Are there subtle forms of Satanic worship?

[Robert_Sock]

Certainly we can zero in on ideas which produce evil as mentioned. However what does that have to do with Football or Music?

I guess I have a stricter spiritual “diet” than most of the others here on CAF.

 

[SonCatcher]

I guess I have a stricter spiritual “diet” than most of the others here on CAF.

Not at all. I don’t participate in any of the activities you refer to as objectionable. But it would be presumptuous of me to think others were “less spiritual” than I just because they do.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Not at all. I don’t participate in any of the activities you refer to as objectionable. But it would be presumptuous of me to think others were “less spiritual” than I just because they do.

That’s true. But I think I do gravitate towards a more holier and disciplined life than most.

 

[Little_One0307]

I’m basically coming up with these questions out of curiosity of what people think. And, yes, I do personally think that there are subtle forms of Satanic worship. I do tend to differ on a lot of issues here on CAF, but I think a lot of my questions act as food for thoughts. People who disagree on these things often have little or no proof of their position either.

That’s good to know. I really didn’t remember reading anything in the Magisterial Teaching about some of these positions I have seen come across my screen in the last few days.

It really does not come down to personal opinion. I don’t really know whether there are subtle forms of worshipping Satan or not, peeple can be covert about whether they worship Satan or not, but claiming that football or video games are forms of Satanic worship, I am failing to see the thinking process that deduces these things.

God bless.

 

[GaryTaylor]

That’s true. But I think I do gravitate towards a more holier and disciplined life than most.

You can only prove this by how…judging others? Is that your Catholic responsibility or is it to Love your Neighbor as yourself?

 

[Little_One0307]

I guess I have a stricter spiritual “diet” than most of the others here on CAF.

I know several people who are holy and are in line with the Magisterium of the Church that watch football and play vidoe games.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

That’s true. But I think I do gravitate towards a more holier and disciplined life than most.

Litany of Humility - written by Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val, the Secretary of State to Pope St. Pius X:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed, R. Deliver me Jesus.
From the desire of being loved, R.
From the desire of being extolled, R.
From the desire of being honored, R.
From the desire of being praised, R.
From the desire of being preferred to others, R.
From the desire of being consulted, R.
From the desire of being approved, R.
From the fear of being humiliated, R.
From the fear of being despised, R.
From the fear of suffering rebukes, R.
From the fear of being calumniated, R.
From the fear of being forgotten, R.
From the fear of being ridiculed, R.
From the fear of being wronged, R.
From the fear of being suspected, R.

That others may be loved more than I, 2nd R. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I, 2nd R.
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, 2nd R.
That others may be chosen and I set aside, 2nd R.
That others may be praised and I unnoticed, 2nd R.
That others may be preferred to me in everything, 2nd R.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, 2nd R.

---

May we all gravitate towards humility, which is indeed Holiness itself.

God bless.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Litany of Humility - written by Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val, the Secretary of State to Pope St. Pius X:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, hear me.

From the desire of being esteemed, R. Deliver me Jesus.
From the desire of being loved, R.
From the desire of being extolled, R.
From the desire of being honored, R.
From the desire of being praised, R.
From the desire of being preferred to others, R.
From the desire of being consulted, R.
From the desire of being approved, R.
From the fear of being humiliated, R.
From the fear of being despised, R.
From the fear of suffering rebukes, R.
From the fear of being calumniated, R.
From the fear of being forgotten, R.
From the fear of being ridiculed, R.
From the fear of being wronged, R.
From the fear of being suspected, R.

That others may be loved more than I, 2nd R. Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I, 2nd R.
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, 2nd R.
That others may be chosen and I set aside, 2nd R.
That others may be praised and I unnoticed, 2nd R.
That others may be preferred to me in everything, 2nd R.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, 2nd R.

---

May we all gravitate towards humility, which is indeed Holiness itself.

God bless.

I believe myself to be humble too!

 

[GaryTaylor]

Humility is a well thought out path Robert, as the Mystics of the CC tell us. Thats the start of the journey that leads to the other vertical steps and an absolute must.

God Bless, Gary

 

[SonCatcher]

I guess I have a stricter spiritual “diet” than most of the others here on CAF.

That’s true. But I think I do gravitate towards a more holier and disciplined life than most.

I believe myself to be humble too!

