Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

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How about giving your Christian brothers the benefit of the doubt? I wonder where all this political correctness comes from in you.
Political correctness and careful, rational thought are not the same thing, Grace. If I see someone post something that looks like non-sense to me, aren’t I entitled to ask them a few questions? If what they’re saying is evidently true, I’m sure they will be able to persuade me to see things their way.
Then why dont you start to contructively take part in our discussions sir? All you do is critisize those of us who actually struggle with the texts of Koran and Hadith and actually read the sources . Why dont you CHECK out our references and quotes and tell us on that basis if we have misquoted…
I feel like I’m being constructive. I criticized Agabriel for being rude, true. But the rest of my post was just questions. He doesn’t have to answer them if he doesn’t want to. I almost feel like you’re objecting to being asked to think a little more deeply about what he’s saying.
Where where you when Hadi admitted she had made up her own news story and attributed it to Reuters just in order to prove her point? I heard no protests from you then or at any other time. What does this mean?
It means that I attributed that to an honest mistake on Hadi’s part. I have no reason to think she’s a dishonest person.
Does it also sound like an insult to you when allah says Jesus is not son of God, that Christians are cursed and that Muslims should wage war against Jews and Christians? Read the Koran for your self… before I quote I see the context. Try it.
I have been reading the Qu’ran recently (re-reading it actually), and it is bracing. I don’t know that everything you’ve written above is in it, in plain terms that cannot be contested in one way or another. I’ve seen verses that seem to be saying what you’re alleging, and ones that seem to contradict it (with the exception of the Jesus is God part of course; Muslims simply don’t believe Jesus is God).
 
Political correctness and careful, rational thought are not the same thing, Grace.** If I see someone post something that looks like non-sense to me, aren’t I entitled to ask them a few questions**? If what they’re saying is evidently true, I’m sure they will be able to persuade me to see things their way.
I could be wrong here, but I don’t believe I’ve seen you step in and correct or challange or debate planten for clarifications on his absurd posts. 🤷
 
I have only ever met Muslims who were ignorant about Christianity… covenant history, mosaic law and the concepts of sacrifice in the different covenants, atonement and salvation, the expectation of Messias and the concept of this…etc. It has also been my experience that many Muslims use either silence, untrue stories or emotional arguments for their position. I know you now say I am biased and prejudiced. Its okay, its all been said before.
I don’t think I ever said you were prejudiced. I think I asked you to consider the possibility that you were stereotyping.
 
I don’t think I ever said you were prejudiced. I think I asked you to consider the possibility that you were stereotyping.
In all honesty tomarin, I don’t believe this “stereotype” issue with user/member Grace.

He/she is one of the most gracious and charitable users. If you have a problem with this user well then you have a problem with all of us.
 
I could be wrong here, but I don’t believe I’ve seen you step in and correct or challange or debate planten for clarifications on his absurd posts. 🤷
I did recently correct him on something. But I was responding to Agabriel’s general comments about Muslims (or maybe he was just talking about internet Muslims).
 
In all honesty tomarin, I don’t believe this “stereotype” issue with user/member Grace.

He/she is one of the most gracious and charitable users. If you have a problem with this user well then you have a problem with all of us.
Let’s talk about ideas and avoid discussion of individual people as much as possible. I agree with you that Grace is gracious but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything she says. Hope that’s okay. 🙂
 
Re: Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

Sura: Chapter 5 - 33

**The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.

Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; **
Tafsir
**To achieve this object, punishments have been prescribed for those who create chaos in the Islamic State, and the Believers have been urged to exert their utmost to establish the Right Way; the sanctity of property has also been emphasized.
The Holy Prophet (and through him the Muslims) has been reassured that he should not mind the enmity, the evil designs and the machinations of the Jews, but continue exerting his utmost to establish the Right Way in accordance with the Guidance of the Quran; for nothing better could be expected from those who had forsaken their own Torah. He should deal with the Christians likewise, for they, too, had forsaken their Gospel.
In view of the degenerate moral condition of the Jews and the Christians, the Believers have been warned not to make them their friends and confidants. **
**The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger **and run about to spread mischief in the land is this; **they should be put to death or crucified or their alternate hands and feet should be cut off, **or they should be banished from the land.
This is the disgrace and ignominy for them in this world and there is in store for them a harsher torment in the Hereafter, except those, who repent before you have power over them for you should know that Allah is Forgiving and Compassionate.
A forgiving and compassionate allah will crucify or cut off hands/feel of the Jews and Christians if they do not accept the “right way” and accept mohamad in islamic law and lands.
 
If he really wanted to understand the meaning of Christianity to Christians he should have paid closer attention to how we understand the story. But he was satisfied just to score cheap points against Christianity – or so he thought.
Trying to learn how Muslims understand the story. So far:

We have a bad translation - no correction offered

It’s ok, Allah told him to do it.
 
Re: Are Muslims okay with Muhammed actions?

Sura: Chapter 5 - 33

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land.

**Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; **

A forgiving and compassionate allah will crucify or cut off hands/feel of the Jews and Christians if they do not accept the “right way” and accept mohamad in islamic law and lands.
Horrifying, isn’t it? :eek:

Vickie
 
Just want to point out you are saying Christianity is false because of OT sins. Christianity arose from Jesus. Mohammed came after Jesus, so if he is a true prophet, he should follow Jesus.
I think you’re confusing me with the atheist I was quoting. He was arguing the God of Christianity could not be all good if he asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. I think he got the story all wrong, even though he was familiar with the plot outline, partly because he couldn’t bother to try to understood how Christians had understood the story throughout time.
 
I think you’re confusing me with the atheist I was quoting. He was arguing the God of Christianity could not be all good if he asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. I think he got the story all wrong, even though he was familiar with the plot outline, partly because he couldn’t bother to try to understood how Christians had understood the story throughout time.
I’m not confused. :cool:
 
I’m not confused. :cool:
Well you were when you said “You disproved Christianity because of OT sins” (paraphrasing). I never disproved Christianity, nor did I try to (nor would I try to). I was telling a story about an atheist who thought he had disproved Christianity. You’re conflating him and me. Clear?
 
Horrifying, isn’t it? :eek:

Vickie
Koran - chapter 9 :29-30
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
Tafsir from above:
In this portion the Muslims have been urged to fight in the Way of Allah with the mushrik Arabs, the Jews and the Christians, who were duly warned of the consequences of their mischievous and inimical behavior.
Fight with those from among the people of the Book, who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day; who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and do not adopt the Right way as their way. (Fight with them) until they pay Jizyah with their own hands and are humbled.
The Jews say, "Ezra (`Uzair) is the son of Allah,” and the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of God.” Such are the baseless things they utter with their tongues, following in the footsteps of the former unbelievers.
**May Allah afflict them with chastisement!
Where from are they being perverted?
They have made their scholars and monks as their Lords beside Allah, and likewise the Messiah, the son of Mary, although they were enjoined not to worship any other than the One Deity, besides** Whom there is none worthy of worship. He is absolutely pure and free from what they associate with Him.
These people desire to extinguish the light of Allah with puffs from their mouths and Allah refuses (His consent to their desire) but wills to perfect His light, even though the disbelievers be much averse to it.
He is Allah Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Right way so that He may make it prevail over all other ways, even though the mushriks be much averse to it.
O Believers, indeed most of the scholars and monks of the people of the Book devour the wealth of others by evil means, and debar them from the Way of Allah. Give them the good news of a painful torment, who hoard up gold and silver and expend not these in the Way of Allah. The Day shall surely come when the same gold and silver shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and therewith their foreheads, their bodies and their backs shall be .branded, (saying), “Here is that treasure you had hoarded up for yourselves: now taste the evil of your hoarded treasure”
Once again, to fight against the perverted Christians for saying that Christ is Lord. There is no lord but allah and mohamad is his messenger.
 
Koran - chapter 9 :29-30
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

Once again, to fight against the perverted Christians for saying that Christ is Lord. There is no lord but allah and mohamad is his messenger.
Hi Pam! Religion of peace indeed! And there are still many people who think we have nothing to worry about.

Where did you find the tafsir you’re using in your posts?

Vickie
 
There’s something a bit ridiculous about that statement. I know it’s not yours, but that’s what I think. If they sincerely believe the “misconception” then isn’t it part of their belief? How did the author of the article become a better expert on Islam than the people who practice the religion?

The only possiblitly then is that they interpret the texts differently than you do. Haven’t you noticed that Protestants and Catholics can interpret Bible passages in radically different ways? Isn’t it possible that’s true of other scriptures as well?

Okay, I’ll have a look.

You won’t catch me saying it’s a book for all people of all times. I don’t believe it is, and as a Christian, why would I believe such a thing? I can think of at least one thing – child marriage – which Muhammad espoused (though I don’t know if it’s in the Qu’ran) which is not for all peoples of all times.

I do think they read them. Not only that, but they memorize them and recite them as part of their liturgy. They also have public recitations of the Qur’an by professional cantors as a form of entertainment and edification. If Arabic is their native language, I think they know the Qu’ran quite well, since their whole civilization is built around it.
The same reason why anyone can be an expert in anything they want to be an expert in - by studying, reading, questioning, getting answers, etc.

And when a religion as deception as part of that religion - who knows if they are sincere in their belief of the misconceptions or they are lying about it? You don’t know. We as Christians should give them the benefit of the doubt. And as for myself I won’t tell you what category I fall into - giving them the benefit of the doubt, or think that they are practicing taqiyya.

Some passages are interpreted differently, most are not. For the most part, the basic teachings of the Bible are pretty consistent. What I see are the way people view the Pope, or the way they think others worship, or say prayers, etc that are the problem.

Many memorize and recite the Quran in Arabic - and more people than not do not know Arabic.

Anyway, I don’t know why you are all excited - the Muslims on this thread have already wrote they are ok with the atrocities that Muhammed committed. Read the prior posts.

