Are those who do not receive Jesus in Holy Eucharist really Christians? Is it insanity for them to continue claiming to be Christians?

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Worship the bread and wine, Ralph; it’s of no consequence to me.
That is unusual for you. Ordinarily, you at least give an answer before the comment section. 😛

I understand that scripturally, it says that Jesus is at the Right hand of the Father until he returns.

I also understand that with God, all things are possible.

I also understand that the Risen Jesus did many things that regular men cannot, such as appearing in locked rooms.

I know that the Creator is NOT bound by the Rules of Creation.

I know that Jesus said “This IS my body” and “this IS my blood.” He did not say “represents” or “consider this to be” or “pretend.”

Yes, I read scripture as a CAtholic. You read it as a certain type of Non-Catholic.

Where is the hole in my logic?

How do I know that you are right?

Prove that your guiding Spirit is the Holy Spirit and ours is not.
 
I’m not worshipping bread and wine, Mick, you are; better you pray for mercy for yourself.
The Apostolic Church receives the most Precious Body and Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist as set forth in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

May the Lord have mercy on you for denying His Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist.
 
Worship the bread and wine, Ralph; it’s of no consequence to me.
It was Jesus who said this is my body which has been given up for you. It was Jesus who said this is my blood. How could we worship bread and wine when it turns into the living Christ? When we go to communion we receive the Living Christ. That is what Jesus taught us. If this is wrong why did he tell us that?
 
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ralphinal:
That is unusual for you. Ordinarily, you at least give an answer before the comment section.

I understand that scripturally, it says that Jesus is at the Right hand of the Father until he returns.

I also understand that with God, all things are possible.

I also understand that the Risen Jesus did many things that regular men cannot, such as appearing in locked rooms.

I know that the Creator is NOT bound by the Rules of Creation.

I know that Jesus said “This IS my body” and “this IS my blood.” He did not say “represents” or “consider this to be” or “pretend.”

Yes, I read scripture as a CAtholic. You read it as a certain type of Non-Catholic.

Where is the hole in my logic?

How do I know that you are right?

Prove that your guiding Spirit is the Holy Spirit and ours is not.
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Mickey:
The Apostolic Church receives the most Precious Body and Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist as set forth in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

May the Lord have mercy on you for denying His Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist.
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rinnie:
It was Jesus who said this is my body which has been given up for you. It was Jesus who said this is my blood. How could we worship bread and wine when it turns into the living Christ? When we go to communion we receive the Living Christ. That is what Jesus taught us. If this is wrong why did he tell us that?
We’re not in agreement on this, but we will be on a future day.
 
My best friend is a protestant and I feel she is as good as a Christian as I am. She and I do not agree on faith, but thats okay. But to deny her being a Christian, Thats crazy. And she is living her faith the way she was taught just like I try.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them** you think you have eternal life**; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

John 6:36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

John 6:66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Quoted from www.goarch.org NKJV - my bolding.

There is no way around Jesus’ words.

Everyone who reads His words, yet refuse to believe His words - that we are to Eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood - refuse to join the Church Christ Jesus gave His very Life to establish - bring judgement on themselves.

Those who have never heard Jesus words do not bring judgement on themselves for not believing what Jesus said.

May He have Mercy on us all!
 
I am currently in RCIA. I have been baptised twice - once at birth and once at my real conversion to Christianity as a baptist 20 some years ago. It was called believers baptism and you must first publicly and in your heart repent and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Asked the catholic priest about this - and he said that Catholics do not have a corner on heaven. If you want to enjoy the fullness of the christian faith, then being a catholic will allow you to do that due to the Seven Sacraments, etc. I may not be able to quote it exactly. but i know what he said.

I will see my methodist, baptist, and protestant deceased relatives in heaven if I live the fullness of the faith and if they did as well IN THEIR FAITH.
 
Okay stmarina303 lets me and you make a deal. You ask Father on Sunday if you have to more or less be Catholic to be Christians, because lets face it you can only get the Eucharist in a Catholic Church. And let me know what he says. How is that. I will be waiting for Mon to hear your response. Now no beating around the bush ask him straight up If a person can be a Christian without receiving communion in the Church.
 
I am currently in RCIA. I have been baptised twice - once at birth and once at my real conversion to Christianity as a baptist 20 some years ago. It was called believers baptism and you must first publicly and in your heart repent and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Asked the catholic priest about this - and he said that Catholics do not have a corner on heaven. If you want to enjoy the fullness of the christian faith, then being a catholic will allow you to do that due to the Seven Sacraments, etc. I may not be able to quote it exactly. but i know what he said.