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:9-14[/BIBLEDRB]

I’m outta this thread!

 

[Robert_Sock]

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:9-14[/BIBLEDRB]

I’m outta this thread!

How humble of you!

 

[justtryin]

I believe there can be subtle forms of Satanic worship!

I think your use of “satanic worship” is the wrong desciption. Instead, I think “satanic devices” may be more appropriate.
Also I can’t speak of football. I do remember reading something in Evidence of Satan in The Modern World (Leon Christiani, 1959, 1961)

In chapter 10:

       The Devices of Satan

In addition to satanism as a religion or as magic, there are also what one might call the devices of Satan.

In a famous and fiery speech made by St. Peter Chrysologus to his diocesans of Ravenne, we find the words: “He that has played with the Devil will not reign with Christ!” He was speaking to professed Christians, but even they were sometimes tempted by the devices of the Devil, which in this case were the immoral spectacles of the circus. In our day, as in the fifth century, a Christian should know that he cannot sup with the Devil without risking his future share in the Kingdom.

But the devices of the Devil are hardly the same as in the days of St. Peter Chrysoslogus, or if they are they have taken on a new guise. We have already mentioned the cinema, and that is enough. Neither need we enlarge on the abuse of the novel, the favorite reading of so many of our contemporaries, whose success seems in direct proportion to the unsavoury nature of its contents.

No Christian can be in any doubt that the modern successful novel, with its morbid and perverted ‘realism’, is more often than not satanic. …

… How many of our contemporaries take their whole philosophy, their whole outlook on life solely from the novels they read, which are too often designed simply to titillate their senses and their imagination.

If we were to substitute the cinema and novels, how many more things could be put in their place today?
This doesn’t mean such practices are direct worship of satan. But it could mean they are devices of satan which he uses to lure Christians away from God and corrupt their thoughts and judgement.

 

[Corki]

That’s true. But I think I do gravitate towards a more holier and disciplined life than most.

I’m sorry but that sounds very prideful and not at all holy.

St. Josemaria Escriva and St. Therese Lisseux but taught that holiness is found in doing the ordinary things in live well. That includes work and leisure activities.

Sports and games, even video games are morally neutral. They are no more Satanic than sleeping. Sure, there can be games with a sinful content though I can’t imagine a Satanic version of football. But there can be sin even in prayer if you do it and claim that it makes your life holier than most.

 

[justtryin]

Sports and games, even video games are morally neutral.

Off topic…probably…
Idea for a new thread…maybe…

What exactly is morally neutral? Right is right, wrong is wrong. There is no relativism in morality. Every thought, word and action has a consequence. Does it lead us nearer to God or separate us from Divinity?

If our actions point us towards the Divine they are without doubt worthy of endeavor.
However, if they lead us to self or things considered worldly, can they truly be considered morally neutral?

Everything leads to something, doesn’t it?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Robert let us re-cap here for a moment.

The thread started with specifics of evil then quickly turned to a much more overall perception.

Here I must say that projecting in unspecifics is counter-productive. Reason being that you are enabling the fear by cooperating with it, thus you become a part of the overall attitude by allowing it to exit. Basically what everyone who responded to you here quickly tried to do was “correct error”.

This “is” humility in that we desend so others could ascend. Thus by doing so quickly bring you up to speed where we are. Thats a very large part of how Christianity works. Should one intrepret this incorrectly then obviously further dialogue would be needed. However, the faster you can comprehend this basic concept the faster you can come to terms thus move past it. So you can ascend.

I never doubted the depth of your faith. You responded to your own virtures in “defense”, why I do not know.

Specifically what I now question is why you chose to project on this issue? Are you in fact having a specific issue so we can cut through the chase? Do you understand this facination or awe can grow into a real issue? Taking a non-reality and turning it into your own reality is defeated in twinkle of an eye by not entertaining your own imagination of fear. Here is Free-Will.

Adam and Eve is a great example of this. The Serpent does nothing but lie and this is enabled by Free-Will. That nonsense is easily disabled “if” you choose to do so. As St. Teresa of Avila stated, “It like a fly thats buzzing around your head” Just swat it away.

The only reality that truly deserves “awe” is God and his love of you.

