Are we Catholics too hard on the Protestants here?

[Malachi4U]

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?

Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible , but you know what I mean), etc…

Please pass on your thoughts.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?

Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible , but you know what I mean), etc…

Please pass on your thoughts.

On several thread I have read things that are very bias against other groups, sometimes protestants and other Muslims, but they were just blunt statements without reasons. I may not agree with some of the beleifs of protestants and Muslims, but I don’t strictly out them down , I try to talk and get some dialogue going. I will defend anything I beleive that I feel is threatened by another person’s post though. I haven’t heard a lot of things against people though, some here and there. I couldn’t open the link above, so I can’t say anything about it.

 

[Alfie]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

Can anyone be too harsh on someone who preaches Gods word in vain? On someone that misinterprets Gods word to fit their own “ME”-ology rather than Gods plan?

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair? Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair? Does he make a good case against Catholics?

Do we call Protestants things like “non-Christians” or “followers of the anti-Christ” or “unsaved” (OK, nobody is “saved” till Jesus does it upon our death per the Bible, well at least the King James Bible , but you know what I mean), etc…

Please pass on your thoughts.

What gets me is that the Catholics on this forum think that just because someone is Catholic that, that will be enough to get them into heaven. When I make comments about the Bible saying that few people will make it to heaven I get answers like “well no one knows for sure who will make it”. If the Bible states that most people will not make it to heaven than it is a safe bet to say that the majority of people from any Christian denomination won’t make it. You make a big deal over infant baptism. Why? When it is by “Faith” we are saved. The Bible can’t be any more clear about what saves someone. You are like the Jews… you have a form of godliness but deny the truth. In fact I think it was Mike Gendron who pointed out that there are 150 references in the Bible about Salvation through faith and only 3 that mention baptism… but given a choice most people will choose the Catholic religion over the truth which is is only natural… because it is a ruse.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I understand how you feel. There has been those that always have to get the last word in because they think that what they have to say is right and nothing else is. Anything outside Catholicism is ALL a heresy. Anyhow, that’s basically what I’ve been told.
It’s important to be open-minded and accept others for who they are and what they believe. You can’t shut someone off just because they don’t share the same beliefs. That’s being prejudice and narrow-minded. Not to mention that it makes that person look like a hypocrit.

 

[Della]

Alfie:

What gets me is that the Catholics on this forum think that just because someone is Catholic that, that will be enough to get them into heaven. When I make comments about the Bible saying that few people will make it to heaven I get answers like “well no one knows for sure who will make it”. If the Bible states that most people will not make it to heaven than it is a safe bet to say that the majority of people from any Christian denomination won’t make it.

I feel the need to point out that you have contradicted yourself here, but I do so understanding how we can write illogically in the heat of the moment. I certainly have done it, too.

Actually, Catholics don’t believe and never have believed that all Catholics will be saved. The very fact that we believe that no one can know for certain who will and who won’t be saved except God proves the point. What we do believe is that we have the moral certainly of salvation as promised to us by Christ and his Church.

You make a big deal over infant baptism. Why? When it is by “Faith” we are saved. The Bible can’t be any more clear about what saves someone. You are like the Jews… you have a form of godliness but deny the truth. In fact I think it was Mike Gendron who pointed out that there are 150 references in the Bible about Salvation through faith and only 3 that mention baptism… but given a choice most people will choose the Catholic religion over the truth which is is only natural… because it is a ruse.

Well, I’m afraid Mike Gedron has misunderstood the Catholic teaching on baptism. Baptism is only the beginning of the salvation process. It cleanses us of the stain of original sin, but after that it is up to us to live the life of Christ by faith, which is why Paul tells us that it is through faith that we are saved.

As to Catholics always being right, we aren’t. As an individual Catholic I can get many things wrong. I certainly have from time to time, as we all do. However, what we Catholics claim is that Christ’s Church, being the very Body of Christ, cannot contradict it’s Head in matter of faith and morals. Jesus promised that the Church he established would be “led into all by truth by the Holy Spirit.” We are simply bold enough to take him at his word.

