Are Some People Afraid Of The Latin Mass?

[malphono]

Re: Are Some People Afraid Of The Latin Mass ?

Yes without doubt.

Here's why. In my six months assocaition with this wonderful CAF, super abundant evidence is available that proves that there are a GREAT MANY folks out there who are clearly afraid of the Truth.

 The Extrodinary Latin Mass, is the closest encounter to God, next the Catholic Holy Communion.

  The Extrodinary Latin Mass, is God centered, God focused, faith enriching, and Catholic unifying. It's not about the GREAT US, it's about God and us.:yup: :love: :extrahappy:

You’ll see from my previous posts in this forum (and others) that I have a great appreciation for the EF, and as I have so often said, I do not attend the OF voluntarily. PP Benedict XVI gave a wonderful gift with Summorum Pontificum for which I am grateful.

That said, I am a “cradle Oriental” and must gently point out that the ancient and venerable liturgies of the Oriental and Eastern Churches are of equal dignity to the ancient an venerable liturgy of the Latin Church. None is superior to the other.

 

[Dauphin]

That said, I am a “cradle Oriental” and must gently point out that the ancient and venerable liturgies of the Oriental and Eastern Churches are of equal dignity to the ancient an venerable liturgy of the Latin Church. None is superior to the other.

Try telling that to the folks on the Eastern Catholicism forum. They’re liable to trash the Roman Canon.

 

[PJM]

Let’s wait a couple hundred years before we starting tinkering with the Mass yet again.

Why is it so difficult just to stay still for a while?

Great question that begs a frank answer.

The NO has “proven” to be detrimental to many, many thousands of once catholic souls.

1965 Mass attendance was about 70%, in 2007 is was about 25%.

1n 1965 the same 70% regullary went to the Sacrament of Reconcillation. 2007, Time Magazine quoted a “PEW” Report, that say’s now it’s only about 10%

“Fallen away catholics” are the second largest “christian” group in the USA.

Why? The No is about us. The Extrodinary Latin Mass is about God, and God’s love for us. Huge difference.

I hope we stay with a venacular Mass, but it Has to be, must become again God centered Worship.

Dear God, forgive us, and save us please!

 

[malphono]

Try telling that to the folks on the Eastern Catholicism forum. They’re liable to trash the Roman Canon.

Uh … no offense intended or implied here, but IMHO that is a bit of an unfair generalization.

I’m a “regular” in the Eastern Catholicism forum and have never seen any of the other “regulars” do anything of the sort. Of course that forum has its share of the usual “party poopers” (for want of a better term) who now and then get “rowdy” (again, for lack of a better word), but in general most posters (including non-regulars) are civil and respectful.

 

[weepixie71]

Have you been downtown to Sacred Heart? The priests there offer a very good OF. On Sunday the choir sings in Latin. And the Church is gorgeous!!!

sacredheartpeoria.com/PHOTOGALLERY5.html

i also wanted to tell you, did you know that there is a tlm mass at the chapel in osf hospital when the bishop allows it? fr. has it there at least once a month. the bishop will not allow the priest to advertise that the mass is said there. when he is not saying mass there he is saying mass in princeville.
he used to say it at the hospital more often but the now that monsignor soseman is gone to rome he has to fill in at st mary of the woods. the time is posted wrong for the tlm there also. its at 11am.

 

[malphono]

So the name of the animal is German, the name of the meat is French - doesn’t matter, we use both words in roughly equal proportion, it’s not like we really (in general) talk about meat more than animals, do we? So you can’t say the French predominates the language by any stretch of the imagination.

In grammar especially (which is by far the biggest barrier when English speakers try to learn Romance languages) English is in fact in a class of its own - significant differences even from German let alone any other European tongue.

Yes, thank you, I know. And BTW, I never said that “French predominates.” That is your misinterpretation.

LilyM:

As for the coat of arms - of course you’re talking about the Queen’s coat of Arms. There is more than one royal coat of arms, you know. The Prince of Wales’ coat of arms, for example, has the motto ‘Ich Dien’ - which is German.

Of course I probably should have said the monarchial arms. The badge is not that of the Queen per se: the same arms are used for a King as well.

LilyM:

Pure subjective personal opinion. Of no more significance than the fact that you might like the colour blue better than yellow or vice versa.

And why should I learn any non-liturgical prayer in Latin? I don’t care to, I don’t have to, it does not add to my life in any way to, and I’ve got many other things that I need to spend my mental energy on.

