Are We Being Forced To Accept Homosexuality?

[pnewton]

Hi Steve.

I think there is a HUUUUGE difference between homosexuality and pedophilia and bestiality. You are comparing consensual sex between adults to sex with animals and children that are not in a position to consent to it.

But there is also a HUUUUGE similarity. Both are unnatural sex acts that have been condemned as mortal sin. In all three cases those that engage in those acts try to justify their behavior.

 

[stevegravy]

Hi Steve.

I think there is a HUUUUGE difference between homosexuality and pedophilia and bestiality. You are comparing consensual sex between adults to sex with animals and children that are not in a position to consent to it.

Best,
Leela

I didn’t make the equation I said, “My own opinion is at best gay sex can be equated to heterosexual adultery and fornication…. even if they “the heterosexuals” are committed couples but not sacramentally married.”

I also maybe badly wanted to make the point that once the understanding of the sacred is removed from any attempt to define marriage there is no limit to how debased you can go. Because logic and words mean nothing it is what the individual feels as right becomes the only controlling principle.

And as far as pedophilia is concerned just wait there is already movements underway for legalization. It just hasn’t caught any traction yet because of the resistance to homosexual marriage.

 

[buffalo]

Hi Steve.

I think there is a HUUUUGE difference between homosexuality and pedophilia and bestiality. You are comparing consensual sex between adults to sex with animals and children that are not in a position to consent to it.

Best,
Leela

Why is consent an issue? So, if two people consent to murdering each other it would be OK?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Truth is love. If you avoid one, you also avoid the other. If you are unwilling to embrace the truth as preserved in Scripture and not the lies about gays as found outside of it, then what do you think that says about your love towards your brother, especially if you claim to be a Christian? Jesus immortalized the command to love your brother AS YOU WOULD YOURSELF.

***Why would you want to commit sin? Why would you want your brother to do so? Loving your brother as you would yourself means doing all that you can to tell him that his behavior might cost him the eternal pains of hell. And you do all that you can to love him, show him love and compassion in all of the ways that will nourish his soul toward the light. It is not to tell him, “whatever makes you feel good is alright…because you are my brother and I do not want to upset you by telling you what Jesus said about your sin, and the loss of your immortal soul”.

There is no love in witholding the truth. There is no love in trying to change the truth to suit your purposes. It is impossible to change the TRUTH!!!

There are a number of places in the NT where Jesus went against something that others “felt” was good for themselves. He went against popular opinion…because HE is the Truth, Way and Life. And He came to bring us to Life by teaching us the Truth about the Way.
That is love. And that is what Jesus commanded us to do. You cannot change it simply by saying that I am wrong and you are right. The Catholic Church…which can show written geneology all the way back to Jesus…is there to tell us which of us is correct***.

He even regarded it as one of the two laws from which all the others rely. As a result, I am more compassionate towards the rights of individuals to live lives that are not stigmatized and misrepresented than the right of the “legitmate theological opinion”, to stigmatize, misrepresent, and lie about the lives of others. To do so, “classically” even, as you admit, behind the guise of religion and within the face of scriptural truths is indeed “hate”.

***Telling the TRUTH in a loving and compassionate way is never hate. It is not hate to tell a child that he cannot run in the street or he may get hit by a car. Yet, if the child wants to run out in the street, and I say this to him, he may consider what I say to be hateful. But, would that be the TRUTH?

It is the same thing as with homosexual actions, stealing, fornicating, abortion…anything that someone wants to do that is sinning.
And the world today would say that I am filled with hate toward homosexuals.
Nothing could be farther from the truth!
I am filled with love for those who are haunted by something sinful. And I feel the need to tell them the TRUTH so that they do not lose their souls.
For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet lose his soul?

Many people, to keep themselves from sin, must lead celibate lives. That’s the way it goes. And there are ways to help a person to do that so that it is easier. Don’t go to places where there will be many homosexuals around.

I am celibate. I was forced into a divorce, and I refuse to get an annullment because I don’t believe that when people take a vow, that it should be something that they can break.
So, I am forced into celibacy. Therefore, to keep myself from being tempted to fall into temptation, I do not go around places where there will be single people. You won’t find me in a bar. You won’t find me in a singles gathering at Church. I have a couple of people that I am close to, and it allows me to love many people and not be isolated…yet to not fall into temptation.