I will see my methodist, baptist, and protestant deceased relatives in heaven if I live the fullness of the faith and if they did as well IN THEIR FAITH.
You are correct the Pope said if it has not been revealed to you, and you live in your faith the best you can, you have got as good as chance as anyone. But here is the big difference now that you know the fullness of the faith, and you turn you back on it your soul is in grave danger. But before you were not held responsible because you did not understand the faith. Just like if you were not married in the Church you can remarry. But if you were married Catholic, unless you get an annullment you are married forever.
 
To answer your question, its not. He does.

Jon
The main problem with the Reformation is the division of Christianity along the I am right and you are not lines of private (meaning not unified) Scripture interpretation.

The majority of Christians have always accepted some form of the Real Presence, but we are wrong because John Calvin did not.
 
The main problem with the Reformation is the division of Christianity along the I am right and you are not lines of private (meaning not unified) Scripture interpretation.

The majority of Christians have always accepted some form of the Real Presence, but we are wrong because John Calvin did not.
Luther
“Before I drink mere wine with the Swiss I shall drink blood with the pope”
On your first comment, I actually agree.
Jon
 
Again, I ask, why is it impossible for GOd to allow the bread and wine to turn into the Real Presence of Jesus?
A friend of mine whose daughter has become “born again” said today that she could not explain the Real Presence to her because the daughter just shuts her ears. And yet she said that her son’s friend who is a cradle Protestant listened intently to her explanation.

I think the stumbling block is the imagery. One thing that people forget is we are not eating Jesus flesh as if somehow you have cut off a piece of Him to much on. We are eating Jesus, Body, Soul, and Divinity, not pieces of Him.

Looking back at the exchange in this thread, I don’t think there is anything else I can say that the others and I have not already said. No amount of explanation will do for a closed heart and shuttered mind.

So I am bowing out of this thread.

At the end of the day, it all rests on faith. Whether we can take Jesus’s words for it or we can’t. I said to a Protestant friend once, that I believe in the Eucharist not of my own accord but because God has gifted me with the faith to believe.

In closing though I would like to share something I came upon whilst preparing my talk for a seminar on the Eucharist.

When St Augustine was having a hard time trying to come to grips with the doctrine on the Real Presence, he heard a voice say to him:

“Eat me.
I am the bread of the strong.
But you will not transform me
and make me part of you.
Rather,
I will transform you
And make you part of ME”


:grouphug:
 
Ben Dear! :flowers:
Sob don’t leave us! :crying: We need you!

“Looking back at the exchange in this thread, I don’t think there is anything else I can say that the others and I have not already said. No amount of explanation will do for a closed heart and shuttered mind.”

But Ben, sweetheart! 😃
It is our Christian duty to continue our attempts to pull their souls out of the cluches of Jesus’ adversary, the devil, who walks about like a roaring lion devouring souls that should rightly belong to Jesus.

We owe it to them to keep trying! Their very souls depend on our ability to “force open” their eyes!

Remember, unlike them, we have the Holy Spirit on our side. :highprayer: How could we ever lose? 👍

God Bless
 
Ol’ Marty had a flair for the hyperbole, didn’t he 😛 😃
Ding, Ding, Ding!!! Ralph, you have just won “The Understatement of the Month Award”!! 😛 😛
But he was right.
And even in the midst of his anger at the papacy, he could not and would not deny this central truth of the Lord’s Supper, as Christ stated himself, This is my body. No figurative language here. As Luther said, “ist ist ist” (Is is is).

Jon
 
Ding, Ding, Ding!!! Ralph, you have just won “The Understatement of the Month Award”!!

Yup!

And even in the midst of his anger at the papacy, he could not and would not deny this central truth of the Lord’s Supper, as Christ stated himself, This is my body. No figurative language here. As Luther said, “ist ist ist” (Is is is).

He didn’t want to start a new religion, to destroy what he loved. He must be so sad at what has happened to the CC that he loved because of the evil that happened because of the Humans involved.

Here is another priest I just think is right on targe just as Marty was!:
**
Church is not Wal-Mart **[NB. Permission to repost/copy with proper attribution is given.]
  1. The Roman Catholic Church isn’t WalMart or Burger King; it’s the Body of Christ.
2). Catholic priests, nuns, sisters/brothers and laity aren’t employees; we are members of the Body of Christ.

