Are We Still Praying For the Conversion of Russia?

[Hesychios]

Maybe the BVM and I look at the world differently than most. the BVM knew what communism was all about, another thing I remmber from the news and people from WWII, General Patton waiting at Berlin (under orders) for the Russians to split the spoils of victory, asked his Commander if he could take his 600 tanks through Berlin ( defeat Marxism) and then through Stalingrad (defeat Communism)He told everyone that Communism was going to be a big problem. ,would you believe , They cut off his gas supply ,and latter had him killed? dont look at Other Countries, Communism gave us Cuban blockade , Vietnam, Korea,Chinese Communism, and unfortunetly America has many communist in the U.S. Congress. and Comrade obama? PRAY to our MOTHE!

Well, that’s another kettle of fish.

Russia is no longer communist, and for that matter, neither is China actually, since it dissolved the communes 40 years ago and has a mixed economy for thirty years running. In fact American companies like Walmart, General Motors, Proctor & Gamble and Pfizer are all over those economies making big bucks for American stockholders. The cold war is dead.

 

[maurin]

Someone much smarter than I am may be able to flesh out details, but the error that Russia continues to spread in the context within which Our Lady spoke is Atheism, and the uncrowning and dethronement of Her Son, Our Lord.

The cold war may be over, WallyWorld might be bringing throw away consumables to the Chinese, but the fact is that He bhas been uncrowned. That error is still spreading.

For the Concecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as requested by Our Lady of Fatima.

 

[Pregustator]

Russia has been a Christian country since the tenth century, and devoted to Mary the entire time. Of course it is a predominantly Orthodox country.

But in all these years, even centuries, the BVM never made a request like this to anyone, until the twentieth century.

So what errors has Russia been spreading in all those centuries?

We used to insist it that the “errors” of Russia meant communism, back before the fall of the Soviet Union. What one is supposed to define Russia’s errors as today, now that the Soviet Union has fallen, is anybody’s guess. But I am not a part of the camp that says that God is awaiting the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

I’m afraid I just don’t believe in Fatima, at all.

Not a peep from the Blessed Virgin, although she was reported in visions many times.

Precisely.

 

[At_Trent]

We used to insist it that the “errors” of Russia meant communism, back before the fall of the Soviet Union. What one is supposed to define Russia’s errors as today, now that the Soviet Union has fallen, is anybody’s guess. But I am not a part of the camp that says that God is awaiting the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

I’m afraid I just don’t believe in Fatima, at all.

Precisely.

Don’t you think giving fuel for the development of nuclear weapons a country whose leader makes an outrageous assertion that Israel be wiped off the map could be erroneous ?

 

[otjm]

Someone much smarter than I am may be able to flesh out details, but the error that Russia continues to spread in the context within which Our Lady spoke is Atheism, and the uncrowning and dethronement of Her Son, Our Lord.

The cold war may be over, WallyWorld might be bringing throw away consumables to the Chinese, but the fact is that He bhas been uncrowned. That error is still spreading.

For the Concecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as requested by Our Lady of Fatima.

I am not convinced that Russia is spreading atheism. However, Europe has certainly been leading the pack, if not spreading atheism, then indifferentism and secularism. And the US seems to be buying in hand over fist into secularism.

Rather than the virulent atheism we saw in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, we are seeing materialism come to the forefront. Russia has cozied up tot he Orthodox, China and Viet Nam both have a reluctant but varied tolerance for the exercise of faith, and the screwball in Venezuela may have it in for the bishops, but that has far more to do with his view of power and socialism than it does with atheism.

 

[Hesychios]

Someone much smarter than I am may be able to flesh out details, but the error that Russia continues to spread in the context within which Our Lady spoke is Atheism …

Atheism is like a virus, it goes everywhere and every culture and community is spreading it.

However, when the communists first took control of Russia the idealogues were militant atheists, and they were able to turn the force of government towards suppressing religious belief (of any sort) with a brutal efficiency anywhere within their reach.

That is gone now. What we have is this general agnosticism and atheism that permeates just about every society to some extent, this has been happening since long before the Bolsheviks came along and persists today in Europe even though the Bolsheviks are a footnote in history.

