Are there spiritual consequences for leaving Catholic Church?

[Merlin3626]

First of all, thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate the time that you guys have taken for this.

Second of all, I’m not offended by the fire and brimstone conclusions. It’s good that you’re honest.

But if I’m honest, I’m having a hard time believing all those “former” Catholics who are now Protestant, believing in Jesus and doing their best to live a virtuous life, are going to Hell, because that Catechism paragraph stresses that one enters the church through baptism and faith. If a Catholic goes rogue and ends up at a Protestant church, they still have their baptism, still have their faith in Christ. Granted they’re missing out on sacraments, but I didn’t see sacraments mentioned in that CCC quote.

In regard to Tridentine mass, yes, that’s available around here and in fact it’s where I went to today. I prefer it to everything but the Anglican Use parish. I’ll take King James English over Latin any day. But that parish is a bit of a hike for me.

And it’s an affirmative on the Screwtape letters. Great book, read it twice. While we’re on the subject, I re-read Surprised by Joy about a month ago. It was largely responsible for bringing me back from atheism however many years ago. As I re-read it, I knew exactly what he was talking about. But the way Lewis talks about God (I know, not Catholic), the way Chesterton does, Ronald Knox does, Newman does, Robert Benson does, it’s missing from the modern Catholic Church, and I lament that.

I think I’m going to take the advice offered by most of you and dial it back for a bit, focus on the bare basics. Bare minimum as per the precepts of the church isn’t really a burden. Might give me some breathing room, which is what I think I need and I miss.

 

[tafan]

First of all, thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate the time that you guys have taken for this.

Second of all, I’m not offended by the fire and brimstone conclusions. It’s good that you’re honest.

But if I’m honest, I’m having a hard time believing all those “former” Catholics who are now Protestant, believing in Jesus and doing their best to live a virtuous life, are going to Hell, because that Catechism paragraph stresses that one enters the church through baptism and faith. If a Catholic goes rogue and ends up at a Protestant church, they still have their baptism, still have their faith in Christ. Granted they’re missing out on sacraments, but I didn’t see sacraments mentioned in that CCC quote.
.

Well, there is likely a big difference between all those "former Catholics you described and yourself. You have stated that you don’t disagree with anything the Church teaches or deny its authority. I doubt if most of the “former” Catholics who are not protestant know “that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ”. You apparently do know this.

“Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” likely pertains to you much more than to them.

 

[thistle]

Scaring people is the old way of doing this thistle. It simply doesn’t work on most people, and it doesn’t really work very well on converts either.

You obviously did not read the OP’s question. He asked if he could walk away and if he did he asked what the consequences would be!
I answered his question.

 

[MariaG]

I think I’m going to take the advice offered by most of you and dial it back for a bit, focus on the bare basics. Bare minimum as per the precepts of the church isn’t really a burden. Might give me some breathing room, which is what I think I need and I miss.

I am happy to hear that. I know I and others will pray for you

 

[bscastro]

Perhaps you are having your very own dark night of the soul.

Best wishes for you!!

I was thinking the same thing!

Merlin, I’m praying for you. Take your time and don’t make any rash decisions to leave the Church!

God bless,
Bryan

 

[constantconvert]

But if I’m honest, I’m having a hard time believing all those “former” Catholics who are now Protestant, believing in Jesus and doing their best to live a virtuous life, are going to Hell, because that Catechism paragraph stresses that one enters the church through baptism and faith. If a Catholic goes rogue and ends up at a Protestant church, they still have their baptism, still have their faith in Christ. Granted they’re missing out on sacraments, but I didn’t see sacraments mentioned in that CCC quote.

I don’t know that they are going to hell.

846 …Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Most former Catholics are poorly catechized about the Catholic faith. It’s perfectly possible for a Catholic-turned-Protestant not to realize that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation. So most of them are in the same boat as other Protestants, on their way to heaven without the sacraments.

I’m glad to know you’ve decided on a plan of action. Please let us know how it goes.

 

[maltmom]

And it’s an affirmative on the Screwtape letters. Great book, read it twice. While we’re on the subject, I re-read Surprised by Joy about a month ago. It was largely responsible for bringing me back from atheism however many years ago. As I re-read it, I knew exactly what he was talking about. But the way Lewis talks about God (I know, not Catholic), the way Chesterton does, Ronald Knox does, Newman does, Robert Benson does, it’s missing from the modern Catholic Church, and I lament that.

I think I’m going to take the advice offered by most of you and dial it back for a bit, focus on the bare basics. Bare minimum as per the precepts of the church isn’t really a burden. Might give me some breathing room, which is what I think I need and I miss.

