okay by human being. Because , we came from Him & will be back to Him & will be judged by His laws , NOT by men made laws.

Having a young wife can’t dismiss him as the Seal of the Prophet . What’s the relationship between marriage & disqualifying one as seal of the Prophets ? Does your holy book says that Seal of the Prophets can’t have a
young wife ?

link on the Last Prophet (pbuh)

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176631626843&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/Topic/DIESectionList

You apparently condemn single women having babies out of wedlock, but do not see that your prophet’s actions were very sinful as well! Muhammad’s actions are a far cry from the actions of someone calling himself “a model for all mankind”! He could do anything, claim that God told him to do so, and sin became “holy”! Anb because of what he did, you now have such despicable things as “thighing”!

And you still have not answered the question as to why a man in his fifties would want to marry a child!

Vickie

 

[jakasaki]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Having a young wife is NOT a sin , not according to holy Quran , not according to any major holy books.

Who has the right to decide what is a sin ? Surely , it’s the God Almighty . If God did not say it’s a sin , His slaves must not condemn a person for having a wife lawfully.

It’s not a must for any man to have a young
wife ; but neither should he hates a legal marriage.

lol , funny. By today’s values / morals , school girls who are considered tooooo young for marriages can have unlimited partners , can have babies outside marriage . Many People have no problem in accepting/ tolerating these unethical deeds in the name of freedom etc.

But as believers , we must give importance what is lawful according to God’s laws , not what is okay by human being. Because , we came from Him & will be back to Him & will be judged by His laws , NOT by men made laws.

Having a young wife can’t dismiss him as the Seal of the Prophet . What’s the relationship between marriage & disqualifying one as seal of the Prophets ? Does your holy book says that Seal of the Prophets can’t have a
young wife ?

link on the Last Prophet (pbuh)

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1176631626843&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam/Topic/DIESectionList

We are not talking about a common Arab man in the 7th century - we are talking about a prophet of God.

If mohamad was say a 7th century historian or scientist or king with 9 wives and one of them was as young as Aisha, no one here would be discussing mohamad the historian or mohamad the scientist or king.

We are talking about a person of a religious nature, claimed to be a prophet of God, claimed new revelations making islam tops, making the koran tops, making himself tops leaving Christianity and Judaism, the Bible and the Torah in the dust as lesser Holy Books and religions because islam and allah and mohamad are superior.

A person who went into battles, wars, raided caravans… well you already know because we’ve written it here before.

It’s amazing between his bouncing around from wife to wife to wife, wife and to slaves, raging wars and turning the people of the land upside down and conquering, that he had time to preach.

That’s what this is all about!

 

[inJESUS]

While I generally approve of the idea of judging our ancestors by the standards of their day and not by our modern perceptions, I think there is still a flaw here in this reasoning. If we’re only judging Mohamed as a warlord or monarch of his time then yes we can wink at his indiscretions. I mean I’ll be the first to admit that as a warlord he wasn’t really that bad of guy. He was certainly reasonably fair in distributing booty amongst his warriors. He also was not all that bad to those he defeated as warlords go.

However, that is not what he claimed to be. Nor is it what his follower’s claim that he was. No he is the “seal of prophets”. We are supposed to believe that his life was sinless. He is also the best of men and so the best example to follow. The problem is that if he truly was supposed to possess all of these messianic like qualities he must be held to higher standard. The age that he lived in cannot be an excuse for his personal behavior.

Why would anyone follow the teachings and example of a man who led a less moral life than the average person today? While Mohammed may have been exceptional as a war lord of the ancient world, he leaves much to be desired as an eternal role model for humanity. If we want to excuse Mohammed’s excesses because of his era that’s completely legitimate, but then we can’t claim him as the “Seal of the Prophets”. If however, we want to claim him as the last and greatest prophet, and to be sinless, then he must be held accountable for his actions.

Even if the claims of Islam about Mohammed were relaxed a great deal it would make a difference. The old Jewish prophets were flawed men. Sometimes it was those very flaws that made their messages powerful. Christian saints have also been flawed individuals. Since Muslims though insist that Mohammed is the best person ever they open him up for scrutiny. The same goes for Jesus, since Christians claim that He was sinless. The difference is that while people are still trying to live up to the standards of Jesus, humanity has passed Mohammed in moral character.

excellent post .

Add to it that morality and God’s law progresses and does not regress. The standard will not shift from Jesus’ model to a man who had desire for a married woman, to a man who married his adopted son’s wife, to a man who was caught with his sex slave on his wive’s bed, to a man who cursed and taught others to curse, to a man who shifted among 11 women on a single night, just to name a few.

If Muhammad was meant to be a universal model, either Allah failed miserably or he’s testing our intelligence.