Are there people here at CAF, Catholics and non-Catholics that for the sake of ecumenicalism are compromising their own faith?

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ralphinal said:
Is it fair or acceptable for a Catholic to say/beleive that a non-Catholic is going to hell because they are non-Catholic?

No. To condemn is wrong (if that’s what was meant). Everyone has a chance to conversion (sooner or later) and coming back to the Catholic fold.

Can we say that non-Catholic churches are tools of the devil?

To me, I’ll blame the teachers not the kids…

Can we say that the souls of all non-Catholics are in real danger of being lost because they are non-Catholic?

Yes. If they learn about the Catholic Church and her teachings about salvation and still refuse to enter it.
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I won’t compromise truth. Not even for peace!
Why should I compromise my Catholic faith when I am 100% sure it is the True faith?
 
thirdn6 said:
I won’t compromise truth. Not even for peace!
Why should I compromise my Catholic faith when I am 100% sure it is the True faith?
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Nothing you said is problematic to me, save the line that everyone has the opportunity to learn the Catholic faith and choose to enter it. That is a universal statement that I think is impossible to make.
 
If I, as a Lutheran, say the following, am I compromising my own faith?
  1. The Lutheran confessions contain a 500 year old polemic that the papacy is antichrist. I condemn this statement and strongly believe it should be removed.
  2. Transubstantiation, while not what I hold to, should not be condemned, as it is a reasonable human expression of what happens at consecration.
  3. Catholics should not be condemned for their intercession of Mary and the saints as there is no specific scriptural condemnation of the practice.
Jon
 
JonNC said:
If I, as a Lutheran, say the following, am I compromising my own faith?
  1. The Lutheran confessions contain a 500 year old polemic that the papacy is antichrist. I condemn this statement and strongly believe it should be removed.
  2. Transubstantiation, while not what I hold to, should not be condemned, as it is a reasonable human expression of what happens at consecration.
  3. Catholics should not be condemned for their intercession of Mary and the saints as there is no specific scriptural condemnation of the practice.
Jon
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Which Synod 😉
  1. I would say no as there is no dogmatic reason to accept this as a Lutherin
  2. I would say maybe, as it different than cosubstantiation in we hold it to be a permanant change
  3. I would say no. If sola scriptura is the order of the day, no scriptura, no issue
 
JonNC said:
If I, as a Lutheran, say the following, am I compromising my own faith?
  1. The Lutheran confessions contain a 500 year old polemic that the papacy is antichrist. I condemn this statement and strongly believe it should be removed.
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If the papacy isn’t the anti-Christ, then why be Lutheran?😉
 
ralphinal said:
Which Synod 😉
  1. I would say no as there is no dogmatic reason to accept this as a Lutherin
  2. I would say maybe, as it different than cosubstantiation in we hold it to be a permanant change
  3. I would say no. If sola scriptura is the order of the day, no scriptura, no issue
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LCMS
 
mozart-250 said:
Now I would think that if you want to talk Catholicism in either the Non-catholic Religions or Apologetics forums that you would want to make as much of a convincing case as possible for your faith to the non-Catholics on these forums. Just saying…

You are the ones that are claiming that only your denomination is the true church of Jesus Christ.

For one the Catholic church is not a denomination, this why I visit the noncatholic forum, to help clear up these false claims about the Catholic faith. As a Roman Catholic, I do not make the claim that the Catholic church is the true church of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the one who states, this fact when he built his Church on Peter, present day Pope. I only repeat what Jesus States clearly in scripture.

Those are lofty claims, and quite frankly they should not be believed unless the claims of a superior faith are equally matched by a superior lifestyle.

**What more of a witnesse lifestyle are refusing to believe, when our Catholic forefathers were martyred for the Christian faith, that you enjoy, what sort of lifestyle do you question, when our priests take a vow of chastity, poverty, and obedience to the Gospel of Jesus. What type of lifestyle is pleasing to you, when a Catholic is willing to give up his life for another, including a stranger. Where is this lifestyle you look for , when Pope John Paul the great, forgave the man who shot him, and tried to kill him, kissed him, prayed for him, and Loved his enemy for all the world to witness and gave testimony to the teachings of Jesus and lived them out. So quite frankly, I dont have enough room to give an account of the lifestyle of the Roman Catholic who confesses his sin, and offers daily sacrifice and thanksgiving to God, in the form of flesh and blood, where no other faith lives this biblical type of lifestyly, but can only be found in the Catholic church. What type of lifestyle are you looking for? other than the one Jesus states, take up your cross and follow me. **

Now I know it is not fair to any faith to judge it by nuts talking about it over the internet, but still some of you by your demeanor undermine your own objectives here.
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This is true, all across the board. What is sharing your faith? being a living testimony of what you believe.

