Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

If you have CAIS then let us know the issues you dealt with. If not then stop rescuing. Speak for yourself.

Why try to dictate to me what I can or can’t say about the thread topic?

I think it is important to discuss the injustice that would be done to transgender people’s relationships if the Vatican ever made an official public policy that said gender transition is not valid.

I am troubled by dysfunctional behavior that transgenders exhibit and in this context unless you are CAIS there can be no discussion.

Imagine a Scottish man, wearing a kilt, red beard, red hair, a burly man, a man that knows he is a man…and hear him say this…

“Hoot man…speak for yourself”…

A transgendered man having a relationship with a man is in a gay relationship according to the OHCAC.

Mmmmkay…

 

[Viviphilia]

…

A poster upthread said you don’t have objectivity. He is correct.

Less ad hominems, more responding to my post.

Truth is you are the angry one. In fact, the abstract by Dr. Fitzgibbons in my post listed excessive anger, among other unresolved issues, associated witt transgender individuals.
’

Nope, I’m not angry. I’m disappointed that you were unable to respond to my post.

 

[CopticChristian]

Oh, I can see that having to hold in the hatred you felt for that person must have been a challenge. I’m glad you feel comfortable venting your hatred on me, since I’m used to dealing with that kind of bad behavior.

Why do you consider it nonsense to construct a new uterus for someone? Or is it that you merely hate the idea that a trans woman might actually be able to fulfill the Catholic criteria for being married one day?

Viv,

I hate no one. I was sad for this poor man that was clearly delusional. You are delusional to think that a uterus could be reconstructed de novo. A trans/woman/man would need ovaries, fimbria and a regulated cycle. I used to marvel at the miracles of medicine however you may want to visit the Ob-Gyn literature for the success in salvaging the ovarian/fallopian/uterine structures destroyed by disease. This is pure delusion. Go spend some time on the NIH website and see how much literature you can find on this insanity.

Reality. Transgender man having a relationship with a man is gay.

 

[Viviphilia]

I don’t like to pull rank. We are not intellectual equals. If you went to Medical School then we are colleagues and this discussion would not be this bantering gibberish you produce. I have been as kind as I can be in consideration of your ignorance, agenda, bias and inabililty to separate real problems from yours.

You are a man. You believe you are a woman. You have no need to see an Endocrinologist. You have no need to see a Surgeon. You have no need. You desire. You want. This is very different for the genetic and endocrine anomalies. You discredit their suffering by trying to lump yourself in with them and this is nothing more than an exhibit of your lack of understanding of what a Physician sees. We don’t lump things together like this. We think Taxonomically…kind of like Aquinas. It clarifies thinking.

Someone is Short of Breath. If I give them fluid and they have asthma that is OK. If I give them fluid and they have CHF I kill them. But hey they are both short of breath. They all get oxygen, they all get an intravenous. The Asthmatic wheezes. The CHF wheezes. The asthmatic gets brohchodilators and antibiotics. The CHF gets lasix, a diuretic and possibly digitalis. Yet they both wheeze. They are not the same.

You don’t understand that the mind of a Physician is geared towards what is called differential diagnosis. If someone shows up with a female phenotype that don’t work, then the gears go into motion as to what the diagnosis is. It isn’t this, it isnt that, and if we do this test it is that but not this. We don’t think like you are presenting your information. We think to distinguish and clarify to provide a solution. You present a hodge podge of information suggesting that it is all the same. Sorry Mr. your thinking is not consistent with clarity.

Stop trying to practice what you do not know, particularly by attempting to synthesize information about medical diseases that do not correlate with the OP that asked about transgendered having a gay relationship. This is the issue.

The word “transgender” is an umbrella term which contains many gender and sex variant type disorders. All of the disorders which I have mentioned fall under the category of transgender. The relationships of all such people who suffer form gender and sex disorders could potentially be effected if the Vatican actually had a public policy of denying the validity of gender transition. Thankfully, they have no such public policy. No doubt because they are wise and choose to refrain from expressing hatred towards transgender folks. I hope you’re feeling better after venting so much of your own hatred of transgender people.

