Are there people here at CAF, Catholics and non-Catholics that for the sake of ecumenicalism are compromising their own faith?

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I’m having difficulty understanding the premise of this thread.

What exactly is “compromising your faith for the sake of ecumenicalism”?
 
I’m having difficulty understanding the premise of this thread.

What exactly is “compromising your faith for the sake of ecumenicalism”?
I took it to mean “Are CAtholics who agree with non-Catholics on issues hurting the faith?” I can agree with you on tons of things and not have any effect on the faith. Further, I can disagree with Catholics on things and likewise not harm anyone.
 
I took it to mean “Are CAtholics who agree with non-Catholics on issues hurting the faith?” I can agree with you on tons of things and not have any effect on the faith. Further, I can disagree with Catholics on things and likewise not harm anyone.
I agree with this.

I get the impression that Catholics who call out other Catholics on issues of say lack of charity are somehow compromising their faith. If this is true…I don’t get it…could someone explain that logic to me.

If that is the logic, then I guess the moderators who boot Catholics off from this forum are the worst offenders in this regards.
 
I agree with this.

I get the impression that Catholics who call out other Catholics on issues of say lack of charity are somehow compromising their faith. If this is true…I don’t get it…could someone explain that logic to me.

If that is the logic, then I guess the moderators who boot Catholics off from this forum are the worst offenders in this regards.
And there are Catholics who feel that their opinion represents the Church in all things. If I state a different opinion, then I am bringing down the faith. Sometimes, Catholics are wrong. The Church is not, but we are.

There was a Sean Connery movie years ago. In the Name of the Rose, I think it was. He was a Franciscan who was investigating a situation at a Dominican (I think) monestary. One of the issues that popped up was an argument about if Jesus owned his own clothing. Now, the Church has never and will never make a ruling on this. But, there are some on here who would take the opposite side than you just because you are non-Catholic. That does more damage than me being charitable or even siding with you on the issue.
 
When I answered the poll itself, I took the question to be, “Are there Catholics at CAF who are deliberately misrepresenting or diluting truths of the faith to try and convert people or to try and make Catholics seem like reasonable people?”

An example would be for a Catholic to conceal some of the Church teachings about works in order to convert someone. Some people might do it just out of some kind of “hope”, and not realize they are doing it. I certainly wouldn’t include those who are doing it from ignorance of doctrine.

I took it to be a question about “false irenism” perhaps. But it became clear as I started to read the posts to the thread that something else was part of the question in people’s minds. If all we do is tear each other down, that won’t help anyone who is listening, that’s for sure. So it is a good thing to think about what we are doing.
 
I’ve noticed here and elsewhere, that some adult Catholic converts, want to bring some of their previous beliefs with them and some of these beliefs are contrary to Catholic teachings.

For example, some want to be Catholic and still belong to the Freemasons. Some believe that birth control is ok…Some, even after converting, believe that Christians are save by faith alone…Some Catholic converts believe that they can decide what is best for them…

Some Catholics do not want to tell other non-Catholics, who they feel might convert, that the Catholic Church still teaches that doing, or failing to do certain things, may cause a person to go to Hell.

Catholicism does not teach; 'Once saved, always saved…

I think that some Catholics leave out the more challenging parts of Catholicism, when attempting to convert non-Catholics.

Then again, we have “Cradle Catholics” who are “Cafeteria Catholics”, meaning, that they pick and choose the “parts” of Catholicism that they will follow, or agree with.

The biggest difference I see between Catholicism and some other Christian denominations, is that Catholicism requires complete surrender, where personal interpretation and personal decisions on the issues of faith and morals, are allowed and even encouraged in some other Christian religions, as long as there is a belief in the main, core principles…

In other words, some Catholics here are acting like Protestant Christians.

Please correct me if I am wrong…
 
I’ve noticed here and elsewhere, that some adult Catholic converts, want to bring some of their previous beliefs with them and some of these beliefs are contrary to Catholic teachings.

For example, some want to be Catholic and still belong to the Freemasons. Some believe that birth control is ok…Some, even after converting, believe that Christians are save by faith alone…Some Catholic converts believe that they can decide what is best for them…

Some Catholics do not want to tell other non-Catholics, who they feel might convert, that the Catholic Church still teaches that doing, or failing to do certain things, may cause a person to go to Hell.