My prayers have been answered. I will continue to pray for you. I’m so thankful you are not giving up. Please keep in touch with us.

I’m reading the Screwtape Letters now. When I got to page 43 (on the nook) I thought of you and was going to mention it to you. Looks like someone beat me to it.

 

[mlz]

I don’t have an answer to that exactly, but… I would like to go back to the way it was. I felt a lot closer to God before I entered the Catholic Church.

I was brought up nominally Protestant, with no real formation so to speak, ended up an adult atheist. After a born again type of experience that happened outside of any church setting, I ended up regularly attending a quiet little Anglican church which in some ways was very Catholic actually, but still, in other ways had that New England Protestant quality that’s hard to describe, but very nice. I was settled into something like CS Lewis’ “mere Christianity” and quite happy, and day by day was becoming closer to God and less sinful and more happy.

Eventually it became clear that the Anglican community had it wrong on certain issues, and as I learned more and more about the RCC, intellectually I didn’t see any other choice but to convert. My heart seemed in it, too.

But I hate going Mass, confession feels like a bad therapy session, and I don’t for the life of me understand what’s appealing about fellowship. I’m frustrated by having to explain to cradle Catholics of all people why a woman can’t be a priest, and speaking of priests, of all I’ve talked to, not one has the clear, practical spiritual advice I expected Catholic priests to possess (I blame Chesterton for the expectation).

All of it has really been wearing me down over the past year in particular. I’m just tired, that’s all. I’d like to return to sneaking into the back a small church when I feel like I need a Sunday service, not because I’ll have to go to confession for mortal sin if I don’t. I’d like to be able to take off this brown scapular without worrying that I’m somehow thumbing my nose at Marian devotion and thereby increasing the likelihood of my heading south for eternity. I’d like to go one week without hearing about the Catechism, CYO, or Cursillo, one week without novenas, extra rosary intentions and worrying about how many dying souls will have to suffer longer because I didn’t feel like praying a Chaplet of Divine Mercy this Friday. I’d like to go one Sunday without having to pretend like I’m in deep prayer after communion when the fact of the matter is that although I acknowledge the divine truth of the Holy Eucharist, my heart’s never moved after receiving.

I hope that helps explain things.

Oh my, you have a lot more going on than Catholicism being wrong. Really, you sound very negative. Sounds like the evil one is whispering lies onto your head. Though this is very “Catholic” please go to Adoration and ask the Lord to help you understand what the problem is and help you out of this “pit” and into His Light!

My prayers,
mlz
( former Protestant)

 

[Veronica97]

Merlin,
I am sorry you are going through this. I am a convert also and there have been times when I have looked back wistfully upon my childhood experiences with Protestant Churches. Those experiences taught me about God and helped prepare me for future entry into the fullness of Truth. They were good experiences–warm and simple. But you know what? If I were to go back, it wouldn’t be the same. As someone said you can’t go home again because you ARE home. Now that I know the Truth, there would be much lacking for me in a Protestant Church. To those whom much has been given, much is expected. Please don’t leave the fullness of Truth. But I would, as others have suggested, simplify your life. Read God’s word everyday, attend Mass on Sunday, and perhaps just go into the church whenever you can and sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament and just “be”. Talk to Jesus. Ask Him to help you. Just place all of your cares on Him. He knows your heart and He knows what you need…trust Him to give you what you need. This is your test…God sometimes takes away consolation to see if we will still love Him and follow Him…I pray you will pass the test.

 

[benjohnson]

You may find this odd, but as a Lutheran, I encourage you to stay in your Catholic church, as I think you’d be trading in one set of disappointments for another and you have a tremendous opportunity to find what you need in the Catholic church. And even if you did switch to a Protestant church, the idea of “No salvation outside the Catholic Church” could cause you a lot of worry. And it should - you can’t take vows lightly in the face of God.

The size of most Catholic parishes can be daunting - maybe find a smaller parish. Or chose a less-atended mass and sit toward the front next to that 80 year old lady, then spend some time in a soup-kitchen or a group bible study - anything when you can get connected fellow people. Though people, you’ll find Jesus in his ‘distressing disguise.’

I think you’re missing that ‘home’ feeling you get in those small mainline-protastant churches - but I think you can find ‘home’ in the people around you, it just may take a bit more time and effort.

Good luck!

 

[CleverUserName]

You mentioned that you are a fan of C. S. Lewis. There’s a section in The Screwtape Letters where the devil is given instructions on what to do to the man when he converts - make the priest seem foolish and incompetent; make the music be off-key; make the other parishioners seem ever so slightly daffy, if not downright scoundrels; etc. - your case sounds so similar to the illustration given, that I can’t help but think that the evil one is behind all this. You might find that rereading the story will help to arm you against other treachery that the devil may have in store for you, as well.