Peace be with you.
 
mozart-250 said:
Now I know it is not fair to any faith to judge it by nuts talking about it over the internet, but still some of you by your demeanor undermine your own objectives here.
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Hello mozart250,

We don’t always agree and I do intend to respond to some of the other posters here, when I have more time but I had to drop a line or two…here.

Sometimes, when we are defending our faiths here at CAF, we can get caught-up in the moment and take things way too seriously.

I also agree with the OP on this thread; I too, have enjoyed the dialog and even the "arguments’ that I have had with most of the posters here. I have read some really good discussions here, with Catholics and Protestants making excellent points. I have learned something from Catholics and non-Catholics here. Some of my most enjoyable “conversations” have been with non-Catholics.

When I read this quote of yours, I cracked up…how true… and your quote could apply to people here of any religion, it could even apply to the “normal” people here…on a bad day.

Let’s not discourage the “nutty” posts though…we all need some comedy relief every so often.

Thanks for making me smile…great line…

Peace 🙂
 
mozart-250 said:
…Now I know it is not fair to any faith to judge it by nuts talking about it over the internet, but still some of you by your demeanor undermine your own objectives here.
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Hello mozart250,

We don’t always agree and I do intend to respond to some of the other posters here, when I have more time but I had to drop a line or two…here.

Sometimes, when we are defending our faiths here at CAF, we can get caught-up in the moment and take things way too seriously.

I also agree with the OP on this thread; I too, have enjoyed the dialog and even the "arguments’ that I have had with most of the posters here. I have read some really good discussions here, with Catholics and Protestants making excellent points.

I have learned something from Catholics and non-Catholics here and some of my most enjoyable “conversations” have been with non-Catholics.

When I read this quote of yours, I cracked up…how true…I know that I have been guilty of this myself and your quote could apply to people here of any religion, it could even apply to the “normal” people here…on a bad day.

Let’s not discourage the “nutty” posts though…we all need some comedy relief every so often.

Thanks for making me smile…great line…

Peace 🙂
 
I think most people can determine for themselves what degree of compromise they can accept in good conscience in their core beliefs. To me the core thing people must respect in any debate is the freedom for me to decide my position on a difficult moral issue according to my own conscience, and not try to force me to act against my conscience, or hold a belief against my conscience. Someone who can’t respect that is not someone I can get along with. But otherwise, even if someone has a belief very different from my own, I feel we can co-exist.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Exactly, isn’t a Catholic who undermines another Catholic here, who is posting something that is true…undermining their own faith?

But obviously the question at issue is whether it is true. The Catholics who criticize you presumably think that what they are criticizing is not true. In many cases they may be criticizing your style rather than the substance of what you are saying. And as a non-Catholic I assure you that they are not undermining their own faith by doing this. On the contrary, the fact that so many Catholics are willing to go after their own in the interests of truth and fairness gives me a great respect for Catholicism. Belligerent, unfair, and ill-informed posts undermine Catholicism. Criticism of such posts by Catholics strengthens Catholicism.

I think the plain truth here is that you have been rightly criticized by your fellow Catholics for some of your posts, and are trying to turn yourself into some kind of martyr for the cause of truth. This is simply self-deception.
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I have had other Catholics here go after me for something as simple as a thread title,
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Thread titles are important. Some of your thread titles have been very poorly chosen. If your fellow Catholics have gone after you for them, then they have shown that they understand good apologetics. You need to learn from them instead of becoming defensive.
Yet, threads titles like, “Was Mary Raped by God”, which I repeatedly complained about, get absolutely no response from these same people.
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What is there to respond to? I don’t respond to some of your thread titles for the same reason–they are obviously just posted to be provocative. The most effective rebuttal of such a thread is to ignore it. But if someone claiming to agree with me posted such a thread, I would go after him.

You simply don’t seem to understand how effective debate works. Rude and provocative arguments made by someone on your own side do a lot of damage to the cause–such arguments made by the other side are best ignored, because they essentially refute themselves.
It appears to me that our Protestant friends here, might be more united than Catholics here and that concerns me.
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I don’t know how you think Protestants on this forum are united. I think this is an “optical illusion” born from your own fears. However, if you really want Catholics to move in lockstep, perhaps you should find some wise and learned Catholic and all agree with him or her. The way to speak with a united voice is not for one rather hotheaded person (such as yourself) to run around saying silly and belligerent things and then demanding that all other Catholics back him up!

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
But obviously the question at issue is whether it is true. The Catholics who criticize you presumably think that what they are criticizing is not true. In many cases they may be criticizing your style rather than the substance of what you are saying. And as a non-Catholic I assure you that they are not undermining their own faith by doing this. On the contrary, the fact that so many Catholics are willing to go after their own in the interests of truth and fairness gives me a great respect for Catholicism. Belligerent, unfair, and ill-informed posts undermine Catholicism. Criticism of such posts by Catholics strengthens Catholicism.

