Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

[onenow1]

Hi,All

Gensis:4
3 In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,
4 and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,
5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain wasvery angry, and his countenance fell. 6 The LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen?
7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is couching at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.”
Quote= OneNow1
.God’s instruction is everlasting, unchanging, and eternal. I believe this is a case of worship + works, also the way the Lord speaks to Cain not merely spiritual but intellectual affirming God’s love with freedom to make a decision for himself.

Good works are done from the heart, because its the right thing to do and I suspect that’s all the Lord want’s from us, along with proper reverence, and worship.

Peace, OneNow1

 

[Jimmy_B]

My answer and posibly others here, can be found here.

“what it means to be Christian-Catholic”

There are enough links here to keep any Catholic or non-Catholic busy for a long while.

 

[SIA]

Doing good works, or producing “good fruit” is a MUST if we are to remain a part of the vine, which is Christ. Failing to do so will result in your being pruned away.

Salvation is an active verb, not a passive one.

Absolutely. Again, the works are a must to show that you are actively progressing in your faith but remember, it is Christ who transforms us and also the grace by faith in him that saves us; not our works.

 

[GatorMommy]

Absolutely. Again, the works are a must to show that you are actively progressing in your faith but remember, it is Christ who transforms us and also the grace by faith in him that saves us; not our works.

Let me see if I can explain this in another fashion:

When I a junior in high school, my father bought me my first car. It was a free gift. In order to drive it, however, I had to pay for the gas and help pay for my car insurance. If I failed to keep up my part of the bargain, I would lose that gift.

As Christians, Christ gives us the glorious gift of salvation, but it requires action on our part to keep that faith alive. We can’t be Dudley Dursley and get to heaven (ie, take the gift and then sit on our butts until it’s time to redeem it.) We must “work out our salvation” … because “faith without works is dead.”

 

[Jimmy_B]

**The bible does not “say” that we are saved by “faith alone”, this belief is anti-biblical. The bible “says” among other things, that we must also follow God’s instructions and obey His Commandments. **

Jas 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
Rom 2:6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
2:9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
2:10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
2:11 For there is no partiality with God.
Phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Matt 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
25:33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
25:35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
25:36 ‘I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
25:38 'When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
25:39 ‘Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
25:40 "And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Note: **The only way that one can refute these verses, which support Catholicism, is to claim that there exists a conflict in the Bible or that there exists Bible verses which conflict with one another. There exists no such conflict in the Bible. The Bible is the “Word of God” and God is not in conflict with Himself. The harmony of Bible can only be known, appreciated and understood in context. The Bible and Christianity, cannot nor should not be summed-up by a ‘handful of verses”. If this were the case, the Bible would contain, only a ‘handful of verses”. **** **

 

[Jimmy_B]

The bible does not “say” that we are saved by “faith alone”, this belief anti-biblical. The bible It “says” that we must also follow God’s instructions (continued)

Matthew
25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
25:42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
25:43 ‘I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
25:44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
25:45 "Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
25:46 “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Gal 6:6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
6:9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
6:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
1 Jn 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 Jn 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do the things which I say?”
Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
Matt 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
5:29 “and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
Ps 62:12 Also to You, O Lord, belongs mercy;
For You render to each one according to his work.

**Note: **The only way that one can refute these verses, which support Catholicism, is to claim that there exists a conflict in the Bible or that there exists Bible verses which conflict with one another. There exists no such conflict in the Bible. The Bible is the “Word of God” and God is not in conflict with Himself. The harmony of Bible can only be known, appreciated and understood in context. The Bible and Christianity, cannot nor should not be summed-up by a ‘handful of verses”. If this were the case, the Bible would contain, only a ‘handful of verses”. ****

 

[Jimmy_B]

The bible does not say that we should use the “bible alone”, as the sole source of our faith, this is anti-biblical

2 Thes 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
1 Cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
2 Tim 2:2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
1 Thes 2:13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
Acts 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
2 Pet 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Acts 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
8:31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
2 John 1:12 Having many things to write to you, I did not wish to do so with paper and ink; but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
3 John 1:13 I had many things to write, but I do not wish to write to you with pen and ink;
1:14 but I hope to see you shortly, and we shall speak face to face. Peace to you. Our friends greet you. Greet the friends by name.
1Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 21:25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
2Tim 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Note: **The only way that one can refute these verses, which support Catholicism, is to claim that there exists a conflict in the Bible or that there exists Bible verses which conflict with one another. There exists no such conflict in the Bible. The Bible is the “Word of God” and God is not in conflict with Himself. The harmony of Bible can only be known, appreciated and understood in context. The Bible and Christianity, cannot nor should not be summed-up by a ‘handful of verses”. If this were the case, the Bible would contain, only a ‘handful of verses”. **