Catholicism does not teach; 'Once saved, always saved…

I think that some Catholics leave out the more challenging parts of Catholicism, when attempting to convert non-Catholics.

Then again, we have “Cradle Catholics” who are “Cafeteria Catholics”, meaning, that they pick and choose the “parts” of Catholicism that they will follow, or agree with.

The biggest difference I see between Catholicism and some other Christian denominations, is that Catholicism requires complete surrender, where personal interpretation and personal decisions on the issues of faith and morals, are allowed and even encouraged in some other Christian religions, as long as there is a belief in the main, core principles…

In other words, some Catholics here are acting like Protestant Christians.

Please correct me if I am wrong…
I would tend to disagree with this. I have found that most converts remain quite orthodox and faithful to the Church.

In fact, I have found that some of the best Catholics seems to be converts.

Personally, I have met only one or two cradle-Catholics who never fell away from the Church and are faithful and orthodox. I have met many reverts who, after a time realized their error and returned to full communion and orthodoxy.

I am a convert and I brought none of my previous beliefs with me.
 
Hey Jimmy, BTW, are you going to the 126th anniversary of the Knights of colombus? I believe it is being held in Canada but not sure…🙂
] I would love to but I live in Southern California. However, I did recently discover that a friend of mine from work was a Knight…I knew there was a reason I liked him…😃

Ecumenicalism is important and I pray for true Christian unity but one should not compromise their faith for the sake of ecumenicalism.

How about a Top 10 list of examples, where people might be compromising their faith for the sake of ecumenicalism….Anybody???

Peace 🙂
 
I’ve noticed here and elsewhere, that some adult Catholic converts, want to bring some of their previous beliefs with them and some of these beliefs are contrary to Catholic teachings.

For example, some want to be Catholic and still belong to the Freemasons. Some believe that birth control is ok…Some, even after converting, believe that Christians are save by faith alone…Some Catholic converts believe that they can decide what is best for them…

Some Catholics do not want to tell other non-Catholics, who they feel might convert, that the Catholic Church still teaches that doing, or failing to do certain things, may cause a person to go to Hell.

Catholicism does not teach; 'Once saved, always saved…

I think that some Catholics leave out the more challenging parts of Catholicism, when attempting to convert non-Catholics.

Then again, we have “Cradle Catholics” who are “Cafeteria Catholics”, meaning, that they pick and choose the “parts” of Catholicism that they will follow, or agree with.

The biggest difference I see between Catholicism and some other Christian denominations, is that Catholicism requires complete surrender, where personal interpretation and personal decisions on the issues of faith and morals, are allowed and even encouraged in some other Christian religions, as long as there is a belief in the main, core principles…

In other words, some Catholics here are acting like Protestant Christians.

Please correct me if I am wrong…
I have seen all four types: good converts, cafeteria converts, good cradle, cafeteria cradle. I cannot say that one is more likely than the other.

I have known of Catholics who would never dare to speak against the cafeteria folks. This bothers me. I tend to be tougher on cafeteria Catholics than non-Catholics.

Now, one thing that has gotten me in trouble is trying to explain to Freemasons why they need to leave the Lodge. I actually try to discuss it before resorting to “It is the rule, deal with it.” I know that tends to be the final answer, but I really want people to understand WHY the CHurch teaches it. If one understands the WHY one can more easily comply.
 
I would tend to disagree with this. I have found that most converts remain quite orthodox and faithful to the Church.

In fact, I have found that some of the best Catholics seems to be converts.

Personally, I have met only one or two cradle-Catholics who never fell away from the Church and are faithful and orthodox. I have met many reverts who, after a time realized their error and returned to full communion and orthodoxy.

I am a convert and I brought none of my previous beliefs with me.
Thank you…Good points!

There is no need to disagree, because you are writing about your own experiences, which I believe also applies to some Catholics…

I imagine though, with one billion Catholics worldwide that there are more than, “one or two cradle-Catholics who never fell away from the Church and are faithful and orthodox”…wouldn’t you agree???

We can start with all of the Popes, Bishops, Priests, Nuns and other Religious, who have given their entire life to Christ and His Church…not to mention, many of the Saints and Martyrs, who were cradle-Catholics….right?

Peace 🙂
 
I think it is human pride!! “What I believe has to be better than what you believe, because I’m right and you’re wrong.”
How un-Christlike for all of us to be this way!
This is a clear comprimise of our faith.