 

[CopticChristian]

The word “transgender” is an umbrella term which contains many gender and sex variant type disorders. All of the disorders which I have mentioned fall under the category of transgender. The relationships of all such people who suffer form gender and sex disorders could potentially be effected if the Vatican actually had a public policy of denying the validity of gender transition. Thankfully, they have no such public policy. No doubt because they are wise and choose to refrain from expressing hatred towards transgender folks. I hope you’re feeling better after venting so much of your own hatred of transgender people.

Viv,

This is the Catholic Answer Forum. Church of Christ people speak for the Church of Christ. Mormons speak for Mormons. Are you a designated spoke person for all transgender or just yourself. If you have been appointed let us know otherwise speak for the fact that you are a man and the OP has asked about transgendered/gay relationship. Mentioning the issue of transgender as an umbrella to let us know that it exists is one thing. To continually warp the thread as if that is the issue is dysfunctional. Give it some rest.

By the way I did find this…your fantasy is not uncommon…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128292

Hum Reprod. 2012 Feb;27(2):483-7. Epub 2011 Nov 28.

Reproductive wish in transsexual men.

Wierckx K, Van Caenegem E, Pennings G, Elaut E, Dedecker D, Van de Peer F, Weyers S, De Sutter P, T’Sjoen G.

SourceDepartment of Endocrinology, University Hospital Ghent, De Pintelaan 185, Ghent 9000, Belgium. katrien.wierckx@ugent.be

Get real, man…

 

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

I hate no one. I was sad for this poor man that was clearly delusional. You are delusional to think that a uterus could be reconstructed de novo. A trans/woman/man would need ovaries, fimbria and a regulated cycle. I used to marvel at the miracles of medicine however you may want to visit the Ob-Gyn literature for the success in salvaging the ovarian/fallopian/uterine structures destroyed by disease. This is pure delusion. Go spend some time on the NIH website and see how much literature you can find on this insanity.

Reality. Transgender man having a reltionship with a man is gay.

If you hate no one, why are you expressing such hatred towards me? Why did you relate that story of your contempt for your “patient?” You could have told a story about how you expressed sympathy for her, but instead you related your condescension.

You’re once again showing your misunderstanding of the word delusion. I don’t have have a strongly held belief against evidence that a uterus can be constructed de novo. I think merely think it is a realistic possibility given the rapid development of technology in designer organ development. You’ve certainly provided no evidence that it is impossible. And no, your status as a random internet forum poster do not count as any kind of professional qualification for your opinion. :nope:

 

[CopticChristian]

If you hate no one, why are you expressing such hatred towards me? Why did you relate that story of your contempt for your “patient?” You could have told a story about how you expressed sympathy for her, but instead you related your condescension.

You’re once again showing your misunderstanding of the word delusion. I don’t have have a strongly held belief against evidence that a uterus can be constructed de novo. I think merely think it is a realistic possibility given the rapid development of technology in designer organ development. You’ve certainly provided no evidence that it is impossible. And no, your status as a random internet forum poster do not count as any kind of professional qualification for your opinion. :nope:

Viv,

I am human. Can you imagine for a moment Ron Howards brother in drag telling you that his therapist thought he could look like Julia Roberts? I can take a cleft lip and make it look good, I can make a breast out of abdominal skin, I can make a thumb out of a toe, I can reconstruct a jaw with iliac bone and more, but Ron Howards brother to Julia Roberts. I felt sorry for the dude.

Now humor me and all the others. Point me in the direction of where I can read about and discuss “designer organs”. Certainly that would revolutionize Heart Transplant, Kidney Transplant, Liver Transplant Surgery and of course reimplantation. Let me know where this information exists. Show me one functioning Kidney, Lung, Liver, Heart that was designed.