 

[Della]

mrs_abbott:

I understand how you feel. There has been those that always have to get the last word in because they think that what they have to say is right and nothing else is. Anything outside Catholicism is ALL a heresy. Anyhow, that’s basically what I’ve been told.

Well, someone has told you wrong. The Catholic Church doesn’t and never has taught that everything Protestants believe is heresy. Most Protestant denominations and sects believe a great deal that the Catholic Church does, such as the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the necessity of faith for salvation, etc.

It’s important to be open-minded and accept others for who they are and what they believe. You can’t shut someone off just because they don’t share the same beliefs. That’s being prejudice and narrow-minded. Not to mention that it makes that person look like a hypocrit.

I understand what you mean, but I think I would use the word “fair-minded” rather than “open-minded” in describing how we can have fruitful dialogue. An open mind denotes one that is empty of anything of its own while being fair-minded denotes giving a fair hearing to other ideas. I’m certainly for being fair-minded, as I’m sure you are too.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

You think protestants are treated badly here try going to forums that are supposed to be “Christian” forums and then see what happens when they find out you are Catholic. So I dont feel sorry for anything protestants go through in a Catholic forum after how I was treated in a “christian” forum.

Cough* Crosswalk.com *Cough

 

[bengal_fan]

Alfie:

…You make a big deal over infant baptism. Why? When it is by “Faith” we are saved. The Bible can’t be any more clear about what saves someone…

actually, not to nitpick here, but it is by “grace” we are saved…through faith (Eph. 2:8-9). and that faith is only a “saving” faith or true faith if it is accompanied by works (James). so the Bible is clear that it is only the grace of God that saves us…not our faith, not our works, but His grace alone. we get that grace by having faith and doing works, but neither of those alone (or together) without the grace of God saves us or we would just be saving ourselves.

 

[Alfie]

bengal_fan:

actually, not to nitpick here, but it is by “grace” we are saved…through faith (Eph. 2:8-9). and that faith is only a “saving” faith or true faith if it is accompanied by works (James). so the Bible is clear that it is only the grace of God that saves us…not our faith, not our works, but His grace alone. we get that grace by having faith and doing works, but neither of those alone (or together) without the grace of God saves us or we would just be saving ourselves.

But when Catholics talk about works they are talking about going to mass, reciting the rosary, confession, etc. For a protestant works mean spreading the word, helping poor people, etc. It is not about preforming rituals like the Jews did. The Jews thought they were saved through the bloodline of Abraham. Works are the evidence that someone is saved and works are how you will be rewarded in heaven. If a saved person doesn’t preform works he can still make it to heaven but he will not receive as great of a reward like those people that have done a great deal of works.

What I can’t understand is why some Catholics are so excited because someone converts to Catholicism. I am a Methodist but I do not have that loyalty to the Methodist church like a Catholic does to his church. I do not care what denomination a person comes from as long as they are saved. Any real believer is a part of the body of Christ and that does include Catholics who understand what the real meaning of being “born again” is.

 

[Alfie]

Roman_Catholic:

You think protestants are treated badly here try going to forums that are supposed to be “Christian” forums and then see what happens when they find out you are Catholic. So I dont feel sorry for anything protestants go through in a Catholic forum after how I was treated in a “christian” forum.

Cough* Crosswalk.com *Cough

I do not think I have been treated unfairly on this forum. I came on a little too strongly when I first began posting here and it offended some of the Catholics. There are a lot of passionate people on this forum who have strong beliefs about their faith, but I also feel strongly about my beliefs even though I am not particulary knowledgable or articulate in my writings.

 

[NiceFundamental]

Alfie:

Any real believer is a part of the body of Christ and that does include Catholics who understand what the real meaning of being “born again” is.

Or to experience a real rebirth, a regeneration. It is hard to explain, unless you have experienced it.

