**elwill:
hi GraceDK, im from arab muslims , from egypt if you interest **
Hi Elwill, and thanks for your kind words. Its not easy to speak about our differences in how we understand God’s Identity. But I am sure we can agree that the God does not want us to loose the human perspective. He has created us all, and we are first and foremost human beings, sharing the experience of love, hope, suffering and the need of each others help.
Indeed, if religion lacks love, then it also lacks truth. Where there is no love, there is no truth.
I strongly recommend visiting Islamic Awareness’ article which proves that the entire story of the so-called “satanic verses” is a lie
You dont have to tell me about the “satanic verses”. I am aware already that according to Islam it was a test of the prophet Muhammad and that its not recorded in the Koran.
**Before I explain why Allah Almighty ordered the Muslims to fight the Pagans and the People of the Book until they all either submit to Islam or pay the “Jizyah”, I’d like to point out that many people were exempt from the “Jizyah” or “taxes”: **
Wait a minute here Elwill. In the Koran it does not say: “either submit to islam or pay the Jizrah” It says “Until they pay jisrah AND submit (to Islam)”. Also.
Don’t you think its unfair if I ask you to pay taxes to the Catholic Church? Religion is a matter of the conscience. I would never pay tax to a religious establishment other than my own. And if my Church asked un-believers to pay tax to the Church I would think it was unworthy behaviour.
As a Christian I don’t believe in the idea of a clean religious society that Islam teaches. This has been tried many times in the history of man: many ideologies and religious groups tried to make the “perfect society”, always with the result that people who believed or something different were killed or maimed, This is not freedom.
Jesus says: “Treat others like you would like to be treated”. That means, I want to have freedom to believe and speak and think and study and live… and I respect the freedom of others for the same.
The Jizya tax guarantees the Christians and Jews complete protection under the Islamic state. If an enemy country attacks the Islamic country, the Islamic country has a duty to defend the Christians and Jews and the Christians and Jews are not even obliged to fight!
I am sorry, but I see that as only little comfort since the persecution of Christians is worst in Islamic countries. Even in your own country there is right now a man who has, through his conscience, become a Christian and he wants to be recognized as a Christian on his ID, but so many try to kill him in the name of your god. His name is El-Gohary and he has a daughter who cannot get married to a Christian man unless she is allowed to change status in her identity card. Is this freedom to you, Elwill?
In my country we have many Muslims, they can practice their faith, they can even preach on the street, they can convert according to their heart, and they can visit the mosques. But in islamic countries whereever sharia is, the Christians and Jews are suffering and on the run. You know it. please do not get offended at me for saying the truth. Be offended at those who do evil to others and who do not respect human freedom of conscience.
**The non-Muslims have to pay a varrying amount under the name of “Jizyah” depending on their situation, which is taxes that don’t go to help poor and needy Muslims, but instead, it goes to the government to (1) Provide protection for them since they are a minority; (2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by building Temples or Churches for them. **
And tell me, what happens to the convert from Islam to Christianity according to Sharia? You know that even the Church in Egypt is afraid to help converts, because when they baptise them the Muslims go crazy and threaten to kill the priest and burn the Church. if you dont believe me ask your own Christian neighbours.
nonmuslims might use Surah 9:29 to show that Muslims must fight them until they pay the Jizya, so this shows discrimination. However, this also applies to the Muslims who do not pay their Zakat! Abu Bakr fought against the Muslims who didn’t pay Zakat. So how does this discriminate against the Christians and Jews?
The problem Elwill is that the taxes you talk about are part of religious system, a so-called theocracy, where people who do not believe in your god are however forced to live according to Islam’s rules. If this happend to you, you would also realise it is wrong. So what we talk about is sharia-taxes in an islamic system. Not a neutral democrazy that treats everyone equally. Also I want to point out, because you speak of millitary duty: In Israel the Palestinian people are second ranking and they don’t do millitary service. This shows the disunity of the country and the great propblems of distrust between the two people. So the system you advocate where a Christian would not defend his own country, is far from being a role model for a good and harmonious society. Moreso, a Christian will not fight for a sharia system ever, because his own rights are under attack in the sharia system. Therefore a Islamic state cannot trust Christians to fight… because to do so would be illogical-
However, let us not speak politics but talk mainly about the spiritual truths…
well ,i’m sunni muslim and i believe in sahih of ahadeeth , don’t bring me hadeeth which known to be forged to muslims because i believe that there is many forged ahdeeth either
Okay. when you say Sahih I believe you mean Bukhari, right?.. Its good to know. I have already read many of his Hadith. You will maybe tell me which ones you don’t accept and the criteria of your acceptance?
Please… also tell me if my English is too difficult. I can make it more simple. I compliment your English, by the way.
