Are there spiritual consequences for leaving Catholic Church?

[jmcrae]

Well, during a Lecture at the Vatican in 1999 Pope John Paul stated that there is no such thing as Hell.

No he didn’t - what he said was that the popular cartoon version of Hell (guys in red suits with pitchforks) does not exist. Hell is very real - it is the absence of a relationship with God. It is utter loneliness and despair. You would wish for a guy in a red suit with a pitchfork, just for the company.

 

[jmcrae]

Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests.

They are letting Judas take them away from Jesus.

 

[Porknpie]

**“About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else’s recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.”

“Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests.”
**

Merlin - One wonderful about being Catholic is that we are the true bible believers (we set the canon) especially so when Jesus himself is speaking. He told us to believe in him but also to “keep the commandments” in order to be saved. When we fail, he gave us reconciliation to make our souls clean. He gave us the Eucharist saying “my flesh is real food, my blood real drink.”. We can receive him every day if we desire. And, we believe him when he gave us his Church, founded on Peter and passed on directly to todays Bishops and Priests. A church that has the power to bind and loosen mans sin, “who’s sins you forgive are forgiven, who’s sins you retain are retained.”

I know of no Catholic who would want to turn away from the church that Christ founded using his own words. I would also be aware of Christ’s words :

“Beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing” and that these wolves will be “speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them.”

Merlin, I would stay right where you are at, in the very church founded by Jesus himself. Be aware of the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing that know the Gospel not. :kissme:

 

[feed_me]

**“About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else’s recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.”

“Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests.”
**

Merlin - One wonderful about being Catholic is that we are the true bible believers (we set the canon) especially so when Jesus himself is speaking. He told us to believe in him but also to “keep the commandments” in order to be saved. When we fail, he gave us reconciliation to make our souls clean. He gave us the Eucharist saying “my flesh is real food, my blood real drink.”. We can receive him every day if we desire. And, we believe him when he gave us his Church, founded on Peter and passed on directly to todays Bishops and Priests. A church that has the power to bind and loosen mans sin, “who’s sins you forgive are forgiven, who’s sins you retain are retained.”

I know of no Catholic who would want to turn away from the church that Christ founded using his own words. I would also be aware of Christ’s words :

“Beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing” and that these wolves will be “speaking perverse things to draw disciples after them.”

Merlin, I would stay right where you are at, in the very church founded by Jesus himself. Be aware of the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing that know the Gospel not. :kissme:

Can’t really say that can you? I know of a great bunch of protestants that know the gospel and very well I might add. I mean if somebody leaves the Catholic Church to other denominations like Methodist, Baptists, they really aren’t going apostate, just being with other Christians in Christ. It’s when you leave Chistianity and believe no more and turn on Christ you appostate.

 

[jmcrae]

But full knowledge at the time is needed for the validity of both marriage and mortal sin. So why not conversion?

I don’t know the answer to that, but if it were me making the rules, instead of making it possible for people to “unconvert” in order to equalize it, I’d equalize it by making marriage permanent, with no option to annul it.

Luckily, or rather, by God’s infinite grace, the Church isn’t listening to either of us.

Yes… it was about a year and half between making the decision and the Easter Vigil I was confirmed at. Plenty of time for reflection, but as I said, I was unaware of this no going back clause.

That’s why it’s a year and a half, or two years, instead of six weeks like in other churches.

As for adoration, when I can find a chapel that doesn’t have the half the parish using it as a shortcut to the sidewalk, or one that hasn’t been commandeered by Ladies Idle Chatting Association, I’ll be happy to go again (I used to go twice a week for about a year and a half).

I hear you. I prefer total silence, as well. I don’t bother with Adoration any more, because around here it seems to have been hijacked for every political cause under the sun - not that I object to praying for causes, but at the same time, I want my peace and quiet.

Nowadays I just find an empty Church and sit in front of the Tabernacle for 10-15 minutes, when I get the chance.

No, I have no problem with any Church doctrine or dogma; it all makes perfect sense once you start examining it. Struggles with sin are there but pretty run-of-the-mill.

Start with that, then. That’s a good thing.

About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else’s recommendations as well.

Wow, that’s a lot to take on - even someone who has been Catholic for years would find such a regimen to be very stressful.

But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

Do yourself a favour - pick one devotion and stick to that. Daily Mass, or daily Rosary, or the Little Office - but not everything all at once.