 

[paarsurrey]

Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

Hi

Quran is very clear on this point and it has been mentioned very often and repeatedly in Quran.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 2: Al-Baqarah

[2:61] And remember the time when Moses prayed for water for his people and We said, ‘Strike the rock with thy rod;’ and there gushed forth from it twelve springs, so that every tribe knew their drinking place. And they were told, ‘Eat and drink of what Allah has provided, and commit not iniquity in the earth, creating disorder.’
[2:62] And remember when you said, ‘O Moses, surely we will not remain content with one kind of food; pray, then, to thy Lord for us that He may bring forth for us of what the earth grows - of its herbs and its cucumbers and its wheat and its lentils and its onions.’ He said, ‘Would you take in exchange that which is worse for that which is better? Go down to some town and there is for you what you ask.’ And they were smitten with abasement and destitution, and they incurred the wrath of Allah; that was because they rejected the Signs of Allah and sought to slay the Prophets unjustly; this was because they rebelled and transgressed.
[2:63] **Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve. **www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=2&verse=59

 

[Jimmy_B]

Hi

Quran is very clear on this point and it has been mentioned very often and repeatedly in Quran.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 2: Al-Baqarah

[2:61] And remember the time when Moses prayed for water for his people and We said, ‘Strike the rock with thy rod;’ and there gushed forth from it twelve springs, so that every tribe knew their drinking place. And they were told, ‘Eat and drink of what Allah has provided, and commit not iniquity in the earth, creating disorder.’
[2:62] And remember when you said, ‘O Moses, surely we will not remain content with one kind of food; pray, then, to thy Lord for us that He may bring forth for us of what the earth grows - of its herbs and its cucumbers and its wheat and its lentils and its onions.’ He said, ‘Would you take in exchange that which is worse for that which is better? Go down to some town and there is for you what you ask.’ And they were smitten with abasement and destitution, and they incurred the wrath of Allah; that was because they rejected the Signs of Allah and sought to slay the Prophets unjustly; this was because they rebelled and transgressed.
[2:63] **Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve. **www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=2&verse=59

Hello paarsurrey,

The Quran and Islam came after Catholicism and the Bible, right?

God Bless

 

[paarsurrey]

Hello paarsurrey,
The Quran and Islam came after Catholicism and the Bible, right?
God Bless

Hi

Hinduism and Buddhism and Judaism came even earlier than the Catholicism.

Thanks

 

[Jimmy_B]

Hi

Hinduism and Buddhism and Judaism came even earlier than the Catholicism.

Thanks

Hello paarsurrey,

Good point, However, most religions were started by a man, where Christianity was started by God. Please keep in mind, that Christianity is a Christian- Judao religion. Jesus is/was “God with us”, “Fully Human and Fully Divine”. Never in religious history has anyone been able to “touch” God… He lived among us. How can anyone (other religions) say that Jesus Christ was a “holy man”, or a that He was a “Prophet” and yet, at the same time, deny His divinity. Jesus said, He was God! Do “holy men” or “Prophets” lie?

Take care,

 

[Canto]

A few thoughts…

JAMES 2:24 the only time the words faith alone are used in the entire bible and James condemns the concept
JAMES 2:26 “as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead”

EPHESIANS 2:10 we are created in Christ Jesus in good works (not works of the old law)

ROMANS 2:2-8 God will render everyone according to their works
REVELATION 21:12 render everyone according to their works
1 PETER 1:17 render everyone according to their works

MATTHEW 19:16-17 if you want eternal life Jesus says “keep the commandments”
JOHN 14:21 if we love Jesus we will keep the commandments
JAMES 2:8 the royal law is to love your neighbour as yourself – note no mention of faith in the ROYAL law

1 CORINTHIANS 13:13 of faith, hope and charity (love) the greatest is CHARITY not faith
GALATIANS 5:6 In Christ Jesus “faith that works in charity” avails

2 PHILIPPIANS 2:12 “work your salvation”
JOHN 10:37 “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not”

How can we have faith if we don’t have works?
Not works alone or faith lone
Faith and works go together
See James Ch2

 

[TMC]

To me this is a false choice because it relies on a false assumption - that one one can be had without the other.