Peace

 

[Robert_Sock]

Again the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant seeking good pearls. Who when he had found one pearl of great price, went his way, and sold all that he had, and bought it.
-Matthew 13: 45-46

The pearl of great worth is God. The selling of everything the merchant has is analogous to rejecting the occasion to sin (devil worship) found in such mundane things as watching football, listening to rock music, and playing video games. The lesson here is to let go of everything that lends itself to mundane thoughts and preoccupations and trade it for the holiness of God; if it does not lead to holiness it’s from the evil one and ought to be shunned.

Hope this clarifies my position.

 

[Neildown]

Again the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant seeking good pearls. Who when he had found one pearl of great price, went his way, and sold all that he had, and bought it.
-Matthew 13: 45-46

The pearl of great worth is God. The selling of everything the merchant has is analogous to rejecting the occasion to sin (devil worship) found in such mundane things as watching football, listening to rock music, and playing video games. The lesson here is to let go of everything that lends itself to mundane thoughts and preoccupations and trade it for the holiness of God; if it does not lead to holiness it’s from the evil one and ought to be shunned.

Hope this clarifies my position.

Then why not sell one’s house, TV, computer, and anything else that could possibly be an occasion for sin? If we have to give up video games and football, why not take it to that extreme? God requires that we are willing to reject all earthly things for Him, but that doesn’t mean we literally have to give everything away to get to heaven - otherwise the only people getting into heaven would be hermits. We just have to be willing to abandon those things for God and be willing to let them go when we have to.

Football, nor video games are inherently evil - it depends on what you do with them that counts, which is why I’m slightly surprised no one commented on my first post. Also, on rock music - it depends on the artist. Nowhere in the rock genre is the requirement for satanic references.

Also - sin is equivalent to demon worship? I beg to differ. Demon worship is considered a mortal sin. Thus, going by your logic, it would seem ALL sin is mortal - which is against what the Church teaches.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Then why not sell one’s house, TV, computer, and anything else that could possibly be an occasion for sin? If we have to give up video games and football, why not take it to that extreme? God requires that we are willing to reject all earthly things for Him, but that doesn’t mean we literally have to give everything away to get to heaven - otherwise the only people getting into heaven would be hermits. We just have to be willing to abandon those things for God and be willing to let them go when we have to.

Football, nor video games are inherently evil - it depends on what you do with them that counts, which is why I’m slightly surprised no one commented on my first post. Also, on rock music - it depends on the artist. Nowhere in the rock genre is the requirement for satanic references.

Also - sin is equivalent to demon worship? I beg to differ. Demon worship is considered a mortal sin. Thus, going by your logic, it would seem ALL sin is mortal - which is against what the Church teaches.

I agree that it all depends on what is going on in the mind. Things like football, rock music, and video games can easily lead us away from holiness.

We live in a world of good and evil. It’s all a matter of the degree we let ourselves be led away from holiness and engage in the folly of mundane things. We will never rid ourselves completely of evil here on earth, but only when we finally arrive in the Hereafter.

Selling one’s house might just be a worthy sacrifice that would enable a person the fruits of becoming a hermit or monk! It’s not unheard of, and I’ve often desired to get rid of everything I own and join a monastery. Again, it’s a matter of the degree we are willing to arrange our lives to conform to a life of holiness while minimizing the occasion to evil.

And, again, anything that leads us away from holiness comes from the evil one!

 

[Neildown]

I agree that it all depends on what is going on in the mind. Things like football, rock music, and video games can easily lead us away from holiness.

That is true, but looking around, you can lead yourself away from God with anything and everything - it’s kind of hard to be constantly thinking of God and holy things 24 / 7. We have to think of secular things at some point, and it’s near impossible for most people to dwell on Godly things as a pass-time every time they need a pass-time. I could ponder on the process of making pencils, which is just as related or non to God as football or video games, and this wouldn’t be in the least sinful.

We live in a world of good and evil. It’s all a matter of the degree we let ourselves be led away from holiness and engage in the folly of mundane things. We will never rid ourselves completely of evil here on earth, but only when we finally arrive in the Hereafter.

Not all secular things lead us away from God though - it just depends on whether or not you are capable and willing to derive more good from such things than bad. For instance, when I play Call of Duty 4, I don’t focus on KILL KILL KILL!!! * I focus on my position, use of a weapon, and strategic movement throughout the map, as well as the fact that I’m killing virtual enemies who would otherwise do virtual harm to a virtual world. As you said, we will never be rid of evil here [which includes physical violence and war], so being prepared to defend against that evil [even be it through the bit of training one receives from such a game] is a positive thing.

