Are our bodies like prison cells?

[Robert_Sock]

Many of the saints were extremists and they had to be to bring people to their senses. But none of them denied the value of life in this world because they knew it is a precious opportunity to demonstrate our love for God and for others. There are no short-cuts to spiritual development.

To view this life as a precious means of showing our love for God and our neighbor is in no way an argument against these bodies acting as prison cell. We live in Divine prison cells, and are being asked by God to return to Him.

 

[CrossofChrist]

From Gaudium et Spes (bold mine):

14. Though made of body and soul, man is one. Through his bodily composition he gathers to himself the elements of the material world; thus they reach their crown through him, and through him raise their voice in free praise of the Creator.(6) For this reason man is not allowed to despise his bodily life, rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and honorable since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.

Just sayin’.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

**tonyrey

A person who regards this life as a prison is in a mental prison! It amounts to waiting for death instead of finding opportunities to help others.**

I agree. The myth of the cave is Platonic. Plato’s cave is no more than a prison. Get out and into the light!

 

[Robert_Sock]

A person who regards this life as a prison is in a mental prison! It amounts to waiting for death instead of finding opportunities to help others.

I believe I live in a prison and I usually feel peace, calm and joy (I also suffer from panic attacks which are absolutely horrible). I contribute as much as I can to the poor, and they’re constantly in my thoughts and prayers. I deeply believe my life has purpose!

 

[davidv]

I believe I live in a prison and I usually feel peace, calm and joy (I also suffer from panic attacks which are absolutely horrible). I contribute as much as I can to the poor, and they’re constantly in my thoughts and prayers. I deeply believe my life has purpose!

What you “feel” is not a very good arbiter of truth. It is very clear from Church teaching that despising the body is not in accord with truth.

 

[Robert_Sock]

What you “feel” is not a very good arbiter of truth. It is very clear from Church teaching that despising the body is not in accord with truth.

Can you quote some New Testament passages to support your assertion?

 

[CrossofChrist]

(bold mine)

It is very clear from Church teaching that despising the body is not in accord with truth.

Can you quote some New Testament passages to support your assertion?

“Man is not allowed to despise his bodily life, rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and honorable”. - GS 14

Ecumenical Councils triumph over personal interpretation of Scripture.

 

[davidv]

Can you quote some New Testament passages to support your assertion?

Official Church documents were cited showing that it is not my assertion. Why are these not sufficient?

 

[Robert_Sock]

(bold mine)
“Man is not allowed to despise his bodily life, rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and honorable”. - GS 14

Ecumenical Councils triumph over personal interpretation of Scripture.

Why do so many saints suggest otherwise. I do believe that the body is in part good and admirable, but I also see it as partly evil and despicable. Like this world, the body is both good and evil. I wonder what our Catholic brothers and sisters who suffer through incurable, agonizing cancer or horrible panic attacks would say about this?

 

[GEddie]

Why do so many saints suggest otherwise. I do believe that the body is in part good and admirable, but I also see it as partly evil and despicable. Like this world, the body is both good and evil. I wonder what our Catholic brothers and sisters who suffer through incurable, agonizing cancer or horrible panic attacks would say about this?

The body is good because it enables us to be alive; it is not evil, as our LORD would not have taken on anything that was even in part evil.

The words of Saints are not in themselves infallible, but Papal Encyclicals are.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Robert_Sock]

The body is good because it enables us to be alive; it is not evil, as our LORD would not have taken on anything that was even in part evil.

The words of Saints are not in themselves infallible, but Papal Encyclicals are.

ICXC NIKA

Christ would have taken on the form of a partially evil body to save us. It was through the human body that Christ was tempted and overcame sin. And who’s to argue that our glorified bodies will contain no evil and will be infinitely more preferable to these earthly bodies.

 

[Darryl1958]

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which you have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s” (1 Corinthians 6:19).

 

[Robert_Sock]

I take that passage to heart and I live a life of prayerful solitude to serve God. And I glorify God with my body and soul. But I still believe that God created these bodies specifically so we may stay prisoners here in the lowest work of creation.

 

[mytruepower2]

Any Biblical metaphor about the world that does not leave us in a state of wonder about the world, and openess to the true nature of a world which God so loved as to become an incarnate being in that world, is an empty metaphor.