Faith without works is dead, because true faith and true works are inseparable. I think this is what Jesus meant when he said “Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.” Matt 7:16-18.

I belive the point is not that just that you can tell if someone has faith by looking at what they do, the point is also that good works are part of the essence of what a faithful person is. We are always trying to divide things into parts and categories: faith from works, professional life from personal, public from private, and so forth. But like a fig tree, people are unified wholes, and the faithful are faithful. Hanging figs on a thorn tree doesn’t make it a fig tree, and a real fig tree can’t help but make figs. There is no seperation - we are Christ’s or we are not.

To ask the question is to suggest some seperation between our external, observable, ‘real’ lives and our inner spiritual lives. We have one life, and its either Christian or not.

 

[JonNC]

*"14.The Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church have together listened to the good news proclaimed in Holy Scripture. This common listening, together with the theological conversations of recent years, has led to a shared understanding of justification. This encompasses a consensus in the basic truths; the differing explications in particular statements are compatible with it.

15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11]

16.All people are called by God to salvation in Christ. Through Christ alone are we justified, when we receive this salvation in faith. Faith is itself God’s gift through the Holy Spirit who works through word and sacrament in the community of believers and who, at the same time, leads believers into that renewal of life which God will bring to completion in eternal life.

17.We also share the conviction that the message of justification directs us in a special way towards the heart of the New Testament witness to God’s saving action in Christ: it tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way.

18.Therefore the doctrine of justification, which takes up this message and explicates it, is more than just one part of Christian doctrine. It stands in an essential relation to all truths of faith, which are to be seen as internally related to each other. It is an indispensable criterion which constantly serves to orient all the teaching and practice of our churches to Christ. When Lutherans emphasize the unique significance of this criterion, they do not deny the interrelation and significance of all truths of faith. When Catholics see themselves as bound by several criteria, they do not deny the special function of the message of justification. Lutherans and Catholics share the goal of confessing Christ in all things, who alone is to be trusted above all things as the one Mediator (1 Tim 2:5f) through whom God in the Holy Spirit gives himself and pours out his renewing gifts. [cf. Sources for section 3]." *
Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

Jimmy,
I contend that our understandings on the role of faith and works are moving toward convergence. It seems that instead of Catholics and non catholics talking past each other on this issue, we should be discussing how we can better understand each other and see how close that brings us, just like our church leaders are trying to do.

To that end, it is clear that Christ expects those of us who are saved by grace through faith, both Catholic and non-catholic, to do good works in His name, not that they merit us salvation, but that it is what He commands of us. Lutherans call it sanctification. But whatever the designation, good works are the outward signs of our justification. And if they are not there, how can we continue to claim justification? How can we claim our faith is not dead, if we do not act on it as Christ has asked?

Is there a difference here between what we believe that is worth arguing over, or are we pretty darn close to agreement on the major points of justification?

Jon

 

[paarsurrey]

Hello paarsurrey,
Good point, However, most religions were started by a man, where Christianity was started by God. Please keep in mind, that Christianity is a Christian- Judao religion. Jesus is/was “God with us”, “Fully Human and Fully Divine”. Never in religious history has anyone been able to “touch” God… He lived among us. How can anyone (other religions) say that Jesus Christ was a “holy man”, or a that He was a “Prophet” and yet, at the same time, deny His divinity. Jesus said, He was God! Do “holy men” or “Prophets” lie?
Take care,

Hi

I don’t agree with you; sorry.
You don’t have to use such strong words for Jesus or other ProphetsMessengers of GodAllahYHWH. It is only your misconception or to speak more correctly wrong creeds propogated by Paul and followed by others.

Thanks

 

[Al_Masetti]

Neither.

We are saved only by the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity … we know that Person as Jesus … who will be the Judge of who gets into Heaven.

So, I guess we had better do everything in our power to get on the Judge’s good side.

Talk to Him.

Be nice to His Mother.

And, if you have to, BEG.

It’s worth it.