And there is nothing wrong with taking time for quiet in the mornings and in the rain. That’s actually a very Catholic thing to do.

 

[CMatt25]

Such a thing could not happen overnight. At some point, a deliberate decision would have to be made, while in the full knowledge that it was a bad idea.

Also, we have a duty to inform ourselves of the truth. I would hate to be there when someone goes to the Judgement Day and says, 'I didn’t know" who lived in the Internet age, and was a subscriber to Catholic Answers. God knows the heart, and knows even those things that people hide from themselves.

But it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea to them if their beliefs changed as to what they believed they knew to be the “truth”. In any case I’m not sure someone should necessarily depend on the internet to get all the “answers”. God does know the heart though. On that we agree. Thanks for taking the time to respond. God bless you on your journey. Peace.

 

[constantconvert]

About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else’s recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

The only time I feel close is during the quiet moments throughout the day when I just talk to Him, or when I hear certain music, or see certain pictures, or go for a morning walk, or stand in the middle of the yard for 5 minutes while I wait for the dog to do what she has to do while the sun shines and the birds chirp, or, conversely, when it’s a gray, rainy day and I sit down to read some Keats while the rain beats against the window pane.

Those are the times I feel near to the Lord, and none of them have a darn thing to do with attending mass or half of the other things the Church asks me to do. So my heart is one place, but my head is planted firmly in the RCC. It’s a contradiction I wasn’t planning on.

My goodness, no wonder you’re burnt out. I’m glad you’ve decided to dial it back a bit. As for the times that you feel close to the Lord, great! Praise God! I’m glad that there are times when you feel close to Him. Revel in those times and let them feed you. If the times you’re “supposed” to feel close to God (ie, Mass, Reconciliation, saying the Rosary, etc.), you can’t feel Him at all, well, that’s unfortunate, but it could be a hundred different variables other than “being Catholic.” Hang in there.

 

[mlz]

Dear.Brother in Christ
I am almost certain the evil one is causing this “dissatisfication”. When I came into the church I was bombarded with things I’d never had come my way and a very holy priest told me he wasn’t surprised, nor should I be as the evil one will try any tactic he can to pull me away. Trust what you were drawn to by coming in, it WAS the Holy Spirit!!
I’m so sorry about you bad Adoration experience as mine is so very powerful.

I will pray for you,
Mlz

 

[Blue_Horizon]

…but as I said, I was unaware of this no going back clause.

…instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

The only time I feel close is during the quiet moments throughout the day when I just talk to Him, or when I hear certain music, or see certain pictures, or go for a morning walk, or stand in the middle of the yard for 5 minutes while I wait for the dog to do what she has to do while the sun shines and the birds chirp, or, conversely, when it’s a gray, rainy day and I sit down to read some Keats while the rain beats against the window pane.

Those are the times I feel near to the Lord, and none of them have a darn thing to do with attending mass or half of the other things the Church asks me to do. So my heart is one place, but my head is planted firmly in the RCC. It’s a contradiction I wasn’t planning on.

Merlin
Why did you join the RCC? That must have been a big decision.

If you felt your conversion was made on limited information and you are sinking spiritually (i.e. you are becoming less virtuous, your faith is weakening, your love for God is lessening, you cannot forgive people as you were want to do before) then why agonise? The answer is clear cut. You made a mistake, you succumbed to an infatuation. Go back to where you were already “bearing fruit” before and realise this was probably the best place for you afterall.

My only caveat would be … are your criteria for judging “success” correct? You seem to be more concerned about “finding peace”, being “happy” rather than “bearing fruit that will last.” The two are not the same and you may have come to a point in your life where you are beginning to realise that. “Dark night of the soul” as many have already observed. You ignore this possibility from what I can see.

If this is the case then the places you used to find “happiness” no longer exist regardless of what you externally decide (they are rather a “running away”). If this is so then the path forward across no-mans-land to a new type of “happiness” is that dark journey within which requires passivity (i.e. a letting go of your definitions of what God should be giving you) and patience and waiting on God to bring you to a new light.

Only you can decide between these two choices…anything outside of these two choices, as you intuit, starts to look a little like whining and prevarication .

 

[collette124]

They are letting Judas take them away from Jesus.

No, some Catholics feel disgusted by the behaviour of Paedophile Priests and some feel that the Vatican has protected Paedophile Priests.