Present proof of this please. I see no reason why I can -not- be in a state of wonder, and hold strong conclusions about the world, simply by believing the facts, which are surely not metaphors, as they can be outlined, demonstrated, and observed, in many cases.

Be that as it may, whether or not we are to take the Spirit of God itself as literal, or as strictly metaphor as you have suggested, the material world does not corrupt the soul, but it is the evil will of the soul that corrupts the world and the body.

I agree with your claim that free will, used for evil, is the source of all physical evil in the world, and, I would argue, all spiritual evil as well.

We cannot be saints unless we have a positive belief in the value of our actions in this world. If we are merely waiting to die we are not following the example or teaching of Jesus.

Equivocation. A positive -attitude- is about mood and how often one dwells on the positive vs the negative.

A positive -belief- is a belief that a certain statement is true, as opposed to a mere lack of belief in a statement.

If what you mean is that we can’t be saints if our pessimism causes us to lose faith in God, I agree. No one can reach Heaven without faith. However, this should not be misconstrued as saying that all pessimists go to Hell, or any such thing like that.

A person who regards this life as a prison is in a mental prison! It amounts to waiting for death instead of finding opportunities to help others.

I believe I’ve sufficiently refuted this in my last post. I stand by what I said there.

 

[tonyrey]

Why do so many saints suggest otherwise. I do believe that the body is in part good and admirable, but I also see it as partly evil and despicable. Like this world, the body is both good and evil. I wonder what our Catholic brothers and sisters who suffer through incurable, agonizing cancer or horrible panic attacks would say about this?

Robert, you are confusing natural evil with moral evil. The body is good but disease, disabilities and deformities are evil because they are dysteleological, i.e. they interfere with - and often prevent - development and fulfilment.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert, you are confusing natural evil with moral evil. The body is good but disease, disabilities and deformities are evil because they are dysteleological, i.e. they interfere with - and often prevent - development and fulfilment.

I’m saying that the body is partly evil because it allows sin to corrupt the soul and because it keeps us as prisoners in the lower world.

 

[tonyrey]

We cannot be saints unless we have a positive belief in the value of our actions in this world. If we are merely waiting to die we are not following the example or teaching of Jesus.

Non sequitur. We cannot be saints unless we have a positive belief in the value of our actions in this world.

A person who regards this life as a prison is in a mental prison! It amounts to waiting for death instead of finding opportunities to help others.

I believe I’ve sufficiently refuted this in my last post. I stand by what I said there.

You have not explained why a person who believes this life is a prison is not in a mental prison. Such a negative belief does not inspire but is enough to depress and dishearten anyone. It implies that we are all guilty of serious crimes and should regard one another as malefactors.

 

[GEddie]

I’m saying that the body is partly evil because it allows sin to corrupt the soul and because it keeps us as prisoners in the lower world.

Sin does not reside in our bodies.

You could examine me from my skulldome to my toe tips and hands, and although I am a sinner, you would not find my sins in the physical me. They reside in my mind and affections.

If sin resided in our bodies, how could our SOUL justly be required to do Purgatory for the fault of the BODY? The natural Body never sees Purgatory. Purgatory is just precisely because sin does NOT reside in the Body!

And we are not “prisoners” in the “lower world”. As human beings, it is where we need to be. As well speak of a fish being a “prisoner” of the ocean!

ICXC NIKA

 

[tonyrey]

Robert, you are confusing natural evil with moral evil. The body is good but dis

The body cannot be evil in any respect because it is created by God. It doesn’t “allow” because it doesn’t know what it is doing. A knife is not evil if it is used to kill someone. Jesus told us clearly that evil comes from **within **a person - not a thing.

Nor did He imply that we live in a “lower world”:

“Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.”

 

[tonyrey]

Sin does not reside in our bodies.

You could examine me from my skulldome to my toe tips and hands, and although I am a sinner, you would not find my sins in the physical me. They reside in my mind and affections.

If sin resided in our bodies, how could our SOUL justly be required to do Purgatory for the fault of the BODY? The natural Body never sees Purgatory. Purgatory is just precisely because sin does NOT reside in the Body!

And we are not “prisoners” in the “lower world”. As human beings, it is where we need to be. As well speak of a fish being a “prisoner” of the ocean!

ICXC NIKA