To the extent that what I believe is in keeping with the Magisterium and what another believes is contrary to the Magisterium, then yes, what I believe is better than what you believe, because I am right and you are wrong. That is not un-Christllike, that is just fact.

Is it uncharitable to tell a non-catholic that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?

Is it uncharitable to tell a woman that she cannot ever be a priest under any circumstances?

Is it uncharitable to tell a homosexual that although he may enter into a civil contract he can never marry another man because marriage is a sacrament between a man and a woman?

Is it uncharitable to tell a person whose church is pro-choice that to support abortion is to support murder.

Is it charitable to instead of voicing these unpopular truths to mutter pleasant and kind words that offend no one?
 
This is a clear comprimise of our faith.

To the extent that what I believe is in keeping with the Magisterium and what another believes is contrary to the Magisterium, then yes, what I believe is better than what you believe, because I am right and you are wrong. That is not un-Christllike, that is just fact.

Is it uncharitable to tell a non-catholic that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?

Is it uncharitable to tell a woman that she cannot ever be a priest under any circumstances?

Is it uncharitable to tell a homosexual that although he may enter into a civil contract he can never marry another man because marriage is a sacrament between a man and a woman?

Is it uncharitable to tell a person whose church is pro-choice that to support abortion is to support murder.

Is it charitable to instead of voicing these unpopular truths to mutter pleasant and kind words that offend no one?
Wouldn’t it depend on how you did it?
 
Hey Jimmy, BTW, are you going to the 126th anniversary of the Knights of colombus? I believe it is being held in Canada but not sure…🙂
Whoa!!! I’d be really careful about going to Canada just now, we Catholics aren’t real popular up there at the moment. Particularly if the subject of same sex marriage arises.
 
It’s not ok. 🙂 . Love is kind. When people start being unkind then a line has been crossed. The truth can be told through kindness.
Try telling that to an orthodox Priest or an Orhtodox Priest. You might be surprised. There is a point where your idea of being “kind” is actually hateful but not teaching the truth. So be careful how you “interpret teach the truth in love”. A good read of scripture will give a more clear view of what I’m saying. Love is truth too. God is love. We know He’s kind. But is he truth too? We have to dig beneath the surface meaning.

I voted “Yes” because there are people compromising to that point. Statistically true. And many Catholics sound almost like Edith on “All in the Family”. Gentle and dingy but well meaning… Oh that helps. Sounds like some in my family. I appreciate a little tention or rather conviction in a Protestant that beleives what he says and has some backing for his convictions. But some of us Catholics make near fools out of ourselves saying almost anything to be friendly. I call that selling out or wishy-washy. No one person can posses all truth all of the time. We are imperfect because of sin. The charity is when we realize this when speaking to others. We carefully reveal what we know to be true, hoefully. Plant the seed and God will make it grow.
 
This is a clear comprimise of our faith.

To the extent that what I believe is in keeping with the Magisterium and what another believes is contrary to the Magisterium, then yes, what I believe is better than what you believe, because I am right and you are wrong. That is not un-Christllike, that is just fact.

Is it uncharitable to tell a non-catholic that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?

Is it uncharitable to tell a woman that she cannot ever be a priest under any circumstances?

Is it uncharitable to tell a homosexual that although he may enter into a civil contract he can never marry another man because marriage is a sacrament between a man and a woman?

Is it uncharitable to tell a person whose church is pro-choice that to support abortion is to support murder.

Is it charitable to instead of voicing these unpopular truths to mutter pleasant and kind words that offend no one?
Hello Marsha,

I agree and I think that for many, that “charitable” means, agreeing with them and as Catholics, we are to agree with the Pope and the Magisterium and by doing so; we are truly being “charitable” and… we are “agreeing” with the true teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sometimes, telling someone the truth may not seem very “charitable” to the person hearing the truth…and that’s unfortunate.

If I told a child not to run across a busy street, because they might be hit by a car and killed, is that being “un-charitable"?

…Of course not.

The right advice, if it is true is never un-charitable because all truth comes from God.

However, how the advice is given may affect an individual’s response but everybody responds differently to different approaches. That does not make one style or approach better or more truthful than another, it just means that one approach in explaining the truth to someone may be more effective than another…given a particular situation.

