Are those who do not receive Jesus in Holy Eucharist really Christians? Is it insanity for them to continue claiming to be Christians?

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brownjt said:
Kind of touchy today. If I make my conversion to catholcism, I will expect no perfection in anyone except a positive and holy attitude towards a new convert. Your faith is very profound, beautiful, and mysterious.

Hi Brown, :tiphat:

On This site, you are welcome to learn and ask questions! All we ask is that if we answer your question, PLEASE don’t tell us we are wrong! You can say you heard different, was taught different, believe different. Just don’t say we are wrong! :tsktsk: Ask us what we believe ~ we will tell you to the best of our ability. Ask us why we believe it ~ most will say because the CC and scriptures tell us so!

Actually, the internet is not the place I would go to learn about anything :takethat: Except maybe the price of gas and then I would check it out somewhere else.:yup:

The Catholic Church has RCIA classes you can attend in a parish near you. 👍

The CC like every other church is made up of humans. I wish you good luck on finding the positive and holy attitude towards a new convert you seek. Some will be nice, others not. Just accept them as people traveling the same path you are. You will be able to rejoice in living the scriptures more fully and much more like the scriptures tell us that we should. :signofcross:

Yes, i do expect to feel angels in the rafters - just like I expect to feel Christ at home in the Body of Christ - the community of believers gathered together in His name.

“Any” Catholic Mass is beautiful, because Jesus is actually there spiritually as in any protestant service, but also physically in the Eucharist! He is truly there, as He promises and He brings us eternal life by our eating His real Body and drinking His real Blood! in the Bread and Wine transformed by His priest! All Praise and Glory to God the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit! :highprayer:

:blessyou:
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brownjt said:
That makes sense. Once you convert to being a catholic much is expected. But I see many threads from catholics who have never stepped into another denominations church or maybe have never listened to Billy Graham, even. The tone is one of arrogance and self-righteousness. I am not sure if you all realize how beautiful and profound your faith is, sometimes. Listening to sermons from Charles Stanlet and Joel Osteen are vert moviong experiences and lead many to God. The catholic church should be there to help them continue their journey with your faith.
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People are People! Billy Graham would be a good car salesman also. So would our Father John Carpia. It is the message not the messanger that is important. I have been to many countries, in many churches and observed many protestant sevices. Some very “Catholic” actually. But Jesus wasn’t there physically, so I left!
You might think Billy Grahm is a holy man, I believe He was a tool used of the Devil. Yea, he talked the talk, but where was the walk? He used Jesus to acquire millions of dollars and self righteousely proclaimed the Bible as he twisted its meaning to his advantage to acquire more wealth. He was used to trick people away from the full knowledge and practice of Jesus’ one realchurch. His son has now taken over the “family business” Now isn’t that “precious”? Understand Me, I don’t judge him, that is not my job. I am just stating my personal opinion.

Yea, I could be wrong. However, I do know the bible warns against false prophets. When they beg for and make millions and spend it on themselves, I smell something rotten. I actually think there is a very special place in Hell for many Protestant “Television evangelists” Maybe Baker, Falwell, Roberts, Hagee, and others can explain to God, how they made millions off of his name, but I doubt it! May God have mercy on them and all us other sinners.
 
StMarina303ad said:
Jesus commanded us to “Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood” multiple times in John 6 after one of the miracles He did multiplying the Loaves and Fishes to show us that it is by a miracle that He gives us is Body & Blood. Towards the end of the chapter many of Jesus’ own disciples (not the 12) left Him on this one issue.

So can anyone truly be a Christian who does not partake in Holy Eucharist - the reception of His True Body and True Blood?

Orthodox Christians and Eastern Catholic Christians begin receiving Holy Eucharist as infants immediately after Baptism and Chrismation during the Rite which includes the reception of all 3 Mysteries/Sacraments at once. It has always been, since the beginning of Christianity, those 3 Mysteries which is the initiation in to the Christian Family, the Christian Church.

I know that lots of people consider themselves Christian, but that doesn’t make them a Christian. I could consider myself a princess, act like I would think a princess should act, dress as a princess should dress, etc., but my thinking and believing I was a princess would certainly not make me a princess.

In fact if I went around claiming to be a princess I would be insane…so similarly isn’t it insanity for someone to consider themselves a Christian when they have not actually “married the prince” when they have never actually been initiated into the Christian Faith by way of Holy Baptism, Chrismation and receiving Holy Eucharist?

There are only two Churches which have valid Eucharist and Mysteries/Sacraments…the same two Churches which maintain an unbroken Apostolic Succession Line back to Jesus’ 12 Apostles. Those Churches are know today as the: Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Pick one! Become one! And see what it is really like to actually be a Christian!

God Bless everyone! Let’s be sure to respect everyone’s opinions even if we should disagree with one another. God loves us all and we are to love each other.
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Yes. I think without a doubt God has no choice but to condemn to hell anyone who does not consume a wafer of bread and a sip of wine. Essentially, that’s what you’re saying isn’t it? It wouldn’t make sense not to. After all, how can a person be anything but evil if the don’t? Sure, some people would claim that to be an aribitrary reason to condemn a person to hell…but those people aren’t true Christians. Consiming these holy food items is clearly the only thing that matters!
 
