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jakasaki
Guest
And let’s add the 7th century koran found in Yemen which NO ONE can review.
What is there to hide?
What is there to hide?
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jakasaki
Guest
A_Lion_Of_Islam;:
Islam claims that the Angel Gabriel spoke to mohamad for the 20+ years of his “so called prophethood”.
When did God speak to mohamad directly?
Cite your sources from the koran.
And don’t give me the hadith where mohamad flew on this donkey type animal with a womans face on it’s head and feathers for wings deal.
Not my personal opinion.
Islam claims that the Angel Gabriel spoke to mohamad for the 20+ years of his “so called prophethood”.
When did God speak to mohamad directly?
Cite your sources from the koran.
And don’t give me the hadith where mohamad flew on this donkey type animal with a womans face on it’s head and feathers for wings deal.
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jakasaki
Guest
What is it with muslims and this “memorize” deal???
If the koran is memorized today as it was from the beggining when the so called angel nailed mohamad in the cave, then why the heck it isn’t recited as “mohamad claimed to have received it”??? ??? ??? **
From the beggining:** Al-Alaq
Your fellow muslim reciters memorizing Uthmans koran which starts from Al-Fatiha.
Al fatiha was NOT THE FIRST “revealed” words from the so called angel in the cave
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jakasaki
Guest
You know what, enough of this.
We go through this every time a new muslim member comes on board.
Take my advice. Go through the previous posts/threads on topics regarding islam.
We have covered them all, from A-Z.
It is exhausting re-posting, re-hashing the same thing over and over.
You are here 3 days and you expect the members to jump for you. Read the previous posts and keep on reading until you reach at least 6 months to a year.
If you find an interesting “old” thread, well then bring it forward for discussion.
False statements are only false in the eyes and mind of the ones who cannot question, study, research and double question. Denial & ignorance.
That is not what Christianity is about and since you are on a Catholic board, remember, they are your host and you are nothing but a guest, and since I too am not Catholic, I too am a guest on here.
We question, we research, we study all avenues and we do not fear understanding our research.
God gave us free will and God gave us a mind to use. God did not stifle us!
You can recite the koran, you can recite the Bible, you can recite the Iliad and Moby Dick and the Declaration of Independence. I’m not impressed.
My mother is illiterate being an orphan and she can recite Bible passages, she can tell stories and she can produce a cook book without being able to read and or write.
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Rence
Guest
I’m sorry, but I can’t believe you guys are bickering back and forth like this.
The Muslims believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on the Koran, and on the teachings of Mohammed. They believe they’re right and they believe that Jews and Christians are wrong. They don’t care about what’s in the Jewish and Christian Bible. They go by their own. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
The Catholics believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on the Bible as well as oral traditions. They believe they’re right and they believe that Jews have missed the boat, and Muslims are also wrong. They don’t go by the Muslim Bible, they go by the Old and New Testament. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
The Jews believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on their Bible and oral traditions. They beliee they’re right and they believe Catholics and Muslims are wrong. They don’t care what’s in the Christian Bible or the Muslim Koran. They go by their own. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
Pointing to your own Bible/Koran is useless to prove what you’re trying to say, because the other party goes by something else. So it’s useless fighting about it.
What’s so hard about mutual respect for another person’s religion? As wrong as you think someone is, that’s how they think YOU are. As much as you don’t like someone criticising your religion, that’s how much you should avoid criticising someone else’s religion. You guys need to learn to get along, and learn about each other and develop some mutual respect and understanding.
The Muslims believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on the Koran, and on the teachings of Mohammed. They believe they’re right and they believe that Jews and Christians are wrong. They don’t care about what’s in the Jewish and Christian Bible. They go by their own. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
The Catholics believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on the Bible as well as oral traditions. They believe they’re right and they believe that Jews have missed the boat, and Muslims are also wrong. They don’t go by the Muslim Bible, they go by the Old and New Testament. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
The Jews believe heartily in their religion. Their rules and laws and theology are based on their Bible and oral traditions. They beliee they’re right and they believe Catholics and Muslims are wrong. They don’t care what’s in the Christian Bible or the Muslim Koran. They go by their own. They don’t care, nor do they recognize other Bibles.
Pointing to your own Bible/Koran is useless to prove what you’re trying to say, because the other party goes by something else. So it’s useless fighting about it.