Peace 🙂
 
Whoa!!! I’d be really careful about going to Canada just now, we Catholics aren’t real popular up there at the moment. Particularly if the subject of same sex marriage arises.
We Catholics aren’t popular anywhere…
 
Hello Marsha,

I agree and I think that for many, that “charitable” means, agreeing with them and as Catholics, we are to agree with the Pope and the Magisterium and by doing so; we are truly being “charitable” and… we are “agreeing” with the true teachings of Jesus Christ.

Sometimes, telling someone the truth may not seem very “charitable” to the person hearing the truth…and that’s unfortunate.

If I told a child not to run across a busy street, because they might be hit by a car and killed, is that being “un-charitable"?

…Of course not.

The right advice, if it is true is never un-charitable because all truth comes from God.

However, how the advice is given may affect an individual’s response but everybody responds differently to different approaches. That does not make one style or approach better or more truthful than another, it just means that one approach in explaining the truth to someone may be more effective than another…given a particular situation.

Peace 🙂
:amen:
 
The more and more I think about this topic, the less and less I think I know what the question in the OP is asking.

I’m an Orthodox Christian with some dear Catholic friends and I come from a Protestant family (see, we can get along!). In my interactions day-to-day, I know that there are some things that are part and parcel with the fullness of the Christian life, but I constantly have to check myself for Pharisee-ism when I seek preserve the faith God gave us.

It’s about balancing charity with truth, and personally, I would rather (try to) be loving than an argument winner with all the right theology. I’ve gone both routes and the former has called my heart back to Christ every time. The saints would agree: St. Isaac the Syrian was a Nestorian and he is venerated by Orthodox and Eastern Catholics alike because of his obvious holy wisdom and love for God.

To some, too much charity can be seen as a lack of the truth – can there be such a thing?

I understand that some people are turned off by sentimentality they see in areas like ecumenical relations – I can only take so much myself in other areas of life – but some can have an extreme reaction to this in the negative that can be harmful to soul, and, personally, very tiring.
 
The more and more I think about this topic, the less and less I think I know what the question in the OP is asking.

I’m an Orthodox Christian with some dear Catholic friends and I come from a Protestant family (see, we can get along!). In my interactions day-to-day, I know that there are some things that are part and parcel with the fullness of the Christian life, but I constantly have to check myself for Pharisee-ism when I seek preserve the faith God gave us.

It’s about balancing charity with truth, and personally, I would rather (try to) be loving than an argument winner with all the right theology. I’ve gone both routes and the former has called my heart back to Christ every time. The saints would agree: St. Isaac the Syrian was a Nestorian and he is venerated by Orthodox and Eastern Catholics alike because of his obvious holy wisdom and love for God.

To some, too much charity can be seen as a lack of the truth – can there be such a thing?

I understand that some people are turned off by sentimentality they see in areas like ecumenical relations – I can only take so much myself in other areas of life – but some can have an extreme reaction to this in the negative that can be harmful to soul, and, personally, very tiring.
Hello DoxRox, thank you for your post.
To some, too much charity can be seen as a lack of the truth – can there be such a thing?
Of course there is no such thing as, “too much charity”…I think the problem is with the different definitions of what is, “Christian charity”.

The “charity” that you describe does exist in Catholicism and it reminds me of something that Saint Benedict is attributed to saying, which is, “Preach the Gospel often and use words when necessary”.

In this environment, an internet forum, all we have is words and some are better with words than others are.

Some people like to use words to defend their Catholic faith and many of the Doctors of the Church have used many…many words to defend Catholicism… and to address heresies…

A Catholic Apologist is someone who uses words to defend and explain their Catholic faith.

I’m certain that there are some Catholics here at CAF, who would accuse Doctors of the Church, Saints and notable Catholic Apologists of being “un-charitable”, if they were to read posts of their quotes here, using an assumed identity.

If you don’t believe me, I could post some quotes here, as if they were mine and show you what I mean…Of course, if I were to do that, I would have to follow-up with a post listing the person who was actually quoted.

I have always been tempted to do that when ever someone had accused me or someone else here of being “uncharitable”, when what was written, is essentially the same thing that was said or written by an apologist or came from another credible Catholic source…

I have read some strong opinions on the main page here at Catholic Answers that would draw all sorts of criticism of people here, simply because the author might be considered to direct in their approach, but I don’t see comments here on the forums from Catholics, responding to what an apologist wrote on the home page.

Am I wrong?

Peace 🙂
 
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