I think the plain truth here is that you have been rightly criticized by your fellow Catholics for some of your posts, and are trying to turn yourself into some kind of martyr for the cause of truth. This is simply self-deception.
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Thread titles are important. Some of your thread titles have been very poorly chosen. If your fellow Catholics have gone after you for them, then they have shown that they understand good apologetics. You need to learn from them instead of becoming defensive.

What is there to respond to? I don’t respond to some of your thread titles for the same reason–they are obviously just posted to be provocative. The most effective rebuttal of such a thread is to ignore it. But if someone claiming to agree with me posted such a thread, I would go after him.

You simply don’t seem to understand how effective debate works. Rude and provocative arguments made by someone on your own side do a lot of damage to the cause–such arguments made by the other side are best ignored, because they essentially refute themselves.

I don’t know how you think Protestants on this forum are united. I think this is an “optical illusion” born from your own fears. However, if you really want Catholics to move in lockstep, perhaps you should find some wise and learned Catholic and all agree with him or her. The way to speak with a united voice is not for one rather hotheaded person (such as yourself) to run around saying silly and belligerent things and then demanding that all other Catholics back him up!

Edwin

Are you trying to say that JimmyB is hotheaded? In defense of this extremely intelligent man, not to say the least of his patience with you people and his knowledge of his Catholic church should make every non-Catholic Christian take a second look at their own “denomination” and determine which is the ‘correct’ faith.
Jimmy has been nothing but patient and tolerant of people bashing our church. I am very happy he is on this sight with the knowledge he has and his respect and reverance he has toward Almighty God. Not to say he also belongs to the Knights of Columbus which also shows me his love of his faith. How many here can compare themselves to this man? not many.

So jimmy what I have to say is “Keep up the good work”. 👍
 
I would say no but didn’t vote. I think we all want to get along, in charity. I know lots of non-C and sing with them and went on a trip with them, about 10 of us Catholics and about 25 other and we all got along fine I even had a chance to explain things about what they wanted to know. But you know I have learned not to race back to Church and tell my friends what I did because of the ones that never go to any wheres only with their group. There are some Catholic things in secular gift shops and vice versa. We must stand for what we believe.
 
Contarini said:
…You simply don’t seem to understand how effective debate works…
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If only you knew…:rolleyes:

Hello Edwin, no need to get personal. When I started this thread, my question was for both, Catholics and non-Catholics and only when asked, did I provide a “Catholic example”.

When I wrote earlier, that I have really enjoyed many of my discussions here with non-Catholics and this includes you, I meant it.

Please, do not confuse people here, on a “religious” web site and based on their posts, as being one-dimensional, most here are not.

I have followed many posters here and I have been very impressed by many of them. I have also noticed that very few here, post in either an all negative or in an all positive way.

Many of the negative and “personal” type comments that I have read here, appear to be by, “hit-and-run” type posters, where it is apparent that the poster hasn’t read enough of what the person has written to form an accurate opinion.

Some posters here “play it safe”, with short “one liners” and threads that involve things like words chains and other “fun” games that are non-denominational and in many cases, non- religious. Some here do things to make sure, not to offend. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, because I know that some people do not like any type of conflict and that’s ok too.

When ever I read “hit-and-run” posts here, where another poster is criticized, the first thing I do is go back and read their thread titles; see what sort of activity they get on their threads and try and read enough posts, on various threads by them to form a limited opinion. I like to, “sort-of” know whom I am having a discussion with.

What I have discovered is, that a vast majority of posters here at CAF, appear to be good and decent people and I like good people…whether they are protestant or Catholic.

However, when we get into the “nuts and bolts” of any theological discussion here, me personally, I feel that it is important that a person not compromise their own faith for the sake of being “nice”, in less of course… they are planning to convert.

If anyone here post’s a strong opinion, then they should be prepared to defend their opinion….wouldn’t you agree?

In this case, where we are talking about Christianity and some, for example, claim that the Bible is their sole authority, then they should expect that others here will ask them to provide Bible verses, which support their position…right?

I look forward to reading more of your posts…

Peace 🙂
 
Yes… I believe there are those that are compromising.
I, in all honesty, am not. 🙂
 
submittedjoy said:
Yes… I believe there are those that are compromising.
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I looked at the poll results so far, and you are not alone in feeling this way. Compromising the faith is a serious thing. To me it means to voluntarily deform the truths to “fit” the situation. If we see our brother doing it here on these forums, what should we do? This question is for everyone, not just you, submittedjoy.

One answer is to make a thread to discuss if people are doing it, as Jimmy B has done. This raises the issue, so people think about it. Is this all to do, or is there more?

Just to throw something out there, and not to limit people’s thoughts on this issue to the following, on some religious websites, they have a private forum in addition to the public ones. In the private one, they discuss things like how to best work together, as far as I can tell (I’m never on the private board, because I’ve encountered this phenomenon on boards for *other *religions, not mine). I mention this because part of the tenor of this thread is about working together and/or not undermining each other. That is not the same as deliberately deforming the truth, but it is a related thing.
 
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