In the meantime Ron Howard’s brother in drag having a relationship with a man would be gay.

 

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

This is the Catholic Answer Forum. Church of Christ people speak for the Church of Christ. Mormons speak for Mormons. Are you a designated spoke person for all transgender or just yourself. If you have been appointed let us know otherwise speak for the fact that you are a man and the OP has asked about transgendered/gay relationship. Mentioning the issue of transgender as an umbrella to let us know that it exists is one thing. To continually warp the thread as if that is the issue is dysfunctional. Give it some rest.

Understanding relationships of transgender people requires understanding the transgender phenomena. That’s where my efforts have been directed. Your constant hatred of people who are transgender does not help anyone to understand the thread. All your hatred is doing is spreading chaos.

By the way I did find this…your fantasy is not uncommon…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128292

Hum Reprod. 2012 Feb;27(2):483-7. Epub 2011 Nov 28.

Reproductive wish in transsexual men.

Wierckx K, Van Caenegem E, Pennings G, Elaut E, Dedecker D, Van de Peer F, Weyers S, De Sutter P, T’Sjoen G.

SourceDepartment of Endocrinology, University Hospital Ghent, De Pintelaan 185, Ghent 9000, Belgium. katrien.wierckx@ugent.be

Get real, man…

I’m not sure what you imagine I fantasize about.

 

[CopticChristian]

Understanding relationships of transgender people requires understanding the transgender phenomena. That’s where my efforts have been directed. Your constant hatred of people who are transgender does not help anyone to understand the thread. All your hatred is doing is spreading chaos.

I’m not sure what you imagine I fantasize about.

Viv,

I wish I could say thus spoke Zarathustra…but thus spoke Viv

I said…

Quote:
The neovagina serves no purpose in this system and I wouldn’t hold your breath for a neouterus.

Thus spoke Viv post 186

I don’t need to hold my breath for the development of a neouterus because developments in designer organs are being made at an excellent rate. My guess would be less than ten years. And no, I’m not interested in your opinion on my prediction.

Hold your breath…not in your lifetime…

Transgender man having a relationship with a man is gay.

 

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

I am human. Can you imagine for a moment Ron Howards brother in drag telling you that his therapist thought he could look like Julia Roberts? I can take a cleft lip and make it look good, I can make a breast out of abdominal skin, I can make a thumb out of a toe, I can reconstruct a jaw with iliac bone and more, but Ron Howards brother to Julia Roberts. I felt sorry for the dude.

Now humor me and all the others. Point me in the direction of where I can read about and discuss “designer organs”. Certainly that would revolutionize Heart Transplant, Kidney Transplant, Liver Transplant Surgery and of course reimplantation. Let me know where this information exists. Show me one functioning Kidney, Lung, Liver, Heart that was designed.

In the meantime Ron Howard’s brother in drag having a relationship with a man would be gay.

Your hatred of the person you’re talking about is apparent in your gratuitous condescension of her appearance.

There is an abundance of information about designer organs online. I am not aware of any specific research on designing a uterus, however, I feel optimistic about the possibility. The study you cited mentioned the possibility of technology which would make it possible for an FtM transsexual to reproduce with his own genetic material. Thanks for providing me with more hope than I already had.

 

[CopticChristian]

Your hatred of the person you’re talking about is apparent in your gratuitous condescension of her appearance.

There is an abundance of information about designer organs online. I am not aware of any specific research on designing a uterus, however, I feel optimistic about the possibility. The study you cited mentioned the possibility of allowing an FtM transsexual to reproduce with his own genetic material. Thanks for providing me with more hope than I already had.

Viv,

That would not be naturally. As a Physician I understand that. Show me some link online that is fact and not fantasy. If you cannot do that then recoil all your thinking to fantasy.

It reminds me of a song

youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k

that won’t get you what you want…a transgender man having a relationship with a man is gay.

