Are there spiritual consequences for leaving Catholic Church?

[Jerry-Jet]

Anyone who is part of the true faith–knows the true faith–leaves the true faith–and is unrepentent for leaving the true faith all the way til their death winds up going to Hell!

There are consequences for leaving the true church of Jesus Christ.

Jesus will judge.

 

[SPH1]

You would be trading the truths of the Holy Catholic Church for your own, personal view and your “feelings”.

A New Age pagan can “feel” close to God by sitting on a rock in the desert, thinking spiritual thoughts. Feelings are unreliable.

And I also believe you would be in jeopardy. You would be denying Christ’s Church, which is to then deny Christ.

 

[steve_b]

That’s exactly it. Truly, i could not have said it better myself. Thanks for the rest of the post, too… It was helpful.

But one thing I’m still unclear on is this: CCC 846
the Church… is necessary for salvation… He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

CCC seems clear that salvation is dependent on baptism and faith. Well I can’t undo my baptism (nor do I want to) and I still have faith (albeit imperfectly, obviously). So couldn’t I leave the Catholic Church without leaving the Christian faith and still be okay in God’s eyes? (with the contingency, of course, on doing my best to live virtuously and without sin… I’m not looking for excuses to live an immoral life. I have no interest in that)

Merlin,

Here’s why it is not okay. I’ll let Jesus, Paul, & John, do the talking. I’ll just step aside

(all emphasis mine)

[Rom 16:17-20]
17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions (διχοστασία dichostasia division/sedition) and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil. 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

[Gal 5:19-21]
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, (διχοστασία dichostasia division/sedition) factions (αἵρεσις hairesis heresies/sects) 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that* those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.*

Q: If one will not inherit the kingdom of God, for not correcting those sins, where will they go?

Here’s something else to consider. You’ve been given knowlege of the truth. Here’s what happens if one then deliberately misses mass on the (Day), Sunday

Heb 10: (all emphasis mine)
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins*,* 27* but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28* A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29* How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

based on that, one might ask

By deliberately failing to meet on Sunday (the Day) as is the habit of some

• why is deliberately failing to meet on Sunday, already considered a grave sin worthy of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries
• why is there no sacrifice for sins as a result of deliberately failing to meet.
• why is ther a profaning of the blood of the covenant for deliberately failing to meet
• why does it spurn the son of God and outrage the spirit of grace

Seems awefully harsh for not meeting…right? To answer that, look at all those terms spoken of there, and ask yourself the following questions regarding what they were doing when they met.

1. • What is the sacrifice for sin and blood of the covenant ? It’s the Eucharist. The summit of our faith. ***Matthew 26:28 ***This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. That’s what Jesus said in instituting the Eucharist
   • How does one*** spurn*** Jesus the*** son of God*** and outrage the spirit of grace?
   Jn 6:53* unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,* you have no life in you*. 54* Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
   
   Life of the soul is grace.
   
   Therefore, the one who deliberately misses the Eucharist on Sunday, after being given the knowledge of truth,
   • no sacrifice for sin is left for THEM
   • they profane the blood of the covenant
   • they spurn the son of God & outrage the spirit of grace
   • judgment awaits them
   That’s how important the Eucharist is. That’s how important mass is. So by definition, to deliberately miss it on Sunday and other days of obligation, describes a mortal sin, which is gravely serious for the soul.
   
   Therefore, going back to where you were , as you can see, has serious consequences.
   
   Prayers ascending for you
   

 

[Porknpie]

You would be in serious jeopardy of hell.

Since you know that Christ is the Church, when you walk away from the Church, you walk away from Christ. Walk away from Christ, go to hell.

Merlin, you should be talking to your priest.

 

[Merlin3626]

Merlin, you should be talking to your priest.

I plan on doing that. But, and I say this with all due respect to priests, normally if I want a clear, concise answer, the last place I’d go is to a priest. I’ve done my fair share of inquiring on other subjects, and once, regarding the same subject, I received 4 very different points of view. I mean very different…

Still, you’re right. And I will do it.

 

[Merlin3626]

Something hit me earlier today…

I did not know, and was never told, that when you entered the Church, you were in for life and to leave would mean the consequences described throughout this thread. It wasn’t until after I was received that I heard a priest say, “once Catholic, always Catholic” and even then, I didn’t take that with all the weight and extra meaning it apparently has.

Point being, I was granted annulment by the Church because it was decided that my ex and I lacked full knowledge/consent going into the marriage, and if you don’t have full consent etc, then it can’t be a marriage (same for mortal sin).

It could be argued that I didn’t have full knowledge or full consent going into the faith… Not saying I will bring that up formally, because after all, I’m taking the suggestions of many here and simply steeling myself and trusting in God, but as an academic question, what would you say?