3). The doctrine and dogma of the Catholic Church are not consumer products that the Church’s employees sell to those who want them; Catholic doctrine and dogma express the unchanging truth of the faith.

4). Life in a Catholic parish is not a trip to Disney Land or Target or McDonald’s where your consumer needs and whims are catered to by the whimpering clergy and lay staff; parish life is the life of Christ for the local Catholic family.

5). You do not come into the Catholic Church b/c you like the building better than you like the Methodist chapel; or because the priest at the Catholic parish is cuter than the Baptist preacher; or because you heard that the homilies are shorter at St. Bubba’s by the Lake than they are at the Unitarian Church. You come into the Catholic Church because you believe that the Catholic faith is the truth of the gospel taught by Christ himself and given to his apostles.

6). Leaving the Catholic Church because a priest was mean to you, or because sister whacked you with a ruler, or because the church secretary looked at you funny is as stupid as giving up on the truths of math because you hate your high school algebra teacher. Why would anyone let a crazy priest or a cranky nun or anyone else for the matter drive you out of the faith you believe is true? My only conclusion: you never thought it was true to begin with; or, you have a favorite sin the Church teaches against and crazy priests and cranky nuns is as good an excuse as any to leave and pursue your sin all the while feeling justified because Father and/or Sister are such jerks.

7). Anyone who comes in the Catholic Church thinking that they will find clouds of angels at Mass dressed as parishioners; hordes of perfect saints kneeling for communion; seminaries packed with angelic young men burning to be priests; a parish hall stacked to the ceiling with morally pure people eager to serve; and a priest without flaw or blemish, well, you’re cracked and you probably need to go back and try again. Telling Catholics that they aren’t perfect makes as much sense as telling fish they’re wet. We know already. Move on.

8). Of the hundreds of priests and religious I know, I know two whocould count as saints right now. The rest of us are deeply flawed, impure, struggling creatures who know all too well that we fail utterly to meet the basic standards of holiness. For that matter: so do you. Get in line.

9). The Catholic Church owes no one a revision of her doctrine or dogma. She didn’t change to save most of Europe from becoming Protestant, why would you imagine that she would change just to get you in one of her parishes?

10). If you want to become Catholic, do it. But do it because you think the Church teaches the true faith. If a cranky priest on a blogsite is enough to keep you from embracing the truth of the faith, then two things are painfully clear: 1) you do not believe the Church teaches the faith; 2) and you care more about expresssing your hurt consumer feelings than you do for your immortal soul.

Fr. Philip, OP
 
Telling Catholics that they aren’t perfect makes as much sense as telling fish they’re wet. We know already. Move on.
With all due respect to Fr. Phillip, I would say rather that telling Catholics they aren’t perfect should be like telling fish they’re wet.
 
You are correct the Pope said if it has not been revealed to you, and you live in your faith the best you can, you have got as good as chance as anyone. But here is the big difference now that you know the fullness of the faith, and you turn you back on it your soul is in grave danger. But before you were not held responsible because you did not understand the faith. Just like if you were not married in the Church you can remarry. But if you were married Catholic, unless you get an annullment you are married forever.
That makes sense. Once you convert to being a catholic much is expected. But I see many threads from catholics who have never stepped into another denominations church or maybe have never listened to Billy Graham, even. The tone is one of arrogance and self-righteousness. I am not sure if you all realize how beautiful and profound your faith is, sometimes. Listening to sermons from Charles Stanlet and Joel Osteen are vert moviong experiences and lead many to God. The catholic church should be there to help them continue their journey with your faith.
 
🤷 I’m not worshipping bread and wine, Mick, you are; better you pray for mercy for yourself.
**Come on sandusky? dont assume Catholics worship bread and wine , We Do not worship bread and wine,

Catholics worship the true body, blood soul and diviinity of Jesus Christ.

I share these scriptures to you Sandusky, as one Christian to another, May God reveal himself to you as we seek him Peace:)

1 John 1:
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we looked upon and touched with our hands concerns the Word of life–
2
****for the life was made visible; we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made visible to us-- ****
3
what we have seen and heard we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2
This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3
and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus 2 does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4
You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5
They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6
We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit. **
 
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RobGentner:
Kind of touchy today. If I make my conversion to catholcism, I will expect no perfection in anyone except a positive and holy attitude towards a new convert. Your faith is very profound, beautiful, and mysterious. Yes, i do expect to feel angels in the rafters - just like I expect to feel Christ at home in the Body of Christ - the community of believers gathered together in His name.
 
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