Precisely!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

I once heard it said that if you don’t feel as close to God as you did, guess who moved?

Did you expect that all would be rosy and warm fuzzies? When has an authentic Christian life ever been like that? I can’t think of a single one.

There is no formal way of leaving, we don’t play that.

I would remind you of St. Peter’s words to Our Lord in John 6: [69] And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. [70] And we have believed and have known, that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.

If the Holy Spirit led you into the our most holy faith, then who do you suppose is now seeking to lead you out?

If you don’t “feel” so good, what has that to do with the spiritual reality? Nothing…that’s what.

   **Do Not Depend on Feelings
  **              
  The promise of God's Word, the Bible - not our feelings - is  our authority. The Christian lives by faith (trust) in the  trustworthiness of God Himself and His Word. This train diagram  illustrates the relationship among **fact** (God and His Word), **faith** (our trust in God and His Word), and **feeling** (the result of our faith and obedience) ([John 14:21](http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?john+14:21)).

http://www.campuscrusade.com/images/train.gif The train will run with or without a caboose. However, it would be useless to attempt to pull the train by the caboose. In the same way, as Christians we do not depend on feelings or emotions, but we place our faith (trust) in the trustworthiness of God and the promises of His Word.

 

[Merlin3626]

“Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” likely pertains to you much more than to them.

In order to refuse to remain in the church, wouldn’t one have to refute the faith (e.g. discarding the idea of Christ’s divinity) and/or formally renounce their baptism (as I’ve seen some atheists do)? That is, if entering the church is defined by faith and baptism as per the CCC paragraph we keep bringing up.

The thing is, I’ll take at face value whatever the Church puts forth on this idea, but the only official comment I’ve seen is that CCC paragraph, and that’s broad enough to be interpreted at least two different ways, as proven by these posts.

Does anyone know of a maybe a papal document that goes into more detail? I’ll go looking for one myself as well…

And correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Protestants who become Catholic seen as entering into* full communion* with the RCC? That would imply that beforehand, they’re not completely out of communion or outside the faith, but rather they just don’t experience the fullness of the faith. Therefore, couldn’t a Catholic decide to experience less than the fullness of the faith, without severing oneself from salvation?

 

[Mineral_Blue]

I don’t have an answer to that exactly, but… I would like to go back to the way it was. I felt a lot closer to God before I entered the Catholic Church.

I was brought up nominally Protestant, with no real formation so to speak, ended up an adult atheist. After a born again type of experience that happened outside of any church setting, I ended up regularly attending a quiet little Anglican church which in some ways was very Catholic actually, but still, in other ways had that New England Protestant quality that’s hard to describe, but very nice. I was settled into something like CS Lewis’ “mere Christianity” and quite happy, and day by day was becoming closer to God and less sinful and more happy.

Eventually it became clear that the Anglican community had it wrong on certain issues, and as I learned more and more about the RCC, intellectually I didn’t see any other choice but to convert. My heart seemed in it, too.

But I hate going Mass, confession feels like a bad therapy session, and I don’t for the life of me understand what’s appealing about fellowship. I’m frustrated by having to explain to cradle Catholics of all people why a woman can’t be a priest, and speaking of priests, of all I’ve talked to, not one has the clear, practical spiritual advice I expected Catholic priests to possess (I blame Chesterton for the expectation).

All of it has really been wearing me down over the past year in particular. I’m just tired, that’s all. I’d like to return to sneaking into the back a small church when I feel like I need a Sunday service, not because I’ll have to go to confession for mortal sin if I don’t. I’d like to be able to take off this brown scapular without worrying that I’m somehow thumbing my nose at Marian devotion and thereby increasing the likelihood of my heading south for eternity. I’d like to go one week without hearing about the Catechism, CYO, or Cursillo, one week without novenas, extra rosary intentions and worrying about how many dying souls will have to suffer longer because I didn’t feel like praying a Chaplet of Divine Mercy this Friday. I’d like to go one Sunday without having to pretend like I’m in deep prayer after communion when the fact of the matter is that although I acknowledge the divine truth of the Holy Eucharist, my heart’s never moved after receiving.

I hope that helps explain things.

Dear Merlin,

I understand, utterly, where you are coming from in your thinking/feelings as a Catholic at present. I am a lifelong “cradle” Catholic, and have personally felt everything you describe.