 

[maltmom]

It could be argued that I didn’t have full knowledge or full consent going into the faith… Not saying I will bring that up formally, because after all, I’m taking the suggestions of many here and simply steeling myself and trusting in God, but as an academic question, what would you say?

Unlike you decree of nullity there isn’t a tribunal when you stand before God. They won’t be a yeah, but with Him. So I’m not sure who you would formally bring it up to.

 

[Porknpie]

Something hit me earlier today…

I did not know, and was never told, that when you entered the Church, you were in for life and to leave would mean the consequences described throughout this thread. It wasn’t until after I was received that I heard a priest say, “once Catholic, always Catholic” and even then, I didn’t take that with all the weight and extra meaning it apparently has.

Point being, I was granted annulment by the Church because it was decided that my ex and I lacked full knowledge/consent going into the marriage, and if you don’t have full consent etc, then it can’t be a marriage (same for mortal sin).

It could be argued that I didn’t have full knowledge or full consent going into the faith… Not saying I will bring that up formally, because after all, I’m taking the suggestions of many here and simply steeling myself and trusting in God, but as an academic question, what would you say?

Merlin, I read all your posts and I can not understand you. No offense but it’s just not clear what the issue is. Are you having a problem with the church doctrines, if so which ones? Are you struggling with a sin that you can not overcome and feel guilt and feel you can not be forgiven? These are not questions that you have to answer on this post. My addition to the other posts are 1) to go talk to your priest AND do so on a regular basis. Get to know him and give him a chance to know you. Ask for his spiritual advice along the way. 2) attend mass during the week if you can, as much as you can. 3) I agree 200% with MLZ in going to Eucharistic adoration as much as possible. Pray and listen in silence while you do so.

God Bless…I pray for you too.

 

[MariaG]

Merlin, you should be talking to your priest.

Okay, good advice. And you posted my response Merlin before this advice because…?

 

[MariaG]

Something hit me earlier today…

I did not know, and was never told, that when you entered the Church, you were in for life and to leave would mean the consequences described throughout this thread. It wasn’t until after I was received that I heard a priest say, “once Catholic, always Catholic” and even then, I didn’t take that with all the weight and extra meaning it apparently has.

Point being, I was granted annulment by the Church because it was decided that my ex and I lacked full knowledge/consent going into the marriage, and if you don’t have full consent etc, then it can’t be a marriage (same for mortal sin).

It could be argued that I didn’t have full knowledge or full consent going into the faith… Not saying I will bring that up formally, because after all, I’m taking the suggestions of many here and simply steeling myself and trusting in God, but as an academic question, what would you say?

Maybe you could argue that, but it also talks about those who KNOW but refuse to become a member. So whether you knew fully before or not the consequence is the same. You know NOW and will be held responsible by God for that knowledge.

 

[mlz]

As a new convert myself I’m wondering how you came into the Chuch? Was it a long reflective period? Again, I urge you to just sit before the Blessed sacrament for an hour each week. Such peace ! Did you ever wonder if you aren’t being pulled down by the evil one?

Mlz

 

[CMatt25]

Once you are a Catholic, you are one for eternity.

That’s what I thought.

 

[CMatt25]

Protestants who have never heard of the Catholic Church and don’t know that the Catholic Church is the source of their Sacraments and Scriptures cannot be damned for their lack of knowledge, but **we cannot un-know what we know **- we have to remain faithful to the Church - even when from the outside, it seems imperfect.

I know your church teaches if you know and don’t remain you could not be saved. But what if someone believed and “knew” but had a change in belief at some later point in their life and they then no longer “know”?

 

[Porknpie]

Okay, good advice. And you posted my response Merlin before this advice because…?

Maria, (wonderful name) I think you are asking me. I should have started by saying “I agree.”. It was implied, sorry if that wasnt clear. That said, Merlin needs to be talking to his priest.

How about the 3P’s: Priest, pray and perpetual adoration.

 

[MariaG]

Maria, (wonderful name) I think you are asking me. I should have started by saying “I agree.”. It was implied, sorry if that wasnt clear. That said, Merlin needs to be talking to his priest.

How about the 3P’s: Priest, pray and perpetual adoration.

:tiphat: thanks for the clarification.

So far on this thread I have been accusers of being wicked, uncharitable and I think there was another one for answering the posters question.

Edit: I remember now, it wasn’t specifically to me but another who answered similarly, fire and brimstone.

 

[CleverUserName]

The Eucharist.

