Are we all the "offspring" of Mary? How do Protestants interpret this verse?

[CAS64]

Look, Catholics honor Mary as the Mother of Men, our mother. She conceived her Son by her own free consent. And by that consent she accepted Christ whole and entire, not only the physical Christ, but also the mystical Christ. And we are members of Christ, as St. Paul says, part of the mystical Christ. So we, too, were accepted by Mary, at the moment of the Incarnation, as her children, spiritual brothers of her Son. Her consent and acceptance of us was ratified, in the full realization of its burdens, at the foot of the cross, when she united her personal sorrow with the sufferings of her Son for our redemption. We owe Jesus to Mary; and so, indirectly, we owe the grace of the cross to her. This grace makes us children of God. So she is, indeed the spiritual Mother of all men.

Mary was chosen to be the mother of the incarnate Christ. God in the flesh. Jesus died for our sins and alone in him is our hopr for Salvation. As special as Mary was, she is not our mother and she does not play a role in our Salvation. Read your Bible.

 

[CAS64]

ufamtobie:
Cas64,

Of course Luke is before Acts. why do you have to lie and say that I said Luke was after Acts. Point to where I said Luke was after Acts?

Cas64, If you can put your hate aside for the Church and your dis-respect for the Blessed Mother Virgin Mary, for a minute or two, you will be able to learn that Virgin Mary’s name may have not been mentioned after Acts, However, (now here comes the Learning Part)
(Luke 1: 48) Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Cas64, what part of “ALL GENERATION SHALL CALL ME BLESSED” Don’t you understand?

Cas64, what does the bible verse above (Luke 1: 48) say to your heart? Again, here is Virgin Mary filled with the Holy Spirit saying: “All generation will call me blessed” This means that Virgin Mary’s name will carry on until the End of the World, far beyond Acts and we will also hear the Name of MARY in Heaven, and if one don’t hear the Name of Mary after this life time, then that one must be in hell.

Cas64, you yet have not told me how does it feel to be corrected by (Luke 1:48) And you still have not told me if you call Mary “blessed” or are you part of a Generation who disrespect (Luke 1: 48)?

I am part of that GENERATION that Calls MARY BLESSED, the question is are you part of that generation, if not then you should be worried.

Ufamtobie

Look, this is pretty nasty and uncharitable. I simply called you out on what you said. You are trying to be intimidating here and I’m having none of it.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

It proves much my friend. Jesus’ name doesn’t stop does it?

What does it prove?

Is there a verse in scripture which says “if a name stops after Acts it proves…”? Or is there somewhere in the Bible where it talks about how many times someone’s name is mentioned that it proves something?

I still fail to see what it proves other than that her name isn’t mentioned past acts… Which again is debatable.

God bless

 

[CAS64]

What does it prove?

Is there a verse in scripture which says “if a name stops after Acts it proves…”? Or is there somewhere in the Bible where it talks about how many times someone’s name is mentioned that it proves something?

I still fail to see what it proves other than that her name isn’t mentioned past acts… Which again is debatable.

God bless

If this truly is a real indication of your faith and not some display to try and prove a weak point here then I really feel sorry for you that you are so empty.

 

[CAS64]

I still fail to see what it proves other than that her name isn’t mentioned past acts… Which again is debatable.

God bless

It’s not debatable. Her name is not mentioned in Scripture anywhere beyond the Book of Acts, period. End of proven point.

 

[guanophore]

Yeah and how is it that you get Mary from all of this when Scripture never once mentions her name anywhere past the book of Acts?

The same way we “get” that Alpha and Omega means Jesus, even though that is not His name.

The Catholic Church wrote, compiled, organized and canonized the NT, CAS64. there is nothing in scripture that contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church. Any and all writings with anything contradictory were not included.

Luke is before the book of Acts, not after it. You really are a typical Catholic that doesn’t know the Bible. Geesh!

It is certainly a tragedy that so many Catholics do not know their scripture well. That aside, what he was doing was making the point that “all generations shall call me blessed” transcends the entire NT. Mary’s name has been blessed from before this was written, up until the present day.

It proves much my friend. Jesus’ name doesn’t stop does it?

No, it does not, and He is not separated from His Holy Mother. Neither is He separate from all those whom He has perfected forever.

What you are saying is “I have no need of a womb” in the body of Christ. How many other body parts have you tried to amputate from Christ? Hands? Eyes?