 

[Contarini]

Malachi4U:

I repeatedly read from Protestants who come to this forum and explain how Catholics here are too unfair or harsh on criticism of their Protestant beliefs - whatever they may be depending on the direction of the wind that day. (OK, I rest my point. I can be guilty of it too? )

Do you think we are fair to Protestants? Too easy on them? Too harsh on them? Should we sit by while anti-Catholics lie about Jesus’ body here on earth, His Catholic Church?

This is just plain silly. Do you really intend this to be a serious question? Can’t you distinguish between correcting misrepresentations and attacking Protestantism? Don’t you see a distinction between explaining how Gendron or White or whoever has misunderstood Catholicism and engaging in personal attacks on Luther to try to convince Protestants that Luther was a rotten person? (Let’s set aside for the moment the question of whether or not these attacks are merited. The point is that this goes *way *beyond refuting misrepresentations, and it’s this kind of thing that Protestants object to.)

Here is a link to an audio by Mike Gendron. He is an ex-Catholic who speaks out on the evils of the Roman Catholic Anti-Christian Cult. Click here for Mike Gendrons mp3 file links

, they are at the top of the page. Is he too harsh or unfair?

Of course he is. He’s a bigoted blowhard who has nothing of value to say about Catholicism. Why would you compare yourself to him or try to justify imitating him?

Do we just sit by and let him lie and mislead sheep out of the flock Jesus protects? Do you think anyone in his audience would correct him of his errors or just support it and spread it as if truth? Compared to him and others that target Catholics are we fair?

Depends on who “we” are. On the whole this board is much fairer and kinder to Protestants than boards associated with people like Gendron. But there are individuals here who are every bit as bigoted as Gendron.

“Fair” is not a matter of comparison. You should not compare yourself with silly and bigoted people, but with the truth.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Alfie:

What I can’t understand is why some Catholics are so excited because someone converts to Catholicism. I am a Methodist but I do not have that loyalty to the Methodist church like a Catholic does to his church.

And from a purely neutral, secular perspective, that’s one of the reasons Methodism is losing members fast. In the 19th century, when Methodism was the largest Protestant denomination in the country, Methodists wrote hymns about how much better they were than other Christians. I think that your attitude is far more just and reasonable and Christian than that of our spiritual ancestors (I come from a Methodist background myself and currently attend both an Episcopal and a Methodist congregation–my wife is an ordained UMC deacon). But that’s because Methodism quite obviously is not THE Church. Catholicism claims to be THE Church, or more precisely that the Church subsists in Catholicism (i.e., that Catholicism embodies the reality of the Church and other Christian communions only do so in an imperfect manner). Whether or not that claim is true, it’s a reasonable one (as is the similar claim made by the Orthodox.)

Methodists do not claim for Methodism what Catholics claim for Catholicism.

I do not care what denomination a person comes from as long as they are saved. Any real believer is a part of the body of Christ and that does include Catholics who understand what the real meaning of being “born again” is.

But this position risks making the Church simply an aggregate of individuals. If we really believe that the Church is a Body, then we must believe that the Church is greater than the sum of her parts. To borrow a metaphor from biology, your view of the Church appears to be a colonial rather than a truly multicellular organism. (I hope I remember my terminology correctly–it’s been a long time since I studied biology!)

Edwin

 

[Hegesippus]

Alfie:

But when Catholics talk about works they are talking about going to mass, reciting the rosary, confession, etc. For a protestant works mean spreading the word, helping poor people, etc. It is not about preforming rituals like the Jews did. The Jews thought they were saved through the bloodline of Abraham. Works are the evidence that someone is saved and works are how you will be rewarded in heaven. If a saved person doesn’t preform works he can still make it to heaven but he will not receive as great of a reward like those people that have done a great deal of works.

What I can’t understand is why some Catholics are so excited because someone converts to Catholicism. I am a Methodist but I do not have that loyalty to the Methodist church like a Catholic does to his church. I do not care what denomination a person comes from as long as they are saved. Any real believer is a part of the body of Christ and that does include Catholics who understand what the real meaning of being “born again” is.