What’s so hard about mutual respect for another person’s religion? As wrong as you think someone is, that’s how they think YOU are. As much as you don’t like someone criticising your religion, that’s how much you should avoid criticising someone else’s religion. You guys need to learn to get along, and learn about each other and develop some mutual respect and understanding.
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mike52ad
Guest
Taken as a whole, there is SOME truth in Islam, just as there is some truth other denominations of Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church is the repository for all truth known about God. Jesus was God’s own Son who came to earth to show how much he loved us. I am grateful that the Koran acknowledges Jesus, albiet not in his true form of God made man, but what it does not say about Him and all of the passages that recommend slavery for “people of the Book” show that there are great gaps in philosophy here. As Roman Catholic Christians we have to fall back on the words of Christ that promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. The core question here is if Muslims worship the same God as we do, I think that there holy book says yes and no almost in the same breath. I welcome dialogue with other religions, but must hold fast to the Truth as Jesus taught it. Peace to everyone who reads this.
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Jay53
Guest
I haven’t seen any proof in your posts.
I’ve also asked numerous times why one should believe Muhammad is a prophet of God when he contradicts previous scriptures. The best response I’ve received so far is that he was trustworthy in business. Somehow I don’t think that qualifies someone for prophethood. That question and discussion is (I think) in one of the Question about Islam threads (Round 4, maybe ???). You can dig that thread out if you would like to contribute your thoughts.
As to your question above regarding Muhammad “borrowing scriptures”, there was also a whole thread on this topic.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=361136
If you would like to read it and then comment, feel free. As jakasaki said, many of these topics have already been discussed. You just need to search the threads and then you can add whatever comments you would like to the appropriate thread to continue the discussion.
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jakasaki
Guest
JC will frown with my post to this matter right now, but what the heck :yawn:
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Reuben_J
Guest
Very often we come across an English phrase, “There is no god but Allah”. This must be wrong translation then. It should read, “there is no god but God”. So why do we often use the former, which more likely to mean that ‘Allah’ is a name, a proper noun.
I have nothing against all this, whether Allah is a name or not, but the common usage looks like Allah is a name. If it is not, then Muslims should not persist with the misleading usage.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Lion, how do you account for the fact that Mohammad / Quran taught differently than Christianity and the Bible?
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Reuben_J
Guest
Not good enough for the standard that Quran has set for itself. Memorization does not guarantee 100% accuracy, we all know that. What more to say for a book as big as the Quran.
There were verses that was remembered by one friend but forgotten by the others. Many of the sabats died during the war and you lost valuable Quranic source.
What about the verse written on a parchment that was eaten by a goat?
Your argument is simply not good enough because you all claim that the Quran is verbatim words of Allah. You miss out one punctuation mark or word, there goes you are. Your Quran is imperfect.
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Mosacked
Guest
What you just said above is not just illogical, its ridiculous.
Just because there is ONE God doesn’t mean you are worshipping the same as God as mine. I believe there is one president too, but I claim he is John McCain. Does it mean Obama is McCain in disguise???
Sheeesh…Seriously, are you a catholic? cos you don’t quite have it in you.
God is known as Yahweh (a NAME) by the Jews and Christians alike. If some other entity (eg. the quarish idol - allah) wants to be God, then it has to be worshipped differently (and it is). But they claiming to worship in monotheism does not equal the same entity of worship. Remember, satan WANTS TO BE GOD.
muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com
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Mosacked
Guest
Firstly Lion,
no book that tells its followers to slaughter non-believers and has a messenger who killed, robbed, raped, lied, jumped in fright at the eclipse and slept with biologically underaged girls and own son’s ex-wife is EVER Holy.
Secondly, whether or not allah is a god is anybody’s guess. The deity in the Torah that saved the descendants of Isaac in the miraculous exodus and had declared its name as Yahweh obviously supported Isaac and not Ishmael. Secondly, that deity objected remarriages, which allah encourages. Thirdly, that deity detested moon worshippers as shown even at the fight at Mt Carmel, yet allah’s followers today have crescent moons atop their places of worship.
What is telling is this. Whoever this allah is, it is an enemy of the deity illustrated in the book of Torah.
muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com
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Kadaveri
Guest
I agree. This is precisely why I’ve advised Muslims many times to not insist on using ‘Allah’ when speaking English.
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Mosacked
Guest
You’re right this time. If they use english, the error is extremely clear and the fraud is exposed. But if they use arabic or something else, the hearer will less likely detect the problem and its easier to excuse it (if the hearer notices) using linguistic syntactical ‘practices’.
muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
S. 2:162 is precisely what Christians believe: there is only one God. Christians are monotheists through and through. If you deny this, then you are being forced to lie by your religion.
