Are our bodies like prison cells?

[Robert_Sock]

“Man is not a soul bound in a transient body. If that were the case, resurrection would have little significance other than representing the soul’s return to its bodily prison…The Rambam says there will be no eating, drinking or sleeping in the World to Come (Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Laws of Repentance 8:2). This statement was the focal point of a dispute between Maimonides and Nachmonides, and has been deeply misunderstood. In the World to Come, the body will not be resurrected and then die. Maimonides says that after resurrection, the body will cease to be a body as we know it (ibid.). This cessation implies that the body will instead become so holy that it will become spiritual, transcending the physical limitations imposed upon it in this earthly world. Nevertheless, it will retain its sense of self-existence, its sense of being.”
-aish.com/sp/ph/48929597.html

 

[Darryl1958]

For Jews, resurrection is all theoretical.
The body of Christ is a historical testament to what the body means to Christians.
Catholic Eucharistic confirms that the body and blood are not to be understood in any esoteric or symbolic way as well.

 

[GEddie]

For Jews, resurrection is all theoretical.
The body of Christ is a historical testament to what the body means to Christians.
Catholic Eucharistic confirms that the body and blood are not to be understood in any esoteric or symbolic way as well.

Resurrection is not theoretical in Judaism.

They do not separate “the body” from the conscious being, as we do, (there being no separate word for “body” in Hebrew) , so afterlife for Jews is not conceivable apart from a bodily resurrection.

The teaching, in fact, is that a small indestructible bone at the back of the neck will house the soul during bodily corruption, and will become the core of bodily resurrection.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Darryl1958]

Resurrection is not theoretical in Judaism.

They do not separate “the body” from the conscious being, as we do, (there being no separate word for “body” in Hebrew) , so afterlife for Jews is not conceivable apart from a bodily resurrection.

The teaching, in fact, is that a small indestructible bone at the back of the neck will house the soul during bodily corruption, and will become the core of bodily resurrection.

ICXC NIKA

I don’t separate the body from the conscious being.

 

[tonyrey]

“Man is not a soul bound in a transient body. If that were the case, resurrection would have little significance other than representing the soul’s return to its bodily prison…The Rambam says there will be no eating, drinking or sleeping in the World to Come (Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Laws of Repentance 8:2). This statement was the focal point of a dispute between Maimonides and Nachmonides, and has been deeply misunderstood. In the World to Come, the body will not be resurrected and then die. Maimonides says that after resurrection, the body will cease to be a body as we know it (ibid.). This cessation implies that the body will instead become so holy that it will become spiritual, transcending the physical limitations imposed upon it in this earthly world. Nevertheless, it will retain its sense of self-existence, its sense of being.”
-aish.com/sp/ph/48929597.html

God wouldn’t have created our body if it were to become a prison cell. It is the mind that becomes enslaved by evil desires and ambitions. If we regard our body as a prison we despise God’s handiwork.

 

[Robert_Sock]

God wouldn’t have created our body if it were to become a prison cell.

How do you know this? If God allowed the downfall of man, why would not God allow the body to act a prison as a part of original sin?

It is the mind that becomes enslaved by evil desires and ambitions.

The mind is undoubtedly enslaved by sinful passions of the flesh, but what does that have to do with the question of whether or not our bodies act as prisons?

If we regard our body as a prison we despise God’s handiwork.

How so? Not true for me. I regard God’s true masterpiece to be with our soul.

We live in a world of good and evil, and that goes for our bodies as well. The evil of the human body is akin to it being a prison that keeps us here in the lowest of the worlds that God created.

 

[tonyrey]

How do you know this? If God allowed the downfall of man, why would not God allow the body to act a prison as a part of original sin?

The mind is undoubtedly enslaved by sinful passions of the flesh, but what does that have to do with the question of whether or not our bodies act as prisons?

How so? Not true for me. I regard God’s true masterpiece to be with our soul.

We live in a world of good and evil, and that goes for our bodies as well. The evil of the human body is akin to it being a prison that keeps us here in the lowest of the worlds that God created.

The downfall of man wasn’t caused by the body. In fact Jesus specifically told us that sin doesn’t come from the body but from within.

The body wasn’t designed to be a prison but the temple of the Holy Spirit. It only becomes a prison if we regard it as a prison but that is a form of escapism.** It is God’s Will that we are on earth to serve Him and others until He decides we have fulfilled our purpose.

