Are we not preaching enough about God's wrath, vengeance, etc.?

[CatholicZ09]

It seems as if the mantra these days is “God loves everyone”. While that is not necessarily false, it is rather misleading. I do believe that God loves all His children; however, I also believe that God is one of vengeance, wrath, and anger as described in the Bible. The priest at my parish made a fine point that the majority of mankind sees God as a “lovable teddy bear” that just forgives people and forgets. Rather, God is also a father, and He chastises His children just like any other dad.

I don’t want to seem like one of the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but I do believe that God’s loving and forgiving side is preached more than His vengeful and angry side. Any thoughts?

 

[1newcatholic]

It seems as if the mantra these days is “God loves everyone”. While that is not necessarily false, it is rather misleading. I do believe that God loves all His children; however, I also believe that God is one of vengeance, wrath, and anger as described in the Bible. The priest at my parish made a fine point that the majority of mankind sees God as a “lovable teddy bear” that just forgives people and forgets. Rather, God is also a father, and He chastises His children just like any other dad.

I don’t want to seem like one of the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but I do believe that God’s loving and forgiving side is preached more than His vengeful and angry side. Any thoughts?

Most people don’t even take hellfire seriously anymore. What’s the point of trying to scare people into good behavior when they don’t believe your threats? Maybe it is good to emphasize the positive when people will only sneer at the negative. Maybe it’s okay to preach that God is love because God is love.

 

[JMartyr73340]

Most people don’t even take hellfire seriously anymore. What’s the point of trying to scare people into good behavior when they don’t believe your threats? Maybe it is good to emphasize the positive when people will only sneer at the negative. Maybe it’s okay to preach that God is love because God is love.

Cardinal George Pell was in a debate with Richard Dawkins. I think it’s on YouTube. Anyway, Dawkins quoted Karl Marx’s classic line that “religion is the opiate of the masses”. Cardinal Pell replied, “The new opiate of the masses is this idea that we will *not *be judged at the end of our life on how we lived.”

So true…

 

[Googler]

What did Jesus tell the people? “Who is My mother? Who is My brother? Who is My sister?”
“The one who does the will of My Father.”
The one whom God loves most is the one who does His will.
God loves everyone.
Does God love everyone equally? No.
And one reason of course is because God does not give His share in His own attributes equally to everyone.
God does not make any two human beings equally.
God loves us unequally because no two people respond to the grace they receive from God with equal generosity.

“EWTN is everywhere!”
Watch MARY OF NAZARETH, pt. 2
Film presentation on the Virgin Mary from her childhood through the Resurrection of Jesus, capturing the essence of her profound faith and trust in God. Part 2.
Saturday, 11/29 07:00 PM CST

 

[Sarcelle]

Cardinal George Pell was in a debate with Richard Dawkins. I think it’s on YouTube. Anyway, Dawkins quoted Karl Marx’s classic line that “religion is the opiate of the masses”. Cardinal Pell replied, “The new opiate of the masses is this idea that we will *not *be judged at the end of our life on how we lived.”

So true…

Denial is more than a river in Egypt.

God’s Anger and God’s Love are different sides of the same coin. It is precisely because He loves us that He cannot stand sin. Why? Because sin separates us from Him and any Lover who is separated from his Beloved gets angry.

Also our mistreatment of other humans gets Him angry. Why? Because He loves us all. In fact God so identifies with us that when we mistreat someone we mistreat God. (Got this idea from a homily I heard in Mass last week.)

 

[chataranga]

Greetings,
If you read some of the posts on these forums I think you’ll see that talk of god’s wrath or vengeance is still alive and well. Why else would people being posting is this, that or the other a sin? They are afraid of god. One person wanted to know if its okay to rake leaves on Sunday, another was asking about going to the airport. I for one could do with less talk of sin and more talk about being skillful or unskillful in our actions. I guess that is why I only go to ewtn and listen to the homilies a couple times a week and am trying to cut down on my caf time.
Having said that I really feel there are many folks here that have their act together spiritually (in my opinion) and are doing a wonderful job of tending the flock. Blessings to all-stay safe.

 

[Googler]

There are those whose utmost desire is to bring the countless lost poor souls to Christ. Perhaps here, the initial focus should be on our Saviour’s loving mercy rather than punishment for sin.
There are those who need to understand ‘the fear of the Lord’ as one of the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Fear of offending God strengthens our hope so that we avoid doing whatever might displease the Lord or separate us from Him. It gives us a profound reverence for the majesty of God.
The fear of offending God, the fear of displeasing God, even the fear of not pleasing God as much as we could is the foundation of all true worship of God in wisdom.
Everyone’s particular judgement is right around the corner. It’s very sad that many continually dismiss this fact. We are here to remind them. Somebody has to.
Saints count it a grace to die rather than commit one mortal sin, not fearing death because it ends our earthly exile and admits our souls into that eternal home which Christ has gone ahead to prepare for us.