 

[zz912]

Can’t really say that can you? I know of a great bunch of protestants that know the gospel and very well I might add. I mean if somebody leaves the Catholic Church to other denominations like Methodist, Baptists, they really aren’t going apostate, just being with other Christians in Christ. It’s when you leave Chistianity and believe no more and turn on Christ you appostate.

Is this an infallible statement?

 

[zz912]

If you felt your conversion was made on limited information and you are sinking spiritually (i.e. you are becoming less virtuous, your faith is weakening, your love for God is lessening, you cannot forgive people as you were want to do before) then why agonise? The answer is clear cut. You made a mistake, you succumbed to an infatuation. Go back to where you were already “bearing fruit” before and realise this was probably the best place for you afterall.

this is just awful advice.

It sounds more like he jumped into the deep water with both feet, and is feeling a little overwhelmed and burned out. He has no argument against the doctrines and teachings. I would suggest dialing it back a bit, spending more time in quiet, and take it a bit slower. I think he just got going too quickly and needs to ramp it down again.

 

[hazcompat]

Research evangelical perfection.

peace

 

[Bookcat]

But I hate going Mass, confession feels like a bad therapy session, and I don’t for the life of me understand what’s appealing about fellowship. I’m frustrated by having to explain to cradle Catholics of all people why a woman can’t be a priest, and speaking of priests, of all I’ve talked to, not one has the clear, practical spiritual advice I expected Catholic priests to possess (I blame Chesterton for the expectation).

All of it has really been wearing me down over the past year in particular. I’m just tired, that’s all. I’d like to return to sneaking into the back a small church when I feel like I need a Sunday service, not because I’ll have to go to confession for mortal sin if I don’t. I’d like to be able to take off this brown scapular without worrying that I’m somehow thumbing my nose at Marian devotion and thereby increasing the likelihood of my heading south for eternity. I’d like to go one week without hearing about the Catechism, CYO, or Cursillo, one week without novenas, extra rosary intentions and worrying about how many dying souls will have to suffer longer because I didn’t feel like praying a Chaplet of Divine Mercy this Friday…

Some things are …not things one needs “worry” about or be “involved with” necessarily. Your mixing up what essentials with things that are good but not essential or necessary in some cases of what you mention above.

As for the Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance --these are of the essential – and perhaps more reading etc will be of help. When I became Catholic --these where two of the most wonderful aspects of being received into full communion with the Church that Jesus founded.

Here is a wonderful document to read:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html#The_eucharistic_form_of_the_christian_life

then the whole when you get time.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

 

[Bookcat]

“At the beginning of the fourth century, Christian worship was still forbidden by the imperial authorities. Some Christians in North Africa, who felt bound to celebrate the Lord’s Day, defied the prohibition. They were martyred after declaring that it was not possible for them to live without the Eucharist, the food of the Lord: sine dominico non possumus. May these martyrs of Abitinae, in union with all those saints and beati who made the Eucharist the centre of their lives, intercede for us and teach us to be faithful to our encounter with the risen Christ. We too cannot live without partaking of the sacrament of our salvation; we too desire to be iuxta dominicam viventes, to reflect in our lives what we celebrate on the Lord’s Day.”

–Pope Benedict XVI (in the above doc)

 

[hazcompat]

try this…

jesuits.ca/orientations/understanding.html

peace

 

[ejp123]

In my opinion, just because you feel compelled to leave the catholic institution does not mean you are leaving Jesus. Your relationship with Jesus and the Trinty is what matters most. If you are maintaining your faith in the Trinity you are still part of the Church, perhaps in a more pure sense. Jesus is a Person! not a book, not doctrine, not a law, commandment or a sacrament. HE is a TRUE LIVING BEING, SON OF THE TRUE LIVING GOD to be interacted with. How you do it and where, who cares. Just do it and maintain it.

 

[steve_b]

In my opinion, just because you feel compelled to leave the catholic institution does not mean you are leaving Jesus. Your relationship with Jesus and the Trinty is what matters most. If you are maintaining your faith in the Trinity you are still part of the Church, perhaps in a more pure sense. Jesus is a Person! not a book, not doctrine, not a law, commandment or a sacrament. HE is a TRUE LIVING BEING, SON OF THE TRUE LIVING GOD to be interacted with. How you do it and where, who cares. Just do it and maintain it.

Division is condemned in scripture. When Jesus says He wants unity the same oneness He and His Father are, then division can’t be done. As Paul said, people who divide, or cause division, do evil, and aren’t serving Our Lord but their own selfish appetites. [Rom 16:17-20]

 

[Michael_Francis]

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