When Catholics talk about good works, attending Mass and reciting the Rosary, this is not what we are talking about. Attending Mass is not a good work simply because we should be moved out of love for God to attend Mass and to recieve the many graces that come with it (Recieving our spiritual food) and we do not recite the rosary to achive a good work, but rather say it to honor our Lady which will bring us closer to our Lord. Good works is loving your neighbor as yourself and doing works for your fellow brethern out of love for God.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I myself have not felt as if I have been treated unfairly on this site. The moderators are awesome and for the most part the posters on here are pleasant and informative. There have been a few run-ins with some very passionate catholics on this site who, and don’t get me wrong I am not say ALL catholics, seem a bit stuck up and can’t seem to apply God’s love to all of those who seek Him.

But I do think that on either side we need to stop whining about being beat up on in this or that forum. Who cares? I would venture to say that there are just as many anti-protestants as there are anti-catholics out there. The catholics and protestants need to stop yelling about who has been the group most beat up on… I think the Jewish nation has that one in the bag. Stop the ‘oh poor me’ and move on. The only way you are going to change someone’s mind is not by harping on them or whining about it. It’s just to live your life out by example and hope that you touch those you come in contact with. Answer questions with a cool head and a thought out response without trying to make the other side feel stupid (because this gets you nowhere) and you may begin to see a difference. Why do you think that some sites react to catholics the way they do… because, as our societies stand right now, mixing protestants with catholics can become a volitile combination and a lot of sites just don’t want to deal with it. So they squash that as soon as it comes up. shrug I can understand this thought process since I have my own site and am glad that those who are on there aren’t looking for fights BUT a lot of those who hop on a board that is of opposite thinking of their own are looking for trouble and not just seeking answers.

 

[aurora77]

Religion is a touchy subject. Everyone should be passionate about their faith and their Church, and when people disagree about something they care so much about, feelings can get hurt. It’s a personal issue, and as such, disagreements can be taken personally. I would suggest that any protestant posting here needs to have a thick skin; as a Catholic forum, there aren’t going to be tons of people ready to agree to protestant ideas. But, we Catholics have an obligation to be polite to the protestants here. We can disagree on our religions, but not be rude about it.

 

[Alfie]

Hegesippus:

When Catholics talk about good works, attending Mass and reciting the Rosary, this is not what we are talking about. Attending Mass is not a good work simply because we should be moved out of love for God to attend Mass and to recieve the many graces that come with it (Recieving our spiritual food) and we do not recite the rosary to achive a good work, but rather say it to honor our Lady which will bring us closer to our Lord. Good works is loving your neighbor as yourself and doing works for your fellow brethern out of love for God.

But the more times you go to mass the shorter time you will spend in purgatory…right? If so, than that is works.

 

[Hegesippus]

Alfie:

But the more times you go to mass the shorter time you will spend in purgatory…right? If so, than that is works.

Wow, this is a sad understanding of true Catholicism. This is simply a false understanding and completely not true.

 

[Hegesippus]

No matter how many times one would go to Mass, if one is not a Christian (I mean someone on fire with the love of Christ) outstide of Mass, I do not think this person has much hope of eternal salvation.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Alfie:

But the more times you go to mass the shorter time you will spend in purgatory…right? If so, than that is works.

Alfie, that’s just not funny. I have 55 hours (semester hours in history) and I am an anthropolgy major… I’m not even talking about my faith. From history alone, I could argue against the majority of protestant theology. History. Not sola scriptura, not the Catechism of the Catholic Church. History. Plain and simple. Your knowledge, it would seem to me, of history or of the teachings of HMC is lacking. My wife and I are college educated and RCs. DW teaches at a local univeristy. Imagine her surprise when she was told that the local preacher at the non-denominational church in the town in which we live was preaching against her because-Catholics ar witches. I’m not making this up. We are witches because we have devotive candles in our bedroom.

You tell me. We have two college educated Catholic people who are accused of witchcraft…and yet we are supposed to believe that protestants are abused here.? Sorry, nope, not going to go there.