 

[ChikaisHis]

I think it’s because it’s hard to understand God’s punishments if we don’t understand His love first. It’s easy I think to misunderstand both.

The words wrath and vengeance I think have connotations of vindictiveness that I think can lead to misunderstanding. I mean I wouldn’t describe the anger a father has for his child when the child disobeys him and gets hurt (playing on the street , touching the stove) as wrath, more anger and anguish out of love. And the punishment (getting hit by a car, burning ourselves, straining our relationship with the father) is a natural consequence of the sin- I think the word wrath would not give it the same connotation,

Denial is more than a river in Egypt.

God’s Anger and God’s Love are different sides of the same coin. It is precisely because He loves us that He cannot stand sin. Why? Because sin separates us from Him and any Lover who is separated from his Beloved gets angry.

 

[Tesseract]

There are those whose utmost desire is to bring the countless lost poor souls to Christ. Perhaps here, the initial focus should be on our Saviour’s loving mercy rather than punishment for sin.

This is very true if someone does not know Christ. God led the Israelites out of Egypt before they could receive the Law. It is the same with lost poor souls who do not know Christ.

However, confirmed Catholics should not be fed spiritual pablum. Our priest spoke today in his homily of the importance of remaining in grace, of frequent confession to avoid Hell, of obtaining indulgences to avoid/limit our time in Purgatory, of the importance of praying for the holy souls in Purgatory and of avoiding the sin of presumption (assuming that the dead are in Heaven). He specifically asked that we do not assume his canonization upon his death, but to offer prayers and Masses for him after he has departed from this life. It was a very good homily to begin the liturgical new year.

 

[Googler]

Horrah for your priest! I think those things should be pounded in the consciences of the faithful over and over. Why it’s rare today, I don’t know. But it’s entirely crucial.
Our homily was emphasizing ‘waiting on the Lord’. Father gave a list and examples of what we could do in the moments of the day when we have spare time. Instead of selfish things we could be connecting and growing closer to God.
Would this be spiritual pablum, since it does not involve ’the fear of the Lord’? Or what would you call it?

 

[Nelka]

God does love everyone but that doesn’t mean that He is happy when we sin against Him.

I cannot remember the last time a priest spoke of Hell.

 

[Praedicare]

There is something of a new mindset in our Catholic preaching since the 1950s… or at least a mindset that is new to the West. Eastern Christians have long seen conversion & fear of God in terms of therapy, healing, and mercy rather than law, wrath, and vengeance. I am glad that we are learning from them, if we are.

The whole of our life in Christ should be understood primarily as relationships: Bride to Bridegroom, Beloved to Lover, House to Dweller, and Temple to the One who is worshiped in the Temple.

The goal of preaching is to inflame people with love of God. Sainthood comes from the heart that loves God passionately. Those who most intensely speak in terms of mysticism and union with God (St. John of the Cross, inter alia) rarely speak of His wrath and vengeance, but only of the things that are not worthy of our love. We should never deny Hell, and Hell should be mentioned to Catholics, at least; but as 1newcatholic said, most people scoff at the idea. They should be brought in gently. The Summit of all Holiness remains Love. Perfect love does what is right and just, but perfect love also casts out fear.

In my opinion, by preaching about hellfire you will only make people afraid of Hellfire; if you preach about the love of God, people will love God. We must avoid anything that can create “mercenary love” - love which responds to God out of fear of sulfur.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Also, St Pope John Paul II taught that God does not send anyone to hell, but rather, they go there on their own. They reject God and therefore suffer the consequence of separation from God.

Also, the true definition of “sin is to miss the mark.” The analogy is given of an archer aiming at his target, but missing it.

When we think of sin in this way, it changes the mindset.

The consequences for sin isn’t God’s punishment per se, but rather the effect of sin on the soul. The separation from God is the consequence for sin and separation from God is the suffering one who does not repent will experience when they come to realize how they offended the Divine Creator.

Note what is taking place in the world today, i.e. wars, disasters and diseases. There are not punishments from God, but the consequences of separating ourselves from God. The world has rejected God most today see belief in God as gullible nonsense. They will never understand that God can not protect them if they reject God.

Jesus gave us two commandments to follow, “love the Lord God with your whole heart, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.”

Note that these are based on love, not on the threat of eternal punishment.

I think it’s beneficial for people to read about Divine Mercy which Jesus promises through the words of St Faustina.

Will a God of mercy reject the contrite heart ? No.

Jim

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

In my opinion, by preaching about hellfire you will only make people afraid of Hellfire; if you preach about the love of God, people will love God. We must avoid anything that can create “mercenary love” - love which responds to God out of fear of sulfur.