**Milton was afflicted with blindness became blind but he didn’t consider himself useless or a burden on society. He wrote a memorable sonnet On His Blindness:

"When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one talent which is death to hide
Lodg’d with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide,
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies: “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts: who best**
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best**.
His stateIs kingly; thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er land and ocean without rest:**
They also serve who only stand and wait.**”

 

[tonyrey]

We live in a world of good and evil, and that goes for our bodies as well. The evil of the human body is akin to it being a prison that keeps us here in the lowest of the worlds that God created.

Even though illness and disease are natural evils the body itself is not evil in any sense of the word. Our body is good because it is created by God. If it were evil we should pray for a speedy death so that we can leave this world as soon as possible regardless of the effect it will have on others. It would be a blessing if some one killed us - painlessly of course!

 

[Robert_Sock]

The downfall of man wasn’t caused by the body. In fact Jesus specifically told us that sin doesn’t come from the body but from within.

No, the downfall of man was not caused by the body, but my contention is that something happened during the downfall that caused our bodies to be tainted with evil. Clearly though, the bible teaches that the flesh is weak and thus is a cause of sin.

The body wasn’t designed to be a prison but the temple of the Holy Spirit. It only becomes a prison if we regard it as a prison but that is a form of escapism. It is God’s Will that we are on earth to serve Him and others until He decides we have fulfilled our purpose.

Yes, the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. And yes again, we are here to serve God.

Milton was afflicted with blindness became blind but he didn’t consider himself useless or a burden on society. He wrote a memorable sonnet On His Blindness:

"When I consider how my light is spent
Ere half my days in this dark world and wide,
And that one talent which is death to hide
Lodg’d with me useless, though my soul more bent
To serve therewith my Maker, and present
My true account, lest he returning chide,
“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”
I fondly ask. But Patience, to prevent
That murmur, soon replies: “God doth not need
Either man’s work or his own gifts: who best**
Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best**.
His stateIs kingly; thousands at his bidding speed
And post o’er land and ocean without rest:**
They also serve who only stand and wait.**”

Life does indeed have a purpose, even if we are disabled, however, I fail to see where this is germane to the topic of whether or not our bodies act as prisions.

 

[dshix]

No, the downfall of man was not caused by the body, but my contention is that something happened during the downfall that caused our bodies to be tainted with evil. Clearly though, the bible teaches that the flesh is weak and thus is a cause of sin.

Life does indeed have a purpose, even if we are disabled, however, I fail to see where this is germane to the topic of whether or not our bodies act as prisions.

No, the body is not the cause of sin, the will is.

The idea that the body is somehow poisonous and the cause of our possible damnation is not Catholic at all. Look at the demons; they have no bodies, yet they sinned.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Even though illness and disease are natural evils the body itself is not evil in any sense of the word.

This is opinion. And I certainly have my own opinion here; unless you have facts to back your claim up, we will need to agree to disagree.

Our body is good because it is created by God.

God created this world and it contains evil.

Isaiah 45:7
“I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)

If it were evil we should pray for a speedy death so that we can leave this world as soon as possible regardless of the effect it will have on others. It would be a blessing if some one killed us - painlessly of course!

Yes, I’m affirmative on all those things!

 

[tonyrey]

Even though illness and disease are natural evils the body itself is not evil in any sense of the word.

The fact that Jesus told us that we have a loving Father who cares for all His children.

Our body is good because it is created by God.

God created this world and it contains evil.
Isaiah 45:7 - “I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” (Douay-Rheims)

Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of love. It is a mistake to interpret
every statement in the Old Testament literally. Otherwise we have to believe God deliberately inflicts suffering on innocent people - including children - for no reason whatsoever.

If it were evil we should pray for a speedy death so that we can leave this world as soon as possible regardless of the effect it will have on others. It would be a blessing if some one killed us - painlessly of course!

Yes, I’m affirmative on all those things!!

Then you must approve of eugenics, abortion and euthanasia.

 

[GEddie]

I don’t separate the body from the conscious being.

Ok, my oops, I meant “we” as in present-day Platono-Christendom or the hedo-Gnostic general society. Not you or anybody else specifically.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Robert_Sock]

The fact that Jesus told us that we have a loving Father who cares for all His children.

It’s all within God’s plan for our salvation that we be imprisoned here in the lower world temporarily.

Darkness is the absence of light and evil is the absence of love. It is a mistake to interpret every statement in the Old Testament literally. Otherwise we have to believe God deliberately inflicts suffering on innocent people - including children - for no reason whatsoever.

Evil is not the absence of love. Indeed we live in a world of good and evil where the evil is being used by God to bring about our eternal, glorious salvation.

Then you must approve of eugenics, abortion and euthanasia.