Again, it’s a matter of the degree we are willing to arrange our lives to conform to a life of holiness while minimizing the occasion to evil.

I can agree with that, but video games, football, and rock music are just a few of millions of things that present a choice between good or evil. If you can justify playing a video game like above^ for a relevant purpose and it’s not sinful, I don’t see how or why it would be the equivalent of demon-worship. I mean yes, some people will obsess over football or video games [even myself once in awhile with video games], but it isn’t a sin to have more fun watching a game or playing one than praying or thinking of God. This is even stated in my theology book somewhere. Provided you fulfill your daily obligations to God and always try to improve on them, it really shouldn’t be a big deal.

Of course we are to minimize occasions of sin, but what you deem as an occasion of sin simply isn’t one for many people. Though I certainly do not deny that it is an occasion of sin for many as well.

And, again, anything that leads us away from holiness comes from the evil one!

What then of human nature though? We cause ourselves to sin - Satan merely tempts us. This also falls in with my argument - the fact that we can do right or wrong with anything and everything. It’s just a choice. Though it may be easier to live a holy life without those extra choices, I don’t think it is any sin in itself to allow those extra choices into one’s life provided they can be handled well. I met a stigmatic named Alexander J. Avendano and he apparently owned either an Xbox or PS3. I must note he did not own any shooting games though - as far as I know.*

 

[Robert_Sock]

That is true, but looking around, you can lead yourself away from God with anything and everything - it’s kind of hard to be constantly thinking of God and holy things 24 / 7. We have to think of secular things at some point, and it’s near impossible for most people to dwell on Godly things as a pass-time every time they need a pass-time. I could ponder on the process of making pencils, which is just as related or non to God as football or video games, and this wouldn’t be in the least sinful.

Again, it’s a matter of degree and the effort one wishes to devote to practicing Holiness.

Not all secular things lead us away from God though - it just depends on whether or not you are capable and willing to derive more good from such things than bad. For instance, when I play Call of Duty 4, I don’t focus on KILL KILL KILL!!! * I focus on my position, use of a weapon, and strategic movement throughout the map, as well as the fact that I’m killing virtual enemies who would otherwise do virtual harm to a virtual world. As you said, we will never be rid of evil here [which includes physical violence and war], so being prepared to defend against that evil [even be it through the bit of training one receives from such a game] is a positive thing.
*

Whether or not secular things lead us away from God depends on what is going on within the mind.
Neildown;8212183:

I can agree with that, but video games, football, and rock music are just a few of millions of things that present a choice between good or evil. If you can justify playing a video game like above^ for a relevant purpose and it’s not sinful, I don’t see how or why it would be the equivalent of demon-worship. I mean yes, some people will obsess over football or video games [even myself once in awhile with video games], but it isn’t a sin to have more fun watching a game or playing one than praying or thinking of God. This is even stated in my theology book somewhere. Provided you fulfill your daily obligations to God and always try to improve on them, it really shouldn’t be a big deal.

My contention in this thread is to suggest to people that sin, and the worship of Satan, is subtle and happens whenever we turn our attention from God. With practice and perseverance we can all manage to keep a part of our mind on holy things!

Of course we are to minimize occasions of sin, but what you deem as an occasion of sin simply isn’t one for many people. Though I certainly do not deny that it is an occasion of sin for many as well.

Again, it’s a matter of the degree we let ourselves get carried away with mundane things.

What then of human nature though? We

cause ourselves to sin - Satan merely tempts us. This also falls in with my argument - the fact that we can do right or wrong with anything and everything. It’s just a choice. Though it may be easier to live a holy life without those extra choices, I don’t think it is any sin in itself to allow those extra choices into one’s life provided they can be handled well. I met a stigmatic named Alexander J. Avendano and he apparently owned either an Xbox or PS3. I must note he did not own any shooting games though - as far as I know.

Again, Satan is subtle, and often leads us into sin by diverting our attention from holiness.

Owning an Xbox or PS3 need not be sinful if we are able to keep our minds on holiness, but more often than not, we’re unable.