It is something you must train yourself to do. Just like when you walk into a convenience store that sells pornography behind the counter. You train your eyes to look away. When I see a gorgous man, I look away and make myself think of something totally different.
We all have to do that with all that we are tempted by. Homosexuality is no different.
They just want to treat it differently, and are demanding that we do the same thing.

Are they more lonely than I am? Well, I don’t have someone special to talk to as I wind down my day/ I don’t have someone to share my bed. I don’t have someone to cuddle with. I don’t have anyone to know in an intimate way. I don’t have anyone to love.
So, no, I am no different.

Actually, there is one difference between myself and those who cry for more acceptance of their lifestyle. I do not do that. I am accepting who and what I am, and I am living with it as best I can. Do I ever slip…YES!!! Do I want to consider that slip not a sin, or make others believe that it is good, and not a sin? NO!!!
That is the difference.

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And sadly, too many “Christians” are blinded by it.

 

[edwest2]

The only difference in people between now and the early 1960s is that people do not want to try to do better. Some don’t even know what “better” is. They have no guiding principle, no yard stick by which to gauge their activities.

It’s the old Hippie, Hey, whatever turns you on, man. Do your own thing. Whatever floats your boat. And John Lennon and Yoko Ono: Whatever gets you through the night, it’s all right, all right
Be it wrong or be it right, it’s all right, all right

Stop being a slave to your flesh.

Stop being a slave to your addictions.

Find out about right and wrong and don’t do wrong to yourself and others.

And when you do something wrong, don’t give up. Ask for forgiveness, stand up, and keep improving.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

“Homosexual acts”? I’m assumming you’re taking this general terminology to incude females as well. If so, then where in the OT does God address them?

Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
:ehh: :ehh: :ehh:

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

While you’re at it, do you mind posting the scriptures that promote slavery, head coverings for women, polygamy, interest free loans, and the idea that it’s okay to throw your daughters to an angry mob for appeasement, just to name a few.

***You are arguing against God the Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth. His laws.
Your argument with us is that we choose to obey His laws…and Live eternally rather than deny, disobey and disregard His laws…and condemn ourselves into eternal damnation.

---

And since your above post is your out-of context approach to scripture, then you won’t mind listing the scriptures to support the stipulations I provided either.

God’s laws on morality and purity never change. Whether you and every other person on the face of the earth think so or not, they will not change. And Jesus said that if there were no men on earth to worship Him, the rocks would do so in our stead.

But this is only the beginning. If you are willing to dig deeper, you’ll find that the scriptures you posted are not only out of context,

That is just wrong. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the one who wrote the Scriptures through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Which means that all written in the true versions, which do not care about being politically correct, are the True words of God. And Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the Guidance of the Roman Catholic Church for the past 2000 years. You might want to take a course in Bible history. Facts and 2000 years of evidence back up my statements. As a matter of fact, the OT wasn’t even put in book form until the Holy Spirit guided the Roman Catholic Church to put together that which HE wanted in the Bible.
Your argument is full of holes.

but in many translations are completly out of touch with the actual language they supposedly represent.

This, too is a fallacy. The Roman Catholic Church had the Hebrew (which was Aramaic) Latin, Aramaic, and Greek scrolls and letters in which to translate into what the Holy Spirit guided them to write.

Dig deeper still and you will find that the nature of the “anti-gay” lie as presented in the early Catholic wiritngs are embarassingly inconcistent with the present-day method used to maintain that same lie.

***What do you have to back up your statement? I cannot comment on the little bit of information you have given. I haven’t seen any inconsistencies that could make your words true. ***

You have bit off more than may be willing to chew. But nevertheless I will call you out on it every step of the way.

And the Roman Catholic Church can refute everything you bring up if it is not true. I have been able to do just that with everything you have spoken thus far.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Before his explaination let me first ask you. Just for the record, to whom or what do you attriburte your current understanding that Gen. 19:5 is a reference in support of the reasoning that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality.

Read the thread, and the answer to your question are in my earlier posts on this thread. We are asked not to repost things within the same thread.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

You accused someone else of being unbiblical, so where in the Bible do you get that scripture? Or that idea for that matter?