No, I believe it’s up to God to will when we are taken from this miserable and corrupt world.

 

[livingwordunity]

While in the prison-house of this body, I acknowledge my need of two things -food and light.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter11

The only translation I could find of the Imitation of Christ that has that phrase in it is one called the “Easy Read Edition”. So, I conclude that the version you are using is a very poor translation and is therefore not a true representation of Thomas à Kempis Imitation of Christ. Since the belief that the body is evil or a “prison-house” is the heresy of Gnosticism perhaps the translators of the version you have are Gnostics.

 

[tonyrey]

It’s all within God’s plan for our salvation that we be imprisoned here in the lower world temporarily.

Did Jesus ever suggest this world is a prison?

Evil is not the absence of love.

So it is not evil to lack love for others? How does that tally with the Commandments?

Indeed we live in a world of good and evil where the evil is being used by God to bring about our eternal, glorious salvation.

God permits evil because without free will we would be incapable of love but He does not intend anyone to be evil.

No, I believe it’s up to God to will when we are taken from this miserable and corrupt world.

Jesus didn’t regard this world as miserable and corrupt. He had a positive attitude pointing to the beauty of the lilies as evidence of the Father’s power and love. He cured the sick and the blind so that they could enjoy life and give thanks to God for all their blessings. He condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for making people miserable and He participated in the celebration of events like the wedding feast. He certainly didn’t tell us to pray for a speedy death so that we can leave this world as soon as possible regardless of the effect it will have on others. Our life on earth is a precious gift which we can use to glorify God even if - like Milton - we can only stand and wait.

 

[Aloysium]

No.
I am my body in the world: its matter, perceptions and actions. Sometimes I understand my body as being contained in my spirit.
At any rate, what I don’t see is my body containing me; it can’t be my prison.
It has been a source of joy and considerable suffering in my life; the burden is not my body, but the pain.
Nothing that God creates is evil.
The true prison is sin and its wages, death: the misery that is associated with that prison.
We are here because our relationship with God has been broken.
Through Christ’s death and resurrection we have the possibility of a new and eternal life in Him.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The only translation I could find of the Imitation of Christ that has that phrase in it is one called the “Easy Read Edition”. So, I conclude that the version you are using is a very poor translation and is therefore not a true representation of Thomas à Kempis Imitation of Christ. Since the belief that the body is evil or a “prison-house” is the heresy of Gnosticism perhaps the translators of the version you have are Gnostics.

I’m reading the version edited by Leo Sherley-Price (a popular translation).
amazon.com/Imitation-Christ-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140440275/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1383161863&sr=1-1&keywords=imitation+of+christ+by+thomas+kempis+price

 

[Darryl1958]

Ok, my oops, I meant “we” as in present-day Platono-Christendom or the hedo-Gnostic general society. Not you or anybody else specifically.

ICXC NIKA

That “we” would likely include a lot of Jews too, including Maimonides.
Western culture, and now world culture, for the past twenty five hundred years has often been a continuing power play between Plato and Aristotle, now with science(Aristotle) pulling one way, and then the Platonists pummeling them back emphaising that only the other world has the reality of Being.
Christianity literally materialized a very different understanding of what it means to be a faithful human being.
That position can simply not be reached starting from the Aristotlean-Platonic dualistc conflict.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Did Jesus ever suggest this world is a prison?

It goes without saying that the body is what is responsible for keeping us prisoners in this lower world. We are living this life in exile.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

So it is not evil to lack love for others? How does that tally with the Commandments?

Yes, to lack love for one another is an evil, but I was referring to God’s love for us even though we are living in a world of good and evil.

God permits evil because without free will we would be incapable of love but He does not intend anyone to be evil.

Agree, but this does not invalidate my contention that God is using evil to promote our salvation.

Jesus didn’t regard this world as miserable and corrupt. He had a positive attitude pointing to the beauty of the lilies as evidence of the Father’s power and love. He cured the sick and the blind so that they could enjoy life and give thanks to God for all their blessings. He condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for making people miserable and He participated in the celebration of events like the wedding feast. He certainly didn’t tell us to pray for a speedy death so that we can leave this world as soon as possible regardless of the effect it will have on others. Our life on earth is a precious gift which we can use to glorify God even if - like Milton - we can only stand and wait.

Jesus may not have stated that this world is miserable and corrupt, but many of the saints have inferred this.

"The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, ‘Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!’ (Ps. 119:5)… He ceases not to ask with the Apostle’… Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Rom. 7:24)”
-The Golden Key to Heaven, by Saint Anthony Mary Claret