Most of the thing with the Muslims in their being bothered by us quoting the Quran, hadiths and history is that we don’t give the same interpretation of ‘holiness’ on all of what Muhammed did. We interpret it as evil, unholy, and just downright nasty.

That is the fundamental difference, along with the idea that Muhammed is not a Prophet due to those differences and the Bible outright saying what makes a Prophet and Muhammed doesn’t fit those requirements. Some say Allah is God, some do not - I do not. Because God would not let a true Prophet totally change the message as Muhammed did. I do think that Satan has indeed influenced Islam - Satan promised Jesus the world and all in it and didn’t take the devil up on it while Muhammed did take him up on it. And so Muhammed got whatever his heart desired - loot, slaves, children, power, others to worship him, etc.
 
Hi Pam! Religion of peace indeed! And there are still many people who think we have nothing to worry about.

Where did you find the tafsir you’re using in your posts?

Vickie
Vickie… searchtruth.com has everthing, from the koran and then a high level tafsir zooming down to low level tafsir. It’s an excellent source, AUTHENTIC islamic site.

The only way to understand the koran is to understand the tafsir, otherwise you are lost just by reading it.

Their search criteria is awesome!!!

Everything I post regarding hadiths and koran is from the above.

Best regards,
Pam
 
Vickie… searchtruth.com has everthing, from the koran and then a high level tafsir zooming down to low level tafsir. It’s an excellent source, AUTHENTIC islamic site.

The only way to understand the koran is to understand the tafsir, otherwise you are lost just by reading it.

Their search criteria is awesome!!!

Everything I post regarding hadiths and koran is from the above.

Best regards, 🙂
Pam
Thanks, Pam, that will help a lot!

Vickie 🙂
 
The same reason why anyone can be an expert in anything they want to be an expert in - by studying, reading, questioning, getting answers, etc.
Still, complex things like theology usually require years of disciplined study. It’s not like learning a cake recipe off the back of a box.
And when a religion as deception as part of that religion - who knows if they are sincere in their belief of the misconceptions or they are lying about it? You don’t know. We as Christians should give them the benefit of the doubt. And as for myself I won’t tell you what category I fall into - giving them the benefit of the doubt, or think that they are practicing taqiyya.
Indeed, who knows?
Some passages are interpreted differently, most are not. For the most part, the basic teachings of the Bible are pretty consistent. What I see are the way people view the Pope, or the way they think others worship, or say prayers, etc that are the problem.
I don’t know about that. Jehovahs Witnesses claim to follow the Bible, yet they aren’t even trinitarian Christians (if they are Christians at all). How could this be if the teachings of the Bible are pretty consistent?
Many memorize and recite the Quran in Arabic - and more people than not do not know Arabic.
It’s true there are more non-Arab Muslims than Arab Muslims. But in the Muslim “heartland” countries in the Middle East most Muslims speak Arabic as their native language and they are very familiar with the Qur’an.
Anyway, I don’t know why you are all excited - the Muslims on this thread have already wrote they are ok with the atrocities that Muhammed committed. Read the prior posts.
Sure, they’re okay with them except that they don’t believe they were atrocities. Wouldn’t a person striving for objectivity point that out?
Most of the thing with the Muslims in their being bothered by us quoting the Quran, hadiths and history is that we don’t give the same interpretation of ‘holiness’ on all of what Muhammed did. We interpret it as evil, unholy, and just downright nasty.
They may feel you are not quoting the Qu’ran in good faith, but doing so selectively and taking things out of context in order to present as scary a picture as possible of the religion in order to demonize it.
 
Still, complex things like theology usually require years of disciplined study. It’s not like learning a cake recipe off the back of a box.

Indeed, who knows?

I don’t know about that. Jehovahs Witnesses claim to follow the Bible, yet they aren’t even trinitarian Christians (if they are Christians at all). How could this be if the teachings of the Bible are pretty consistent?

It’s true there are more non-Arab Muslims than Arab Muslims. But in the Muslim “heartland” countries in the Middle East most Muslims speak Arabic as their native language and they are very familiar with the Qur’an.

Sure, they’re okay with them except that they don’t believe they were atrocities. Wouldn’t a person striving for objectivity point that out?

They may feel you are not quoting the Qu’ran in good faith, but doing so selectively and taking things out of context in order to present as scary a picture as possible of the religion in order to demonize it.
Yes, and I have been doing it for about a decade now. The Quran, hadiths, sunnah, history, etc.

And to be quite honest - who died and made you the authority on it? Or saying who and who is not an authority?

Personally, I don’t care what you think they think.
 
Yes, and I have been doing it for about a decade now. The Quran, hadiths, sunnah, history, etc.

And to be quite honest - who died and made you the authority on it? Or saying who and who is not an authority?

Personally, I don’t care what you think they think.
I’m not an expert on Islam by any means, but I find the way that many here approach the topic without even trying to understand it on its own terms fairly despicable. But you don’t care about what I think, so I’ll be off.
 
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