 

[guanophore]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of the incarnate Christ. God in the flesh. Jesus died for our sins and alone in him is our hopr for Salvation. As special as Mary was, she is not our mother and she does not play a role in our Salvation. Read your Bible.

It is always amazing for me to read comments like this. Jesus said that all who did the will of the father were His mother, brother, sister. He commended His mother because of her obedience, that is why she is our role model. She was the first Christian, and devoted her live entirely to Him from the moment of His conception in her womb to the foot of the cross, and then into the upper room. To say she had no role in our Salvation is to say that you really have little or no understanding about God’s plan of salvation at all!

He could have appeared on earth as a fully grown man. He chose to come as a baby, to suckle at her breast, to let her change His diapers and doctor his little scrapes and bruises. If she is good enough for the Son of God, how come she is not good enough for you?

If this truly is a real indication of your faith and not some display to try and prove a weak point here then I really feel sorry for you that you are so empty.

Your condescending and uncharitable attitude do not enhance the discussion. Why are you here?

It’s not debatable. Her name is not mentioned in Scripture anywhere beyond the Book of Acts, period. End of proven point.

Do I understand correctly that this is your “proof” that the woman who gives birth to the Savior of the World in Revelation cannot be Mary, because she is not named?

You seem to be suffering that all of Christian belief must be found explicitly in the scriptures. This is an error.

 

[Tomster]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of the incarnate Christ. God in the flesh. Jesus died for our sins and alone in him is our hopr for Salvation. As special as Mary was, she is not our mother and she does not play a role in our Salvation. Read your Bible.

Mary’s spiritual motherhood means that she has given us supernatural life just as truly as our mothers have given us natural life. What our mothers do for our natural life, Mary does in the supernatural order, nourishing, protecting, increasing, and developing our life so as to bring it to maturity.

We all understand the reality of natural life, for we see it, touch it, feel it, and perceive it in all our exterior and interior activities. It is identified, so to speak, with our ego, for we are conscious of our ego only to the extent that we know ourselves to be alive. It is a wonderful reality which is so dear to ourselves that, if need be, we would sacrifice all our other worldly goods, fortune, pleasures, and ambitions, in order to save it.

Parallel to this life, faith teaches us that there is for the Christian another life, called supernatural or spiritual, or the state of grace. But as this life cannot be seen, or touched, or known directly, to many Christians it seems something vague, ethereal, indefinite; something rather negative - the abscence of serious sin; or, if something positive, an external bond of friendship between the soul and God. And yet this supernatural life is a reality far superior to any other created reality, far superior even to this natural life which is so dear to us, for the martyrs have joyously sacrificed latter for it, and we, too, must ever be ready to lose our natural life rather than lose the state of grace; this superiority is especially evident when we consider that the Son of God became incarnate and sacrificed His life to merit this life of grace for us.

But what is this supernatural life, so imperceptible and yet so precious? It is nothing else than the very life of God, the very life of Christ in us. By it, St. Peter tells us, we become “partakers of the divine nature.” (2 Peter 1:4) And St. Paul writes: “It is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me.” (Galatians 2:20) And again: “For me to live is Chist.” (1 Corinthians 12, and elsewhere) In another place he teaches us that we form one body with Jesus Christ who is our head. (Phil. 1:21) Now, in a body, the same life animates the head and the members. Besides, even before Peter and Paul, Jesus Himself taught His disciples: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit.” (John 15:5) The same sap circulates in the trunk and in the branches; the same life circulates in Christ and in His disciples. And this participation in the infinite life, the eternal life of God, is communicated to us by Mary.

How does she communicate it to us?

We can answer in a word: Christ is our life. Mary has given us Christ. She has, therefore, given us our life.

Or, since it is by grace that we participate in the life of Christ, we can also say: grace is our supernatural life. Mary had merited for us and distributes to us all grace. Therefore, she gives us supernatural life.

 

[Tomster]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of the incarnate Christ. God in the flesh. Jesus died for our sins and alone in him is our hopr for Salvation. As special as Mary was, she is not our mother and she does not play a role in our Salvation. Read your Bible.