There is hope “I feel optimistic about the possibility” means that there is some reality based thinking going on. When someone says they know that is fact. When someone says they believe that means they have some reality involved and when someone says they fell well then we have the reality right there.

 

[Viviphilia]

Hold your breath…not in your lifetime…

I personally don’t care, so I’m not sure why you think I’d hold my breath. I’m guessing it has to do with your obsession with making false assumptions about other people. I hope the technology is developed for the many transgender people who want to reproduce. While I am confident that it will occur in my lifetime, I can’t really say the same about your lifetime.

 

[CopticChristian]

I personally don’t care, so I’m not sure why you think I’d hold my breath. I’m guessing it has to do with your obsession with making false assumptions about other people. I** hope **the technology is developed for the many transgender people who want to reproduce. While I am confident that it will occur in my lifetime, I can’t really say the same about your lifetime.

Viv,

Finally. You have struck the chord of reality. Without hope none can survive. Our Pope as you know wrote saved in Hope and equates Hope to Faith. With Faith and Hope you are on the right track. Bless you. I am pleased to see your mind embrace Hope. You may want to read Victor Frankl, Logotherapy…it is all about Hope…but recall that the greatest of these is Love…and love endures forever and the only thing that endures forever is God and God is Love…Truths can never change because they come from God and for you I would pray you seek the splendor of the Truth…otherwise known as

Veritatis Splendor…John Paul II. Read it…Learn from it…

No one can speak about anyone’s lifetime, now can we…

 

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

That would not be naturally. As a Physician I understand that. Show me some link online that is fact and not fantasy. If you cannot do that then recoil all your thinking to fantasy.

It reminds me of a song

youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k

that won’t get you what you want…a transgender man having a relationship with a man is gay.

There is hope “I feel optimistic about the possibility” means that there is some reality based thinking going on. When someone says they know that is fact. When someone says they believe that means they have some reality involved and when someone says they fell well then we have the reality right there.

So, no more pretending that you feel sorry for the person you were talking about?

Here, let me google that for you.

Does it please you to attempt to crush hope? Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone who could reproduce were able to do so - especially within the context of Catholic relationships?

 

[CopticChristian]

So, no more pretending that you feel sorry for the person you were talking about?

Here, let me google that for you.

Does it please you to attempt to crush hope? Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone who could reproduce were able to do so - especially within the context of Catholic relationships?

Viv,

It is a shame…the notion of designer organs is not organs out of nothing.

newscientist.com/article/mg14319331.200-designer-organ-row-over-baboon-that-died-.html

These are attempts. You may not be familiar with, may not have taken part in, experienced what is called “Transplant Surgery”. This notion of designer organs is right of the history of organ transplantation.

Now you have no idea what it is like to see someone undergo a transplant, reject a transplant, have a transplant fail. These surgeries are undertaken for “life threatening” problems. Your translating this idea into a usable female organ is far fetched.

If there was such a thing as a uterine/fallopian tube/ovarian transplant…there would have to be a necessity. The arguments would go like this. It is safer to adopt, safer to in vitro fertilize. You have no idea how sick and miserable these transplant patients are. They are married to medication and the hospital.

Please dismiss this fantasy of a designer uterus/fallopian tube/ovarian complex from your transgendered mind…not only not in this lifetime…not as long as we have an immune system that needs suppression. If thinking you are a woman while looking in a mirror do yourself a favor and give this thought up. This is pure fantasy.

wish you well

 

[Viviphilia]

No one can speak about anyone’s lifetime, now can we…

Here is what you said in post 205

Hold your breath…not in your lifetime…

I can see that you rarely read what I actually write, but do you even read your own writing?

I think we can say things about our lifetimes. For example, I feel optimistic that in my lifetime, the Vatican will release a public statement on transgender people. And I feel optimistic that it will validate the scientific reality that transitioning is a valid medical therapy for transgender people. That will certainly aid transgender people in their relationships, don’t you agree?