I am so sorry that you are experiencing such torment of difficulty. Catholic teaching tells us that, the CLOSER we come to God, the more difficult we may find our path to be. Did you know that Mother Teresa faithfully stood by Jesus Christ and His Church (where you now stand) for 40 years, after those first lovely consoling experience(s) that she had been given, faded out and she really felt NOTHING? Nothing at Mass, nothing in prayer. Often, the experience of “dryness” is a sign that God now trusts YOU. You are being asked to hang in there, with TRUST. I have felt this, as have many, many others. You may be closer to God RIGHT NOW than you could ever imagine, Merlin. I believe He is asking you for your TRUST.

We cannot see or know where God will take us, when we do choose to trust. Many times, I have trusted despite the pain & frustration you describe, and have been taken more profoundly, and joyfully, into a “real time” awareness of God. THIS is when the Eucharist is crucial: Christ reveals Himself to those who Believe & Trust, even though there seems no reason to do so.

Merlin, please take your time in considering leaving. Christ prayed “that they be One” because He knew that the Way of the Cross, His Way, is incredibly difficult. Please do not become angry & revolt - turn to us, here. We are walking this journey with You.

I can see that you have a hefty dose, now, of a noxious poison that is popularly called “Catholic Guilt”. This is a painful & difficult problem that many go through, myself included. THERE IS HELP. I can assist you with this if you write to me. It takes time for a new Catholic to really know, see, and FEEL what is essential, from Christ & His Church. It takes work to untangle the absolute non-negotiables from the many many CHOICES that we, as Catholics CAN make. You have taken on too much, in an effort, I am sure, to become closer to God.

All one needs is an earnest heart, listening for Christ as best one can. Just showing up at Mass & simply LISTENING, doing spiritual reading, considering the 10 Commandments and one’s behavior, confessing to a priest anything that YOU feel burdened by, and being Loving, will get you to a place of Peace with us, in the Church.

Don’t worry so much about going to Hell if you stay! Our Church, founded by Christ, strives to live the IDEAL that Christ gave us. This is the ‘why’ of ‘Catholic guilt’ - none of us are able to reach this IDEAL. But please don’t let that gap cause you unrest, or to flee. There is too much richness and peace that you would miss.

Sending you loving best wishes,

Catherine

 

[Jim_Dandy]

In order to refuse to remain in the church, wouldn’t one have to refute the faith (e.g. discarding the idea of Christ’s divinity) and/or formally renounce their baptism (as I’ve seen some atheists do)? That is, if entering the church is defined by faith and baptism as per the CCC paragraph we keep bringing up.

The thing is, I’ll take at face value whatever the Church puts forth on this idea, but the only official comment I’ve seen is that CCC paragraph, and that’s broad enough to be interpreted at least two different ways, as proven by these posts.

Does anyone know of a maybe a papal document that goes into more detail? I’ll go looking for one myself as well…

And correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Protestants who become Catholic seen as entering into* full communion* with the RCC? That would imply that beforehand, they’re not completely out of communion or outside the faith, but rather they just don’t experience the fullness of the faith. Therefore, couldn’t a Catholic decide to experience less than the fullness of the faith, without severing oneself from salvation?

In “The Unity of the Catholic Church,” St. Cyprian writes, "If he deserts the chair of Peter, upon which the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? . . . Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress is separated from the promises of the Church; nor will he that forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ . . . He cannot have God for his Father who does not have the Church for his mother (A.D. 251). [emphasis added]

You seem to be looking for some way you can leave the Church with impunity. Leave if you want to and face the consequences, but the Church’s teaching is clear, and it has been taught since the Apostles walked the earth.

Anyone who tells you that Catholics who have left the Church and become Protestant are still in God’s grace is speculating. God will be their judge, if they don’t repent and return home to the Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world.

Cathollicism is God-made. Every Protestant ecclesial community is man-made. Take your choice. Catholicism is not based on feelings, but is the Truth.

The Bible Protestants use is incomplete and was purloined from the Catholic Church. The Church selected 27 of her own writings and named them the New Testament when she compiled the Bible at the end of the fourth century. What you get in every Protestant ecclesial community is misinterpretation of the Church’s own book.

While the Church recognizes that Protestant ecclesial communities (may) have some of the truth, not one of the thousands of them have all of it. That’s what is meant by “the fullness of Truth.”

