Are there any saints who died with baptism of desire

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convertingtocatholic

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I have the baptism of desire and I still have a strong relationship with Christ I am working on getting baptized so please pray I do.
I was wondering and I heard there was this one saint that wasn’t baptized but mytared or something but had the baptism of blood/ or desire.
 
Even though Saint Dismas was probably Baptized, he would be a good example.
 
convertingtocatholic said:
I have the baptism of desire and I still have a strong relationship with Christ I am working on getting baptized so please pray I do.
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I don’t know your situation so please to not take what I say as a judgement on you. Only God can judge whether or not you truly have a Baptism of desire. These are just two examples of what is and isn’t a Baptism of desire.

Person A feels a calling to be Catholic after attending the Easter Vigil Mass this year. Decides to take the step and enters RCIA or even just signs up for RCIA that isn’t starting for another 6 months from now. Now this person won’t be Baptized for like another year. Seeing that he is in RCIA we know and he is showing evidence of desiring to be Baptized. If something were to happen to him we could be very confident that he did have a Baptism of desire.

Now Person B also attends the Easter Vigil Mass and says he desires to be Baptized and enters RCIA. As time passes and the first RCIA class arrives he decides he doesn’t have the time to make that commitment this year. But affirms his Baptism of desire and says he will get to it next year when life slows down. A year passes and he makes the same excuse. This continues year after year after year. Sure we aren’t in the position to judge what is in his heart but if something were to happen to him, as humans, we tend to believe actions speak louder than words. Baptism of desire in his case? Not so confident on saying yes here.

Like I said no judgment on you. This is just the way I’ve heard it explained on CAL.

God Bless
 
Perhaps the Muslim man who was rounded up with a bunch of Christians by ISIS and when they were all being killed he had the opportunity to say that he was a Muslim, but instead decided that he wanted to receive execution because he was inspired by the faith of the Christians who were dying and said that he wanted to have the faith they had.
 
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AugustTherese said:
Even though Saint Dismas was probably Baptized, he would be a good example.
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The sacrament of baptism was instituted after his death, so he couldn’t possibly have been baptized. (NB: John’s baptism wasn’t the sacrament of baptism, nor did it have the same effects).

St Dismas is a good example of “baptism of desire.” 👍
 
Gorgias said:
The sacrament of baptism was instituted after his death, so he couldn’t possibly have been baptized.
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The Sacrament of Holy Baptism was instituted when Our Lord was Baptized. (Wink, wink).
 
AugustTherese said:
The Sacrament of Holy Baptism was instituted when Our Lord was Baptized. (Wink, wink).
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No, it really wasn’t.

You’re suggesting that all those whom John baptized – or even those whom the apostles baptized prior to Jesus’ resurrection – received the sacrament of baptism?

No… they didn’t.

Please recall that, in baptism, we share in Christ’s death (see Romans 6:3), so that we might have a share in His resurrection. At the time of the baptisms of John, Christ’s death and resurrection hadn’t yet happened; therefore, by definition, his baptisms could not be the sacrament of baptism. 😉
 
Gorgias said:
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AugustTherese:
The Sacrament of Holy Baptism was instituted when Our Lord was Baptized. (Wink, wink).
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No, it really wasn’t.

You’re suggesting that all those whom John baptized – or even those whom the apostles baptized prior to Jesus’ resurrection – received the sacrament of baptism?

No… they didn’t.

Please recall that, in baptism, we share in Christ’s death (see Romans 6:3), so that we might have a share in His resurrection. At the time of the baptisms of John, Christ’s death and resurrection hadn’t yet happened; therefore, by definition, his baptisms could not be the sacrament of baptism. 😉
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It seems as though your thinking might be stuck in temporal realities. For instance, the Sacrament of the Eucharist was instituted before the fruition of the Paschal Mystery. But, do we need to dichotomize the Sacrifice of the Mass from Calvary? No, there is one Sacrifice, two elements which transcends time and brings the past, present, and future together.

“On the contrary, Augustine says in a sermon on the Epiphany (Append. Serm., clxxxv): “As soon as Christ was plunged into the waters, the waters washed away the sins of all.” But this was before Christ’s Passion. Therefore Baptism was instituted before Christ’s Passion.

I answer that, As stated above (Question 62, Article 1), sacraments derive from their institution the power of conferring grace. Wherefore it seems that a sacrament is then instituted, when it receives the power of producing its effect. Now Baptism received this power when Christ was baptized. Consequently Baptism was truly instituted then, if we consider it as a sacrament. But the obligation of receiving this sacrament was proclaimed to mankind after the Passion and Resurrection. First, because Christ’s Passion put an end to the figurative sacraments, which were supplanted by Baptism and the other sacraments of the New Law. Secondly, because by Baptism man is “made conformable” to Christ’s Passion and Resurrection, in so far as he dies to sin and begins to live anew unto righteousness. Consequently it behooved Christ to suffer and to rise again, before proclaiming to man his obligation of conforming himself to Christ’s Death and Resurrection.” - Summa Theologica III:66:2

Wink?
 
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AugustTherese said:
Wink?
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Fascinating!

OK… it seems that what’s in play is the technical use of the term “instituted” here. Naturally, we want to say that Christ Himself instituted all the sacraments, so naturally, we must look to events in His earthly life to find these “institutions”. However, what Aquinas refers to as “obligation” sounds more like “when the sacrament actually began to be celebrated.”

From your quote: “Christ’s Passion put an end to the figurative sacraments, which were supplanted by baptism and the other sacraments.”

So, it seems, Christ’s Passion was what made possible the celebration of the seven sacraments. Which, if you scroll upthread, is what I’d claimed all along. 😉
 
Gorgias said:
So, it seems, Christ’s Passion was what made possible the celebration of the seven sacraments. Which, if you scroll upthread, is what I’d claimed all along.
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Except you said “instituted”, not celebrated. Christ instituted the Sacrament of Holy Baptism in the Trinitarian Rite at His Baptism. Not ‘after’ His death and resurrection, but before.
 
AugustTherese said:
Except you said “instituted”, not celebrated.
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Right, right. And you’ve corrected me on sloppy use of terminology. Good catch. 👍

However, I was rebutting your claim that the sacrament of baptism was celebrated prior to Christ’s death. That’s even stronger a case, now that you’ve quoted St Thomas’s support that it was the Passion and Resurrection that enabled sacraments to be celebrated.
 
Gorgias said:
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AugustTherese:
Except you said “instituted”, not celebrated.
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Right, right. And you’ve corrected me on sloppy use of terminology. Good catch. 👍

However, I was rebutting your claim that the sacrament of baptism was celebrated prior to Christ’s death. That’s even stronger a case, now that you’ve quoted St Thomas’s support that it was the Passion and Resurrection that enabled sacraments to be celebrated.
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Whatever makes you sleep better at night. 😃
 
AugustTherese said:
Whatever makes you sleep better at night.
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The truth. 😉

(And, the truth is… the sacrament of baptism wasn’t celebrated prior to Pentecost.)

Let’s be honest – if you think that a claim of institution is the same as a claim of celebration, then you’re on mighty thin ice. 🤷‍♂️
 
Gorgias said:
And, the truth is… the sacrament of baptism wasn’t celebrated prior to Pentecost.)
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After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he spent some time there with them and baptized.
John 3:22

Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard, ‘Jesus is making and baptizing more disciples than John’— although it was not Jesus himself but his disciples who baptized—
John 4:1-2

So…?
 
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