The Mother of God is also our Mother, for she is the Mother of the “whole Christ” - such is the eternal will of God. God did not decide by one decree that His Son was to become the Son of Mary, and then, by another decree, that He would become head of mankind, head of this Mystical Body which we form together with Him. By one and the same decree He decided that His Son was to become the Son of Mary, inorder that He might be the head of the human race. From the very first moment of her motherhood, Mary carried in her womb Christ united to all the members of His Mystical Body.

Already in the Virgin’s chaste womb, Christ joined to Himself a spiritual body formed of all those who were to believe in Him; and it can be said that, bearing Jesus in her womb, Mary also bore there all those whose life was included in that of the Savior.

 

[Tomster]

Mary was chosen to be the mother of the incarnate Christ. God in the flesh. Jesus died for our sins and alone in him is our hopr for Salvation. As special as Mary was, she is not our mother and she does not play a role in our Salvation. Read your Bible.

Non-Catholic Christians who have preserved their faith in the mystery of the Incarnation admit the divine maternity of Mary. Yet they are far from seeing in it, as we do, a source of incomparable privileges for Mary. For them, Mary was scarcely more than a physical instrument of the Incarnation; to become incarnate, the Word had to be born of a woman, but any other woman could have served the same purpose. It was undoubtedly a special distinction for her to be called to such a function; but that did not bring her any real merit (Protestantism denies merit anyway).

The attitude of Catholics and certain Christians within Orthodoxy is entirely different. In our eyes, Mary was chosen not as a physical instrument to accomplish a material work, but as the moral, conscious, and free instrument of a divine mystery; she was prepared, in her body, to form the body of Jesus (You might want to ask yourself, at this point, “How is original sin transmitted?”); and especially, in her soul, to become a worthy Mother of God.

 

[CAS64]

The Catholic Church wrote, compiled, organized and canonized the NT, CAS64. there is nothing in scripture that contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church. Any and all writings with anything contradictory were not included.

Really??? The Catholic church wrote the New Testament? Can you prove that?

 

[CAS64]

Non-Catholic Christians who have preserved their faith in the mystery of the Incarnation admit the divine maternity of Mary. Yet they are far from seeing in it, as we do, a source of incomparable privileges for Mary. For them, Mary was scarcely more than a physical instrument of the Incarnation; to become incarnate, the Word had to be born of a woman, but any other woman could have served the same purpose. It was undoubtedly a special distinction for her to be called to such a function; but that did not bring her any real merit (Protestantism denies merit anyway).

The attitude of Catholics and certain Christians within Orthodoxy is entirely different. In our eyes, Mary was chosen not as a physical instrument to accomplish a material work, but as the moral, conscious, and free instrument of a divine mystery; she was prepared, in her body, to form the body of Jesus (You might want to ask yourself, at this point, “How is original sin transmitted?”); and especially, in her soul, to become a worthy Mother of God.

What’s problematic here is that this is not supported by the Bible. Catholics often attempt to back up complicated, mind wrangling theology with very simplistic Bible verses and it doesn’t seem to hold up very well in the long debate. The Scriptures are pretty straight forward about who Mary was. I think that we should leave it at what we really know for sure and not semise.

 

[CAS64]

The Mother of God is also our Mother, for she is the Mother of the “whole Christ” - such is the eternal will of God. God did not decide by one decree that His Son was to become the Son of Mary, and then, by another decree, that He would become head of mankind, head of this Mystical Body which we form together with Him. By one and the same decree He decided that His Son was to become the Son of Mary, inorder that He might be the head of the human race. From the very first moment of her motherhood, Mary carried in her womb Christ united to all the members of His Mystical Body.

Already in the Virgin’s chaste womb, Christ joined to Himself a spiritual body formed of all those who were to believe in Him; and it can be said that, bearing Jesus in her womb, Mary also bore there all those whose life was included in that of the Savior.

Pardon me but this really is mental gymnastics without Biblical support.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

If this truly is a real indication of your faith and not some display to try and prove a weak point here then I really feel sorry for you that you are so empty.

Keep your pity, give me your answer… What does it prove?

God bless

 

[Tomster]

What’s problematic here is that this is not supported by the Bible. Catholics often attempt to back up complicated, mind wrangling theology with very simplistic Bible verses and it doesn’t seem to hold up very well in the long debate. The Scriptures are pretty straight forward about who Mary was. I think that we should leave it at what we really know for sure and not semise.