Forget fear. The kind of obnoxious, self-righteous arrogance carried by hellfire screamers actually makes hell itself look warm in comparison. Then they go on and say, “I am not arrogant! I am but a humble sinner! O woe is me! Lord have mercy!” If this is what a true Catholic is supposed to be, I’d rather open a portal to hell right now and overthrow Satan!

 

[Googler]

Our Lady asked the seers at Fatima to pray the Rosary and also requested them to pray this prayer after each mystery:

O my Jesus, (1) forgive us our sins,
(2) save us from the fires of hell
(3) lead all souls to heaven
especially those in most need of Thy mercy

Dante places bishops and popes in Hell in The Divine Comedy. And yet the Church encourages reading this.

 

[thistle]

Most people don’t even take hellfire seriously anymore. What’s the point of trying to scare people into good behavior when they don’t believe your threats? Maybe it is good to emphasize the positive when people will only sneer at the negative. Maybe it’s okay to preach that God is love because God is love.

I completely disagree. Many people have lost their sense of sin and I think at priest at Mass should make it clear that people in a state of mortal sin and die in that state go immediately to Hell and will be eternally separated from God.
I also think that priests in homilies should run through the different mortal sins and tell people if they have committed such sins and have not been to Confession he does not expect them to appear before him in the Communion line expecting to receive.
I believe there is too much pussyfooting around mortal sin and Hell and that is why people just shrug it off.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Our Lady asked the seers at Fatima to pray the Rosary and also requested them to pray this prayer after each mystery:

O my Jesus, (1) forgive us our sins,
(2) save us from the fires of hell
(3) lead all souls to heaven
especially those in most need of Thy mercy

Dante places bishops and popes in Hell in The Divine Comedy. And yet the Church encourages reading this.

Dante’s Divine Comedy is fiction and I don’t know that the Church today encourages reading it from anything other than it’s a classic, although the seven deadly sins are covered in it.

Unfortunately, many people took Dante’s version of purgatory and hell literally and have run with it for centuries.

Jim

 

[fhansen]

It seems as if the mantra these days is “God loves everyone”. While that is not necessarily false, it is rather misleading. I do believe that God loves all His children; however, I also believe that God is one of vengeance, wrath, and anger as described in the Bible. The priest at my parish made a fine point that the majority of mankind sees God as a “lovable teddy bear” that just forgives people and forgets. Rather, God is also a father, and He chastises His children just like any other dad.

I don’t want to seem like one of the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but I do believe that God’s loving and forgiving side is preached more than His vengeful and angry side. Any thoughts?

We can’t naturally even begin to fathom the degree of love God has for us, even as many might be proclaiming it; this is a supernatural love in terms of scale and quality. If we can understand that first of all, with His help, if we can first of all start to know God’s kindness, trustworthiness, patience, humility-His goodness-which was the purpose of Jesus’s life, passion, death, and resurrection: revealing the love of the Father and His will, then we can also put His justice into proper perspective. Anger and vengeance might be useful terms in attempting to describe God’s absolute opposition to evil but mercy and forgiveness-and all the qualities described in 1 Cor 13, BTW, speak about the very nature of God.

 

[ready]

It seems as if the mantra these days is “God loves everyone”. While that is not necessarily false, it is rather misleading. I do believe that God loves all His children; however, I also believe that God is one of vengeance, wrath, and anger as described in the Bible. The priest at my parish made a fine point that the majority of mankind sees God as a “lovable teddy bear” that just forgives people and forgets. Rather, God is also a father, and He chastises His children just like any other dad.

I don’t want to seem like one of the Westboro Baptist Church folk, but I do believe that God’s loving and forgiving side is preached more than His vengeful and angry side. Any thoughts?

Sinners also need to hear about God’s justice. Many sinners especially need to hear about God’s justice. Life is very serious business because what we willfully think, say and do in it can result in an ETERNITY of extreme pain and suffering. God bless you.

 

[Tesseract]

I completely disagree. Many people have lost their sense of sin and I think at priest at Mass should make it clear that people in a state of mortal sin and die in that state go immediately to Hell and will be eternally separated from God.
I also think that priests in homilies should run through the different mortal sins and tell people if they have committed such sins and have not been to Confession he does not expect them to appear before him in the Communion line expecting to receive.
I believe there is too much pussyfooting around mortal sin and Hell and that is why people just shrug it off.

I have heard this in a recent homily. Certain sexual sins were specifically mentioned.

I would expect everyone to hear about Hell on June 23, 2015, since the Gospel reading will include:

“Enter through the narrow gate;
for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction,
and those who enter through it are many.
How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life.
And those who find it are few.”

All the homilies should not be about Hell, however it is a reality.