And yours, of course, isn’t a purely subjective personal opinion, right?

Rhetorical question to myself: Really, why did I waste my time? :banghead: :banghead:

 

[LilyM]

Because the Pope said to. Aren’t you folks always on about how the Holy Father can do no wrong?

He’s said that every Catholic should learn the Pater Noster and Ave Maria (among others) in Latin:

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0503776.htm

The Holy Spirit guides absolutely everything the Pope does, right? So what are you waiting for? Get to work!

Strawman. I’ve never claimed this about everything the Pope says or does, and especially not in regard to things which are SUGGESTIONS rather than COMMANDS - unlike you, apparently, I can tell the difference between the two categories of statement.

 

[LilyM]

Yes, thank you, I know. And BTW, I never said that “French predominates.” That is your misinterpretation.

You lumped English in with the ‘Romance’ languages, at least by implication, knowing that most of us here are native English speakers. It ain’t, even if there is some French (and indeed some Latin) in it.

And yours, of course, isn’t a purely subjective personal opinion, right?

Rhetorical question to myself: Really, why did I waste my time? :banghead: :banghead:

Of course it’s my purely subjective personal opinion - the difference between us is that I’m not spouting my preference as superior to yours, nor my preferred language as ‘holier’.

 

[ProVobis]

Strawman. I’ve never claimed this about everything the Pope says or does, and especially not in regard to things which are SUGGESTIONS rather than COMMANDS - unlike you, apparently, I can tell the difference between the two categories of statement.

Maybe Mr. Strawman should have asked under which category the WISHING and HOPING fell that came along with the Novus Ordo.

 

[malphono]

You said that English was a ‘Romance’ language and thus related to Latin. It ain’t, even if there is some French (and indeed some Latin) in it.

The above is merely YOUR mis-interpretation of what I wrote. Again, thank you, but I am quite familiar with the English language and its etymology.

Of course it’s my purely subjective personal opinion - the difference between us is that I’m not spouting my preference as superior to yours, nor my preferred language as ‘holier’.

Time for more rhetorical questions: Did I say my preference was superior? Did I say the language I prefer to use is “holier?” Did you actually read what I wrote?

In any event, this exchange has become absurd. It’s over. Not worth the trouble.:banghead:

 

[bcra]

i am american catholic raised in a catholic grammar school. i never understood latin therefore it was worthless to me and several catholic friends as we had no idea what was said we need it in english or the mass is never understood remember not everyone can understand latin

 

[ProVobis]

i am american catholic raised in a catholic grammar school. i never understood latin therefore it was worthless to me and several catholic friends as we had no idea what was said we need it in english or the mass is never understood remember not everyone can understand latin

Boy, that’s one sentence that most couldn’t diagram.

If nothing else Latin used to teach English grammar better than the English teachers could.

 

[LilyM]

The above is merely YOUR mis-interpretation of what I wrote. Again, thank you, but I am quite familiar with the English language and its etymology.

This is the quote from you:

people don’t want to learn anything new and nowadays Latin is considered something you have to learn rather than something that flows naturally from the [romance] language you speak.

You DO realise that you are addressing a forum of predominantly native English-speakers here, right? And that the ‘people’ you are discussing in the above passage by implication includes the native English-speakers, since you don’t include us out of it?

For us native English speakers Latin has ALWAYS been something you ‘have to learn’ and it has NEVER ‘flowed naturally from the [romance] language [we] speak’ because we don’t SPEAK any romance language.

True, Latin HAS been more widely used in the past in certain professions such as medicine and law, and the classics generally (Greek and Latin) were more widely taught in schools in the past. That didn’t make it any the less unnatural for a native English speaker, or any the less something that had to be learned, it just meant that more of them were required to learn it in times past.

Time for more rhetorical questions: Did I say my preference was superior?

absolutely - another quote from you

I love the Latin Mass and think it is much holier than the English Mass.

Note you distinguished between the types of Mass on the basis of language use - you know there ARE Novus Ordo Masses said in Latin, which are also thus Latin Masses, so you are implying that they too are holier than when exactly the same prayers are said in English.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Certainly not afraid of it but it seems more like a theater show than mass. The Catholic Church changed from it over couple of popes and has been affirmed repeatedly the NO is what they want. I do enjoy learning about the TLM as Pope Benedict XVI has opened this up again.