RobGentner said:
You might think Billy Grahm is a holy man, I believe He was a tool used of the Devil. Yea, he talked the talk, but where was the walk? He used Jesus to acquire millions of dollars and self righteousely proclaimed the Bible as he twisted its meaning to his advantage to acquire more wealth. He was used to trick people away from the full knowledge and practice of Jesus’ one realchurch. His son has now taken over the “family business” Now isn’t that “precious”? Understand Me, I don’t judge him, that is not my job. I am just stating my personal opinion.

Yea, I could be wrong. However, I do know the bible warns against false prophets. When they beg for and make millions and spend it on themselves, I smell something rotten. I actually think there is a very special place in Hell for many Protestant “Television evangelists” Maybe Baker, Falwell, Roberts, Hagee, and others can explain to God, how they made millions off of his name, but I doubt it! May God have mercy on them and all us other sinners.
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First, I suggest you do some research on Graham’s ministry and how he has been paid. He is nothing like some of the others you mention. I would also say that I believe your current and recent past popes have a different view of Graham than the one you have expressed. And just so you know that I’m not taking a narrow “protestant” view, I have said before here and will repeat that I think JP II was the greatest Christian leader of my lifetime.

Jon
 
brownjt said:
That makes sense. Once you convert to being a catholic much is expected. But I see many threads from catholics who have never stepped into another denominations church or maybe have never listened to Billy Graham, even. The tone is one of arrogance and self-righteousness. I am not sure if you all realize how beautiful and profound your faith is, sometimes. Listening to sermons from Charles Stanlet and Joel Osteen are vert moviong experiences and lead many to God. The catholic church should be there to help them continue their journey with your faith.
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I agree many are, as you described. And we are taught not to be like that. I understand also that many have not be brought to the fullness of the truth. And I agree there is alot of good solid truth in other faiths, But the thing that still remains is that the Catholic Church does hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

I understand that other Religious Leaders are teaching the truth. But as a Catholic and you must respect this also, just because they do have some truth, does not mean they have the whole truth.

I mean lets face it, If they really believed and really understood what the Eucharist was and really stood for they would really give their faith another thought.
 
Allnamesused said:
Yes. I think without a doubt God has no choice but to condemn to hell anyone who does not consume a wafer of bread and a sip of wine. Essentially, that’s what you’re saying isn’t it? It wouldn’t make sense not to. After all, how can a person be anything but evil if the don’t? Sure, some people would claim that to be an aribitrary reason to condemn a person to hell…but those people aren’t true Christians. Consiming these holy food items is clearly the only thing that matters!
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Go back and read the New Testament and read Pope Benedict’s book on Jesus. You better be worried about your place in the Kingdom.
 
brownjt said:
Go back and read the New Testament and read Pope Benedict’s book on Jesus. You better be worried about your place in the Kingdom.
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Are you saying that StMarina303ad question, the original post, is Pope Benedict’s position? I think that is what he awnsered, its certainly the post he quoted.
 
rinnie said:
I agree many are, as you described. And we are taught not to be like that. I understand also that many have not be brought to the fullness of the truth. And I agree there is alot of good solid truth in other faiths, But the thing that still remains is that the Catholic Church does hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

I understand that other Religious Leaders are teaching the truth. But as a Catholic and you must respect this also, just because they do have some truth, does not mean they have the whole truth.

I mean lets face it, If they really believed and really understood what the Eucharist was and really stood for they would really give their faith another thought.
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In the name of the truth and forgetting the split, the Catholic church should - in the name of correct doctrine - convince the rest of the faiths that the Holy Eucharist MUST be observed in the correct way. I appreciate your reasonable discourse on your faith and these issues. In this case, the knowledge of the doctrine and the correct manner in approaching the altar of Christ so to speak should be shared and accepted by all christians - I agree hoe can there be so many interpretations…
 
JonNC said:
First, I suggest you do some research on Graham’s ministry and how he has been paid. He is nothing like some of the others you mention. I would also say that I believe your current and recent past popes have a different view of Graham than the one you have expressed. And just so you know that I’m not taking a narrow “protestant” view, I have said before here and will repeat that I think JP II was the greatest Christian leader of my lifetime.

Jon
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Agreed. Just like I was talking about in another quote. This is the attitude that catholics have about a man that pope John Paul thought was a saint? They know nothing about his ministry and his life. Protestants dont think catholics are going to hell - why so extreme with some you all. Politely speaking, the pews of evangelical churches are filled with former catholics - why I wonder. The Word of God message of Love is one for all faiths.
 
SyCarl said:
Yes, I have taken part in a number of them and never received a satisfactory answer. Basically it has been said that Jesus didn’t mean it that way without explaining why, if He didn’t mean part of it literally, we should take the rest of it literally.
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This is a good question. My answer would be to interpret the said passages as the Early Fathers would understand them. All of the pre-Nicene Fathers understood the eucharistic bread and wine to become the body and blood of Christ by the prayers of the preist/presbyter.
 