Maybe, [me talking] we have to give Him an excuse to pick us … give Him a reason to pick us … Ask the question … "why would Jesus, God, the Infinite God, the Son of the Infinite God, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity … want to spend Eternity with us?

Would YOU want to spend Eternity with YOU?

But you know that He will pick some folks. The first person who made it was none other than St. Dismas … the “Good Thief” and he was a possibly a sociopath. Or worse.

[Dismas WAS given the opportunity to “reach out” … and he seized that opportunity. Will each of us have that same kind of opportunity? … or will we die suddenly in our sleep, perhaps, or go into a sudden coma … or have an airplane crash into our office window and take us out without our even being aware it was happening??? Would we be in the “state of grace” if that happened?

St. Thomas Aquinas made it. And he was arguably the best writer of the second millenium.

Elijah and Enoch made it. And they didn’t even have to die!, for goodness sake.

What do all of the saints have in common?

Do we know … definitely … [not opinion] … who didn’t make it?

 

[bengal_fan]

sorry, i haven’t read all the posts in here nor do i plan to. but i would like to answer the thread’s question for i think it is a simple one.

Are we Saved by “Faith Alone” or “Faith and Good Works”?

neither. we are saved by grace. the argument is how that grace is imparted upon us.

 

[SIA]

**The bible does not “say” that we are saved by “faith alone”, this belief is anti-biblical. The bible “says” among other things, that we must also follow God’s instructions and obey His Commandments. **

Jas 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
Rom 2:6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath,
2:9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
2:10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
2:11 For there is no partiality with God.
Phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Matt 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
25:33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
25:35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
25:36 ‘I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
25:38 'When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
25:39 ‘Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
25:40 "And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Note: **The only way that one can refute these verses, which support Catholicism, is to claim that there exists a conflict in the Bible or that there exists Bible verses which conflict with one another. There exists no such conflict in the Bible. The Bible is the “Word of God” and God is not in conflict with Himself. The harmony of Bible can only be known, appreciated and understood in context. The Bible and Christianity, cannot nor should not be summed-up by a ‘handful of verses”. If this were the case, the Bible would contain, only a ‘handful of verses”. **** **

You are wrong sir, the Bible does say that we are saved by faith alone. Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He never included “works” in those words. In fact the Counsil of Trent completely refutes Romans 4. Glad I left the RCC when I did.

 

[JonNC]

" Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11]

17.We also share the conviction that the message of justification directs us in a special way towards the heart of the New Testament witness to God’s saving action in Christ: it tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way."

Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

Jimmy, you seem intent on making this a point of argument. You appear to be discussing this from the point of view of 1517. I am looking at the discussion of Justification from the perspective of now - since 1999. Through the Holy Spirit we are developing ways to express our beliefs in ways that allow us to jointly understand God’s message, and the Grace He gives us.
In other words, I can’t and won’t argue the importance of works. The scriptures you quote tell us how important good works are. They demonstrate our growing in faith. They are a necessary result of Grace. But I will also say this; those good works I do I claim no merit in, for they, too, are Christ’s good works that he does through me.

I give thanks for this growing convergence. I hope you do too. It is truly the work of the Holy Spirit.

Jon

 

[SIA]

" Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.[11]

17.We also share the conviction that the message of justification directs us in a special way towards the heart of the New Testament witness to God’s saving action in Christ: it tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way."

Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

Jimmy, you seem intent on making this a point of argument. You appear to be discussing this from the point of view of 1517. I am looking at the discussion of Justification from the perspective of now - since 1999. Through the Holy Spirit we are developing ways to express our beliefs in ways that allow us to jointly understand God’s message, and the Grace He gives us.
In other words, I can’t and won’t argue the importance of works. The scriptures you quote tell us how important good works are. They demonstrate our growing in faith. They are a necessary result of Grace. But I will also say this; those good works I do I claim no merit in, for they, too, are Christ’s good works that he does through me.

I give thanks for this growing convergence. I hope you do too. It is truly the work of the Holy Spirit.

Jon

I absolutely agree. This seems to be a contention of many Catholics and I that is unfortunate. A lack of true faith in Christ could very well be why so many of them doubt their own salvation in Christ. If we all put our attention in God’s word instead of into these schemes of man and such, these doubts and fears would not overtake our spiritual lives.