In our area there is one TLM mass a week with about 20-40 people attending. This is pulling from an area that has 35,000 Catholics attending the NO every week. TLM followers are very small percentage.

What I am afraid of is that it seems like a schism and the TLM hero Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre has created something like a schism.

When I read the SSPX faqs, it makes me wonder about them. I would say read the FAQ and see how that sets with you.

sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__traditional.htm

Is it a sin for a traditional Catholic family to have a television in the home?
To make of the family home a sanctuary consecrated to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary where evening prayers are recited in the family and, if possible, the Rosary. Liturgical life should be paramount on Sundays and feast days. Avoid everything that could harm the souls of children; television, unclean magazines.
Surely this means that televisions should not even be present in the home, in the same way that a Catholic man would detest the thought of having unclean magazines somewhere hidden in his home.

Is the Novus Ordo Mass invalid, or sacrilegious, and should I assist at it when I have no alternative?
Consequently, it is not permissible for a traditional Catholic, who understands that the New Mass is insulting to Our Divine Savior, to assist at the New Mass, and this even if there is no danger of scandal to others or of the perversion of one’s own Faith (as in an older person, for example), and even if it is the only Mass available.

 

[malphono]

…

Just to set the record straight:

I suggest you look again. The words you quote are NOT mine. In other words, **you are **absolutely quoting the wrong person: the quotes to which you refer are from another poster (Appleby in post #64 in this thread). My comment was **post #72 ** and had nothing to do with them. It was simply an interjection on what you said in post # 70.

Apparently my third rhetorical question in post #110 was correct: you didn’t bother to read what I wrote, but jumped down my throat anyway.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[LilyM]

Just to set the record straight:

I suggest you look again. The words you quote are NOT mine. In other words, **you are **absolutely quoting the wrong person: the quotes to which you refer are from another poster (Appleby in post #64 in this thread). My comment was **post #72 ** and had nothing to do with them. It was simply an interjection on what you said in post # 70.

Apparently my third rhetorical question in post #110 was correct: you didn’t bother to read what I wrote, but jumped down my throat anyway.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

You’re right, forgive me.

Since you’re so much more with-it than my poor self, how come you didn’t bother to TELL me that I had in fact mistaken your posts for those of another?

Be that as it may I did make the mistake, and again I apologise.

 

[ASD]

Certainly not afraid of it but it seems more like a theater show than mass.

I guess I know what you mean. Precise movements of altar boys, etc. Sometimes it reminds me of close order drill. But, people often think OF priest is being too much of a showman, drawing too much attention to himself, as well.

What I am afraid of is that it seems like a schism and the TLM hero Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre has created something like a schism.

Please don’t assume that TLM/EF is somehow equivalent to Lefebvre and SSPX. Those guys don’t own it!

When I read the SSPX faqs, it makes me wonder about them. I would say read the FAQ and see how that sets with you.

It’s entirely possible for EF Catholics to completely ignore SSPX, as I do.

Is it a sin for a traditional Catholic family to have a television in the home?

On the other hand, any group that has the good sense to tell people to turn the TV off can’t be all bad.

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar

 

[LilyM]

On the other hand, any group that has the good sense to tell people to turn the TV off can’t be all bad.

No - tv has plenty of good educational/practical stuff on it that can be great for kids and adults alike. Just got to watch out for the crud.

Like alcohol, tv should not be abused or misused, but that’s no reason to turn it off completely or get rid of it.

 

[malphono]

You’re right, forgive me.

Since you’re so much more with-it than my poor self, how come you didn’t bother to TELL me that I had in fact mistaken your posts for those of another?

Be that as it may I did make the mistake, and again I apologise.

It was only in your post #113 that it actually became clear.

In any case, apology accepted and the matter is now forgotten.

 

[Dauphin]

Certainly not afraid of it but it seems more like a theater show than mass.

I think you have it completely backwards.

At the New Mass I most frequently attend, the priest goes out of his way to entertain the audience, cracking jokes and prancing around the sanctuary like it’s his little stage. There’s an endless flow of extras moving in and out of the sanctuary - EMHCs, lay readers, altar girls, and random people at the offertory. The whole thing comes across as a big theatre production, completely divorced from the spirit of the liturgy, without any sense of the majesty of God and the mystery of the Eucharist.

The Traditional Latin Mass is the exact opposite. The personality of the priest diminishes to make room for the action of Christ. The prayers are humbly and silently made. The sacrifice is given due reverence. Instead of being about entertaining the people, it’s about giving glory to God.