Actually what is problematic is your spin on Scriptures. And, yes, the Scriptures are pretty straight forward about who Mary is. She is “full of grace” for starters. If you had read my previous post carefully, you would have somewhat of a better understanding of what grace is. This we really know.

 

[Tomster]

Pardon me but this really is mental gymnastics without Biblical support.

I think I began to lay out the basis of the theology of the Mystical Body of Christ quite clearly for you - scripturally. If want to go any further, please, be my guest.

 

[CAS64]

I think I began to lay out the basis of the theology of the Mystical Body of Christ quite clearly for you - scripturally. If want to go any further, please, be my guest.

You already went way further than Scripture. That’s the whole problem.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

No how can we be We are the offspring of the church. There is no layered meaning to this verse as some may claim. The woman is strictly referring to the church which is the bride of Christ.

Not long ago, another Protestant poster made the very interesting suggestion that the woman of chapter 12 is the “city of God” seen “coming down from heaven” at the end of the book. STM this idea is elegant & simple & accounts for all the details To equate the woman with Mary just does not fit - the woman in 17 is not an individual person, but a place, so the woman of 12 is likely to be a place too. And the Marian interpretation mixes up personal details with allegory; it makes a mess of the text.​

 

[CAS64]

Actually what is problematic is your spin on Scriptures. And, yes, the Scriptures are pretty straight forward about who Mary is. She is “full of grace” for starters. If you had read my previous post carefully, you would have somewhat of a better understanding of what grace is. This we really know.

My Bible doesn’t say, “full of grace”. It says highly favoured. Now you’re probably going to tell me that I have a corrupted Protestant Bible. The nerve of you people.

 

[CAS64]

Mary’s spiritual motherhood means that she has given us supernatural life just as truly as our mothers have given us natural life. What our mothers do for our natural life, Mary does in the supernatural order, nourishing, protecting, increasing, and developing our life so as to bring it to maturity.

We all understand the reality of natural life, for we see it, touch it, feel it, and perceive it in all our exterior and interior activities. It is identified, so to speak, with our ego, for we are conscious of our ego only to the extent that we know ourselves to be alive. It is a wonderful reality which is so dear to ourselves that, if need be, we would sacrifice all our other worldly goods, fortune, pleasures, and ambitions, in order to save it.

Parallel to this life, faith teaches us that there is for the Christian another life, called supernatural or spiritual, or the state of grace. But as this life cannot be seen, or touched, or known directly, to many Christians it seems something vague, ethereal, indefinite; something rather negative - the abscence of serious sin; or, if something positive, an external bond of friendship between the soul and God. And yet this supernatural life is a reality far superior to any other created reality, far superior even to this natural life which is so dear to us, for the martyrs have joyously sacrificed latter for it, and we, too, must ever be ready to lose our natural life rather than lose the state of grace; this superiority is especially evident when we consider that the Son of God became incarnate and sacrificed His life to merit this life of grace for us.

But what is this supernatural life, so imperceptible and yet so precious? It is nothing else than the very life of God, the very life of Christ in us. By it, St. Peter tells us, we become “partakers of the divine nature.” (2 Peter 1:4) And St. Paul writes: “It is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me.” (Galatians 2:20) And again: “For me to live is Chist.” (1 Corinthians 12, and elsewhere) In another place he teaches us that we form one body with Jesus Christ who is our head. (Phil. 1:21) Now, in a body, the same life animates the head and the members. Besides, even before Peter and Paul, Jesus Himself taught His disciples: “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit.” (John 15:5) The same sap circulates in the trunk and in the branches; the same life circulates in Christ and in His disciples. And this participation in the infinite life, the eternal life of God, is communicated to us by Mary.

How does she communicate it to us?

We can answer in a word: Christ is our life. Mary has given us Christ. She has, therefore, given us our life.

Or, since it is by grace that we participate in the life of Christ, we can also say: grace is our supernatural life. Mary had merited for us and distributes to us all grace. Therefore, she gives us supernatural life.

Why the obsession with Mary? I could never understand why anyone would wish to be so pressed into anyone but Christ. Mary is a saint and foremost of all the saints. She is special, but she isn’t divine. Calling her all of these things raises her to divinity. I think you really want her to be something that she isn’t for God knows why. Listen, Mary of your church is NOT the Mary of the Scriptures as much as you want her to be. get a grip on Christ before its too late for you.