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[mlz]

I am a recent convert as well…one of the things my RCIA teachers stressed so much was to PRAY in these times of distress. Just from the sound of your posts, my advice to you would be to start praying; not pre-written prayer, but spontaneous prayer that is a conversation between you and God.
Adoration has helped me more than ever…actually committing to the same hour every week with Our Lord is doing wonders for my faith. Whenever I have doubts or dark times, my soul is lifted up when I am with Him. Why dont you try to do the same? You won’t find the eucharist anywhere else but this Church…

I too am a new convert and find Adoration extremely healing. I highly recommend this.

mlz

 

[tafan]

In order to refuse to remain in the church, wouldn’t one have to refute the faith (e.g. discarding the idea of Christ’s divinity) and/or formally renounce their baptism (as I’ve seen some atheists do)? That is, if entering the church is defined by faith and baptism as per the CCC paragraph we keep bringing up.

The thing is, I’ll take at face value whatever the Church puts forth on this idea, but the only official comment I’ve seen is that CCC paragraph, and that’s broad enough to be interpreted at least two different ways, as proven by these posts.

Does anyone know of a maybe a papal document that goes into more detail? I’ll go looking for one myself as well…

And correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Protestants who become Catholic seen as entering into* full communion* with the RCC? That would imply that beforehand, they’re not completely out of communion or outside the faith, but rather they just don’t experience the fullness of the faith. Therefore, couldn’t a Catholic decide to experience less than the fullness of the faith, without severing oneself from salvation?

Well, I will do a little research on the Papal documents in a bit, but my point is that you know what the Church teaches. So you know that it is a mortal sin to miss mass on a Sunday, you know that it is a precept of the Church to go to confession once a year and receive communion at least during Easter. You know that the Church teaches the eucharist is the center and summit of all Christian life.

So if you leave the Catholic Church (by forgoing on the required practices) you would certainly be meeting the three conditions for a mortal sin: grave matter (eg not going to mass on Sunday), knowledge that it is grave matter, and willingly choosing to do so.

If will just snowball downhill from there,IMO.

Ther protestants who convert and are just entering into full communion are likely already baptized Christians. But they do not have the knowledge you do, so they are not sinning.

 

[pablope]

Long story short I’m a convert of a few short years, and with each passing year I become more miserable in relation to Catholicism. This past year and half has been particularly rough spiritually (everything else in life has been fine), and now I’m seriously considering leaving.

The thing is, I can’t find anywhere what the Church’s teaching is about formally leaving. Keep in mind, I don’t disagree with anything it teaches, so it’s not a matter of heresy, and I’m not denying Church authority, so it’s not schism. I can’t remember as I type what the CCC said about apostasy, but I do remember that I didn’t fit that category for some reason either, although I think it had to with the fact that I’d still remain Christian.

So what’s the official line? Because I am afraid of the possibility of ending up in Hell.

Just ponder on this passage:

1 Samuel 15:22-23

22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I don’t have an answer to that exactly, but… I would like to go back to the way it was. I felt a lot closer to God before I entered the Catholic Church.

I was brought up nominally Protestant, with no real formation so to speak, ended up an adult atheist. After a born again type of experience that happened outside of any church setting, I ended up regularly attending a quiet little Anglican church which in some ways was very Catholic actually, but still, in other ways had that New England Protestant quality that’s hard to describe, but very nice. I was settled into something like CS Lewis’ “mere Christianity” and quite happy, and day by day was becoming closer to God and less sinful and more happy.

Eventually it became clear that the Anglican community had it wrong on certain issues, and as I learned more and more about the RCC, intellectually I didn’t see any other choice but to convert. My heart seemed in it, too.

But I hate going Mass, confession feels like a bad therapy session, and I don’t for the life of me understand what’s appealing about fellowship. I’m frustrated by having to explain to cradle Catholics of all people why a woman can’t be a priest, and speaking of priests, of all I’ve talked to, not one has the clear, practical spiritual advice I expected Catholic priests to possess (I blame Chesterton for the expectation).

All of it has really been wearing me down over the past year in particular. I’m just tired, that’s all. I’d like to return to sneaking into the back a small church when I feel like I need a Sunday service, not because I’ll have to go to confession for mortal sin if I don’t. I’d like to be able to take off this brown scapular without worrying that I’m somehow thumbing my nose at Marian devotion and thereby increasing the likelihood of my heading south for eternity. I’d like to go one week without hearing about the Catechism, CYO, or Cursillo, one week without novenas, extra rosary intentions and worrying about how many dying souls will have to suffer longer because I didn’t feel like praying a Chaplet of Divine Mercy this Friday. I’d like to go one Sunday without having to pretend like I’m in deep prayer after communion when the fact of the matter is that although I acknowledge the divine truth of the Holy Eucharist, my heart’s never moved after receiving.

I hope that helps explain things.

Maybe you should attend a Cathedral if you aren’t already. Best Church experience I ever had.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Oh, and yes there are. Please don’t leave.