 

[Viviphilia]

Viv,

It is a shame…the notion of designer organs is not organs out of nothing.

newscientist.com/article/mg14319331.200-designer-organ-row-over-baboon-that-died-.html

These are attempts. You may not be familiar with, may not have taken part in, experienced what is called “Transplant Surgery”. This notion of designer organs is right of the history of organ transplantation.

Now you have no idea what it is like to see someone undergo a transplant, reject a transplant, have a transplant fail. These surgeries are undertaken for “life threatening” problems. Your translating this idea into a usable female organ is far fetched.

If there was such a thing as a uterine/fallopian tube/ovarian transplant…there would have to be a necessity. The arguments would go like this. It is safer to adopt, safer to in vitro fertilize. You have no idea how sick and miserable these transplant patients are. They are married to medication and the hospital.

Please dismiss this fantasy of a designer uterus/fallopian tube/ovarian complex from your transgendered mind…not only not in this lifetime…not as long as we have an immune system that needs suppression. If thinking you are a woman while looking in a mirror do yourself a favor and give this thought up. This is pure fantasy.

wish you well

Such hatred and nastiness seems rather strange for someone who claims to be a Christian.

And a New Scientist article from 1994 from someone who claims to be a professional? Hmm, that seems a little fishy.

I don’t know why you’re talking about transplants when the technology for self-cloned organs already exists. Once the ability to create a self-cloned uterus is invented, which seems reasonably likely given the state of current technology, it should greatly aid transgender people in their relationships with others, don’t you think?

 

[CopticChristian]

Here is what you said in post 205

I can see that you rarely read what I actually write, but do you even read your own writing?

I think we can say things about our lifetimes. For example, I feel optimistic that in my lifetime, the Vatican will release a public statement on transgender people. And I feel optimistic that it will validate the scientific reality that transitioning is a valid medical therapy for transgender people. That will certainly aid transgender people in their relationships, don’t you agree?

Viv,

I pray for the Vatican to release a public statement that the OHCAC and the Eastern Orthodox have unified, with plans to unify the Oriental Orthodox. Probably not in my lifetime, however more likely than statements on transgenders and gays.

 

[CopticChristian]

Such hatred and nastiness seems rather strange for someone who claims to be a Christian.

And a New Scientist article from 1994 from someone who claims to be a professional? Hmm, that seems a little fishy.

I don’t know why you’re talking about transplants when the technology for self-cloned organs already exists. Once the ability to create a self-cloned uterus is invented, which seems reasonably likely given the state of current technology, it should greatly aid transgender people in their relationships with others, don’t you think?

Viv,

You are a man hoping, fantasizing about being a woman, fantasizing about cloning a uterus, and as it concerns transgenders I doubt it would aid anything. I see that you have a propensity to want to have the last word.

I rest my case. Transgender men having a relationship with a man is a gay man. The Vatican will not change this position.

 

[CopticChristian]

Here is what you said in post 205

I can see that you rarely read what I actually write, but do you even read your own writing?

I think we can say things about our lifetimes. For example, I feel optimistic that in my lifetime, the Vatican will release a public statement on transgender people. And I feel optimistic that it will validate the scientific reality that transitioning is a valid medical therapy for transgender people. That will certainly aid transgender people in their relationships, don’t you agree?

Viv,

You suffer from distortion, generalization and deletion. You do not understand the words you write. Concerning my lifetime in general you directed a statement about my lifetime. Concerning anyone’s lifetime there is not much to say. However the next statement has to do with things that will happen in time as it relates to our lifetime ie history, not personal and you parallel my thoughts as if they conflcit.

I can say in your life as you state it certain things are true. This is personal. What will happen to your life in general who knows.

I can say that in your lifetime…in other words as long as you live then that part of history is a time frame unrelated to what happens to you personally.

Please don’t frustrate your mind or my mind with your lack of understanding of semantics. On the other hand cudos for seeing that you have mimiced my paralleling statements. NLP as you know is based on modeling excellence. Keep practicing.