As for the idea that Trinity is blasphemy because “its attributing that God had a son,” that’s exactly why the Quran is not from God - because it forces Muslims to believe a lie. That is simply not what the Trinity is. The Son is coeternal and coexistent with the Father, just as John 1:1 says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” God did not create a son like I would create a son with my future wife (God willing), but the Father begot the Son within the Trinity, just as the Holy Spirit was begotten of the Father within the Trinity.
The birth of Christ by the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit was the Incarnation, which was simply the Divine Word entering into our flesh to restore the Image of God which had been tarnished after the Fall of Man. However, the Son did not lose His deity, but took on a full humanity. This is known as the hypostatic union: Christ was fully man and fully God. This is something the Quran and most Muslim apologists do not understand - they either assume Christians are Arians (God created another god) or they assume Christ was either fully God (which is Gnosticism) or fully man (along the line of prophethood).
By the time Mohammad came along, entire ecumenical councils had debated and confirmed this. There was a 600-year tradition of patristics (Church Fathers) who confirmed this and maintained the same belief for hundreds of years. It is furthermore maintained in scripture.
Now if you are going to make the claim that Mohammad is right because he is a prophet or because he has a revelation that says so, let us be consistent. Mohammad claims to be in line with the prophets of old, and to be found in the Gospels and Torah. If a man comes 600 years after the last prophesy, and his theology is incompatible with what came before, contradicts what came before, and in fact gets many things wrong with what the last revelation teaches…is that the fault of the last revelation, or is that the fault of the “prophet”?
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Qoeleth
Guest
In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful…
Some of the posters here do not seem to know the Koran, or even the Bible in any detail. Please study them before making and conclusion.
The only significant difference between Christianity and Islam is a different understanding of the status of Jesus. The Koran describes him as the Messiah, born of the Virgin Mary. Muslims believe he will come again at the end of time. The Gospel’s ascribe the title of ‘Son of God’ to Jesus, but clearly do not mean it in the sense of physical conception, but rather implying a favoured relationship. This misunderstanding is the heart of the the division. But what does it matter? What is important is the moral teachings of Jesus, not whether he was simply the Messiah, or the Son of God.
Pretty much all the moral teachings of Christianity and Islam are identical- except Muslims are a bit liberal when it comes to divorce and marriage. Everything else is the same.
I think Western so-called Christian governments should learn from the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. about the importance of enforcing public morality.
Best wishes to all
Some of the posters here do not seem to know the Koran, or even the Bible in any detail. Please study them before making and conclusion.
The only significant difference between Christianity and Islam is a different understanding of the status of Jesus. The Koran describes him as the Messiah, born of the Virgin Mary. Muslims believe he will come again at the end of time. The Gospel’s ascribe the title of ‘Son of God’ to Jesus, but clearly do not mean it in the sense of physical conception, but rather implying a favoured relationship. This misunderstanding is the heart of the the division. But what does it matter? What is important is the moral teachings of Jesus, not whether he was simply the Messiah, or the Son of God.
Pretty much all the moral teachings of Christianity and Islam are identical- except Muslims are a bit liberal when it comes to divorce and marriage. Everything else is the same.
I think Western so-called Christian governments should learn from the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. about the importance of enforcing public morality.
Best wishes to all
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wwolverine
Guest
mmmmmmmm you mention you are a catholic, is this sort of new catholicism? Are you defecting from the papal authority and forming your own? Because your writings amazed me. What is Jesus to You?
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wwolverine
Guest
Hi Pam
I happened to meet this guy a new comer from pakistan, a perfect muslim according to him, who gets angry whenever i quote something frm the quran in wrong context. I gave him the local arabic news paper and asked him what it said, He said he cannot read arabic, and i was zapped, I asked him What! you cant read arabic and how can yu read your quran, and ( maybe a slip of tongue) he said, I can read but cannot understand hence use the translations in urdu.
So you can imagine when muslims say they recite the quran without understanding what they recite how can they ever recite correctly?
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NoWings
Guest
LOL.
I find it funny that Mosacked’s argument is that Allah is a proper name and not a generic word for God when 'El is also the name of the head of the Ugaritic pantheon in Canaan.
I find it funny that Mosacked’s argument is that Allah is a proper name and not a generic word for God when 'El is also the name of the head of the Ugaritic pantheon in Canaan.
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