StMarina303ad said:
A look at history will show you that the Catholics broke away from the Orthodox Church and that the Protestants all broke away from the Catholics or in more recent times the Protestants have broken away from other Protestants sects.

The fruit did not fall far from the tree. Catholics have always been considered the first Protestants since they first Protested against the Orthodox Church and left it. The fruit of their schism has been more and more schisms.
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And how many traditionalist orthodox churches have broken away from the canonical ones in recent years? Not to mention the generally accepted idea that the monophysites are actually orthodox enough to have grace in their sacraments but are still not orthodox enough to be in the Orthodox Church. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

You paint a pretty picture of the Orthodox Church that doesn’y reflect reality. There is just as much contention and corruption in the East as there is in the West. I’m afraid nobody’s perfect.
 
brownjt said:
Go back and read the New Testament and read Pope Benedict’s book on Jesus. You better be worried about your place in the Kingdom.
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I’ll get to it soon…right now I’m busy reading the part of the New Testament that reads “judge not lest ye be judged”.
 
brownjt said:
Agreed. Just like I was talking about in another quote. This is the attitude that catholics have about a man that pope John Paul thought was a saint? They know nothing about his ministry and his life. Protestants dont think catholics are going to hell - why so extreme with some you all. Politely speaking, the pews of evangelical churches are filled with former catholics - why I wonder. The Word of God message of Love is one for all faiths.
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And may I add that Catholic’s do not believe that Portestants are going to hell. But and this is a big but, To answer your question, and I am sure that 99% of Catholics that turned away from the faith either do not understand the Eucharist. Or have turned away from the Church because the Church would not give into mans law. Lets face it the Catholic Church has never changed and never will. What is easier to go to Church and be told that what you are doing is wrong. OR go go another church where anything goes because we are all going to heaven. Just because the Catholic Church will not mislead you in the truth makes it well hated. The RCC teaches, no abortion, no divorce, etc. But they did not make the commandments God did. See the RCC is just not about love, its about sin. We are not taught they we can sin, and its okay. The Pope may or may not have been a Saint. But do you know why he was loved. Because he did not care who or what was thought of him. He did what God asked he told the truth. And stuck by it. He tried to save as many souls that he could. And many Protestants loved him too. Getting back to the RCC being about sin, they will tell you, just like The Pope did and does you are sinning, and you better repent, and turn away from that sin. But people don’t want to hear that. They want to hear that if you believe in God, you are getting into heaven. Well that is not true. So let me be hated with the Pope and the RCC for telling the truth. We all have sins, but we must turn away, ask for forgiveness and QUIT THE SIN. Now I can do that, or go across the street, to another faith and let them tell me its okay, God loves me and understands, All you have to do is believe in God and accept him and you are getting into heaven. Its my choice, and its not easy confronting my sin, but Jesus left the Church to Peter for a reason. Now the Pope, you know why, because he is not going to let you or me run the Church, ITs the way Jesus said then, and its the same now. And until he comes again in glory it will stay the same.
 
VARC said:
And how many traditionalist orthodox churches have broken away from the canonical ones in recent years? Not to mention the generally accepted idea that the monophysites are actually orthodox enough to have grace in their sacraments but are still not orthodox enough to be in the Orthodox Church. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

You paint a pretty picture of the Orthodox Church that doesn’y reflect reality. There is just as much contention and corruption in the East as there is in the West. I’m afraid nobody’s perfect.
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Your comment reflects that you know nothing of Orthodoxy.

First of all Catholic and Oriental Churches that hold still maintain valid Mysteries are precisely because they have valid Apostolic Succession.

You would prefer that the Orthodox Church would view the Catholic Sacraments as invalid? Even though the Catholic Churches and the Orthodox Churches are not in communion with one another - each still maintains valid Mysteries. Being “in communion” with each other and having valid Communion are two separate things.

Never in Church History did every single Church within the Ancient Original Church maintain identical canons - being canonical or not canonical has nothing to do with the validity of the Mysteries.

If you really knew what Orthodoxy taught you’d realize your arguement is a non-arguement. Study and pray - you will be converted.
 
rinnie said:
. Getting back to the RCC being about sin, they will tell you, just like The Pope did and does you are sinning, and you better repent, and turn away from that sin. But people don’t want to hear that. They want to hear that if you believe in God, you are getting into heaven. Well that is not true. So let me be hated with the Pope and the RCC for telling the truth. **We all have sins, but we must turn away, ask for forgiveness and QUIT THE SIN. ** Now I can do that, or go across the street, to another faith and let them tell me its okay, God loves me and understands, All you have to do is believe in God and accept him and you are getting into heaven.
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I don’t know a confessioanl Lutheran who would disagree with this.
Thanks,
Jon
 
Is it me or am I the only one who takes offense to this thread?
IF the catholic church recognizes baptism (valid baptism, with water and the use of proper formula an intention, ect and so on) from say a nice Lutheran like Jon, then if Jon does not have the exact same belief (but much closer than non lutheran non catholics do) why would anyone say such nonsense that he may not be a christian?
This is just too funny for words.
 
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