Rather, it is no act of love to confirm people in mortal sin while they head toward possible eternal damnation.

Excellent post. Thank you. I love to hear the TRUTH!!!

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Hi Jean8,

If we are to follow what the Bible teaches, I don’t think we as women even have a say in the matter or any matter…

1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.

Best,
Leela

Another perfect argument against women being priests!!! Thank you for printing this. It is great. It helps me more than ever to realize that which Christ’s Church teaches about women needing to submit. I am truly grateful that God made me a woman. It is a blessing untold that I am to submit, for it has helped me to learn to submit to God.
God made men different from women. And men, as the head of thier families (which is decreed by God) will have to be responsible for it. I am not an unwise person, but I can always see the greater Wisdom in God fearing men.
I feel lifted up in my submission to God.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Hi pnewton,

Your position is that woman are actually allowed to have a view on homosexuality so long as they keep silent in all ecclesial settings? That would be my position…and I am a woman who knows my worth to God. For He has allowed me to bear children which will grow to love Him. A woman, just like all lay men are to learn from the Church. It is not a position which brings any humiliation. Each has their place in God’s Church, and in His Life. And each has untold value and worth. I am not excuding homosexuals…for they too are created by God. But just like a child born with a handicap, they are not allowed to sin because of it.

It seems that if you take to heart what the Bible says on homosexulaity you should also take to heart what it says about other things? Just making sure you are consistent.

***Constistency is not a problem. You should however realize that as time has gone by, the Roman Catholic Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit into a more fullness of the Truth. What was a sin against body or soul is sin today and forever. Homosexual actions fall into that. But, compassion is a true way of loving and showing God’s Divine Mercy, without condoning homosexual actions…which are sin even if we are to love the sinner. We have the duty to make known God’s TRUTH and His Love. We have the obligation to let the world know that a sin is a sin is a sin is a sin is a sin. We cannot change what God has ordained. ***

Best,
Leela

 

[Leela]

Another perfect argument against women being priests!!! Thank you for printing this. It is great. It helps me more than ever to realize that which Christ’s Church teaches about women needing to submit. I am truly grateful that God made me a woman. It is a blessing untold that I am to submit, for it has helped me to learn to submit to God.
God made men different from women. And men, as the head of thier families (which is decreed by God) will have to be responsible for it. I am not an unwise person, but I can always see the greater Wisdom in God fearing men.
I feel lifted up in my submission to God.

Hi Jesus N Cherie,

I don’t know why I would listen to a woman who doesn’t think she herself should be taken seriously?

Best,
Leela

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Hi pnewton,

You are under no obligation to debate. I am just curious about why people think homosexuality is wrong. Your answer is quite clear. It is wrong for you because the Catechism says so. It must be nice not having to think?

***It is much better to believe that which Christ says and commands than to be out on a limb wondering if something is a sin or not. The only life that truly matters is the life of one’s soul. If you lose that, you lose all. This life is but a short amount of time. and even if you live to be 100 years old, the sex life isn’t 100 years. It is a horrible shame that people would trade all of eternity because they wanted a few short years of choosing sin.

There are many reasons, 2000 years worth, of why we believe what the Catechism teaches. If we want to follow Christ, we have a very clear way to do that in the Catechism. It is wonderful for most who care about their souls, and the love of Christ within our daily lives.***

enjoy your day,
Leela

 

[sodak]

Hi pnewton,

You are under no obligation to debate. I am just curious about why people think homosexuality is wrong. Your answer is quite clear. It is wrong for you because the Catechism says so. It must be nice not having to think?

enjoy your day,
Leela

Submission to God and his Church doesn’t imply not thinking. Another false accusation.

Excellent post. Thank you. I love to hear the TRUTH!!!

Right on!

Hi Jesus N Cherie,

I don’t know why I would listen to a woman who doesn’t think she herself should be taken seriously?

Best,
Leela

What are your qualifications that should impress us? Since you seem to be so adept at attacking people on this forum, perhaps you should establish your credentials first.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

My regrets but I have a rant…

Very interesting thread here but I think the larger point is being overlooked. Since the 1960’s maybe earlier there has been a strong determined effort to usurp traditional attitudes towards sex and marriage. Lets face it there had always been porn and if someone wanted it they could find it just like prostitution. However, following WWII there was an explosion of pornography because of cheaper mass production. Then came the porn creep into society with the constant pounding in the media and advertisement that there is a whole lot of fun to be had out there and you better get yours while the getting is good.