That is Jesus Christ. The same Christ who stayed behind at the temple while his earthly parents walked ahead. The same Christ who healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, raised the dead. The same Christ who never turned His back on us, who never walked away when it became too much to bear, knowing the fate that lay ahead of him. The same Christ who stretched out his arms and feet upon the cross so that they could drive nails through them. The same Christ who hung upon that cross and looked down through his agony upon us and the world and died in the greatest act of love that ever was.

That is literally Jesus Christ in that Eucharist, who never abandoned you.

Please don’t abandon Him.

 

[Merlin3626]

So far on this thread I have been accusers of being wicked, uncharitable…

Just for posterity’s sake: personally, I don’t think you’re either wicked or uncharitable, and I thank you for all the honest points of view.

So whether you knew fully before or not the consequence is the same. You know NOW and will be held responsible by God for that knowledge.

But full knowledge at the time is needed for the validity of both marriage and mortal sin. So why not conversion?

As a new convert myself I’m wondering how you came into the Chuch? Was it a long reflective period? Again, I urge you to just sit before the Blessed sacrament for an hour each week. Such peace ! Did you ever wonder if you aren’t being pulled down by the evil one?
Mlz

Yes… it was about a year and half between making the decision and the Easter Vigil I was confirmed at. Plenty of time for reflection, but as I said, I was unaware of this no going back clause. As for adoration, when I can find a chapel that doesn’t have the half the parish using it as a shortcut to the sidewalk, or one that hasn’t been commandeered by Ladies Idle Chatting Association, I’ll be happy to go again (I used to go twice a week for about a year and a half).

Merlin, I read all your posts and I can not understand you. No offense but it’s just not clear what the issue is. Are you having a problem with the church doctrines, if so which ones? Are you struggling with a sin that you can not overcome and feel guilt and feel you can not be forgiven? These are not questions that you have to answer on this post. My addition to the other posts are 1) to go talk to your priest AND do so on a regular basis. Get to know him and give him a chance to know you. Ask for his spiritual advice along the way. 2) attend mass during the week if you can, as much as you can. 3) I agree 200% with MLZ in going to Eucharistic adoration as much as possible. Pray and listen in silence while you do so. God Bless…I pray for you too.

No, I have no problem with any Church doctrine or dogma; it all makes perfect sense once you start examining it. Struggles with sin are there but pretty run-of-the-mill. My thoughts on adoration were mentioned a few lines up, and as for daily mass, I did that for a year a half, and I came out of it worse than I went in.

About 6 months after reception into the Church I started on that daily mass regimen, along with regular adoration, regular confession, the Little Office, Rosary daily, got involved with two church groups, volunteered on occasion down at a local food pantry. I did everything I could think of to live a good Catholic life and embraced everyone else’s recommendations as well. But instead of becoming nicer, happier, more even-keeled spiritually, feeling closer to God etc., I became miserable, and very angry, and don’t feel like a can get a moment’s peace with the Lord in the context of the Catholic Church.

The only time I feel close is during the quiet moments throughout the day when I just talk to Him, or when I hear certain music, or see certain pictures, or go for a morning walk, or stand in the middle of the yard for 5 minutes while I wait for the dog to do what she has to do while the sun shines and the birds chirp, or, conversely, when it’s a gray, rainy day and I sit down to read some Keats while the rain beats against the window pane.

Those are the times I feel near to the Lord, and none of them have a darn thing to do with attending mass or half of the other things the Church asks me to do. So my heart is one place, but my head is planted firmly in the RCC. It’s a contradiction I wasn’t planning on.

I hope that helps explain things, but I think I have to stop explaining, because not long after the first post this started sounding like whining, which is something I’d rather not do.

 

[collette124]

Anyone who is part of the true faith–knows the true faith–leaves the true faith–and is unrepentent for leaving the true faith all the way til their death winds up going to Hell!

There are consequences for leaving the true church of Jesus Christ.

Jesus will judge.

Well, during a Lecture at the Vatican in 1999 Pope John Paul stated that there is no such thing as Hell.

 

[collette124]

Well, during a Lecture at the Vatican in 1999 Pope John Paul stated that there is no such thing as Hell.

Also, many good Catholics have remained Christians but have stopped attending mass due to disgust regarding the Vatican cover up of Paedophile Priests.

 

[jmcrae]

I know your church teaches if you know and don’t remain you could not be saved. But what if someone believed and “knew” but had a change in belief at some later point in their life and they then no longer “know”?

Such a thing could not happen overnight. At some point, a deliberate decision would have to be made, while in the full knowledge that it was a bad idea.

Also, we have a duty to inform ourselves of the truth. I would hate to be there when someone goes to the Judgement Day and says, 'I didn’t know" who lived in the Internet age, and was a subscriber to Catholic Answers. God knows the heart, and knows even those things that people hide from themselves.