What has pornography to do with this discusion? This porn message hasn’t changed. It is simply anything that interferes with a person getting their orgasm at any time and anywhere is bad. It doesn’t matter whether it is male or female the other person is only your tool with little more significance then for masturbation purposes. Once they are no longer fun time to drop them and get another. Sit down and study the messages in the popular shows. This was first marketed to heterosexuals and still is but, now it is the homosexuals turn. Equating gay sex with heterosexual marital i.e. monogamous marital sex only demonstrates the superficial attitude this modern philosophy has regarding sex between two people. Marriage is more than sex it is more than relationship it is more than romance and more than just raising children. Once you take the sacramental aspect out of it you forfeit any means to prevent it from being redefined. Even primitive cultures have an understanding that what they call marriage is more than the sum of the parts even if they do not use Judeo-Christian terminology for it. Once the sacred mystery is removed anything goes.

My own opinion is at best gay sex can be equated to heterosexual adultery and fornication even if they are committed couples but not sacramentally married. If homosexuals living together and fornicating can be called a marriage then what logic is there prohibiting anything. Someone mentioned Broke Back Mountain well, you might as well re-shoot Broke Back Mountain and have the cowboy engage in bestiality and marriage can be with his horse. And why not, because maybe he has a bestiality gene or the dude was traumatized in the stable somewhere.

The point is once these opinion makers are done ramming homosexual right down everyone’s throat they will begin pushing for legalization of pedophilia by reducing the age of consent to may be 7. Not all at once but by gradual measures fist 14, then 12, 10 et cetera. Happy future isn’t it.

COME LORD JESUS !!!

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Why is consent an issue? So, if two people consent to murdering each other it would be OK?

Thank you for asking my question. Add to it, if two consenting adults take illegal drugs that make them go insane, is this okay? If two consenting adults choose to have sex in a public place, is that okay?

You could argue, no, that isn’t what you are saying because those things can impact others.

I agree. And so do the homosexual movements…especially for marriage. It is redefining marriage. It is being promoted in our schools. It is becoming a sin in society to call homosexual actions what they are…SIN!!!

 

[Leela]

Why is consent an issue? So, if two people consent to murdering each other it would be OK?

Hi Buffalo,

That would be very sad.

It is scary that you don’t think consent is important with regard to sexual relations? Are your neighbors aware?

Best,
Leela

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Hi Jesus N Cherie,

I don’t know why I would listen to a woman who doesn’t think she herself should be taken seriously?

Best,
Leela

***Leela, I recognize that I have infinite worth to Jesus. And I have infinite worth to my family and friends. I have infinite worth to my children. I have infinite worth to the Roman Catholic Church. I have infinite worth to society. That does not change who or what I am. I am a woman. I am not a man. I can never be a man…no matter how much I scream and rant and rave that I am a man, and should be treated as a man in every sense of the word. Rather, I have recognized my role as a woman, and it is infinitely valuable to God, Church, family and society as a whole. I am not threatened because God made man first, and that He has chosen man to be head of Church and households. Why spend time wishing for something which can never change rather than loving and appreciating the infinite value of what is, and your role in it? It is truly a shame that today’s society has made women hate being women. Jesus has a mother. And He loves Her with an indescribable love. She has worth. And so does every single human female.

I am not threatened in my worth by men. We are equal in worth and dignity. Yet we are different in responsibility and duty. That is God’s plan. And I love it.***

 

[edwest2]

That last paragraph was perfect. Men and women are equal in worth and dignity but different in duty and responsibility.

This is why all disordered sexual acts are outside of natural and supernatural law. Consent to do something disordered or evil opens the door to It’s All Good. This relativism, this embracing of the dark, destroys all it comes in contact with. First, the spirit is injured, along with the mind and body. Love is a mutual self-giving, not a purely selfish exploitation. Love is foundational while the temporary is always temporary.

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

Hi Buffalo,

That would be very sad.

It is scary that you don’t think consent is important with regard to sexual relations? Are your neighbors aware?

Best,
Leela

Is that what I implied? No.

I am making the point consent is not justification for something.