American society is post-Christian, and if anything that reinforces eevry other post-Christian society. The same is true of British post-Christian society and French post-Christian society, these reinforce this attitude in each other … mostly through the popular media and personal interactions, and Russia today is just another part of that sad story.

Christianity has lost credibility with many people around the world for a variety of reasons, but there is no single source we can point to for that, unless we care to point to ourselves for ultimately being such poor witnesses.

 

[At_Trent]

… unless we care to point to ourselves for ultimately being such poor witnesses.

That I can agree with. How many of us would embrace Martyrdom today, rather than shut up or deny our faith if threatened ?

 

[maurin]

Atheistic communism, I believe, has all its philosophical roots in Europe of the so called enlightenment. It was after all the French deformers who enthroned reason in Notre Dame. The Russian communists took illogic to its logical end.

Russia still spreads her errors. The Orthodox Church is not confused with the Catholic Church by the Orthodox themselves. Christians, yes. Catholic, no. Our Lady is not an ecumaniac. When she bpromised the conversion of Russia by name, She meant the Church Christ founded on the Rock of Peter. And that conversion is to be effected by the Concecration of Russia by name to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world. As She requested.

Magic? Or Miraculous?

 

[Hesychios]

Russia still spreads her errors. The Orthodox Church is not confused with the Catholic Church by the Orthodox themselves. Christians, yes. Catholic, no. Our Lady is not an ecumaniac. When she bpromised the conversion of Russia by name, She meant the Church Christ founded on the Rock of Peter. And that conversion is to be effected by the Concecration of Russia by name to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world. As She requested.

Acually I think you are reading too much into this.

I basically addressed this line of reasoning in a post above, so I needn’t go into it again very deeply.

IF she was addressing the Orthodox “threat” she had many opportunities to do that before, and she didn’t.

She could have plainly asked to pray for “the Orthodox” because Holy Orthodoxy is in many more countries than just Russia. Why not Romania, why not Greece? Why not Ukraine, which BTW was about to suffer the most horrible famine in just a few short years?

It apparently wasn’t what she was thinking at the time.

 

[maurin]

My post was not a reply to yours, Hesychios, although I may have picked up a thread from it.

You are asking for particulars from our Lady. Our Lady, I believe, has cut to the core of the problems she addressed. Russian atheistic communism is Europe’s child conceived out of Sacramental wedlock. The parents learned the well the lessons of their own illegitimate child. They have uncrowned Him as they pray 'Thy Kingdom come…"

 

[otjm]

Atheistic communism, I believe, has all its philosophical roots in Europe of the so called enlightenment. It was after all the French deformers who enthroned reason in Notre Dame. The Russian communists took illogic to its logical end.

Russia still spreads her errors. The Orthodox Church is not confused with the Catholic Church by the Orthodox themselves. Christians, yes. Catholic, no. Our Lady is not an ecumaniac. When she bpromised the conversion of Russia by name, She meant the Church Christ founded on the Rock of Peter. And that conversion is to be effected by the Concecration of Russia by name to Her Immaculate Heart by the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world. As She requested.

Magic? Or Miraculous?

You might want to actually research what the Church says about the Orthodox Church before you go making such comments.

 

[maurin]

I have read the MP SP. Kindly show me where I have erred.

 

[Hunter53]

And why would you leave aside the zionist bit? They are now and always have been enemies of Christ.

 

[otjm]

And why would you leave aside the zionist bit? They are now and always have been enemies of Christ.

You, too, would do well to actually learn what the Church holds. You might start with paragraph 597 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[otjm]

I have read the MP SP. Kindly show me where I have erred.

I am assuming you were responding to me. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.” See, paragraph 838.

 

[maurin]

I am assuming you were responding to me. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.” See, paragraph 838.

Kindly show me where I have erred. Your quote actually substantiates what I said.

 

[maurin]

I’m sure you were making a point, but it was lost on me. I have a coworker who is presbyterian who tells me they pray the Apostles Creed at their services. He assures me they do not identify the Holy catholic Church with the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

But as this is off-topic, we should return to Our Lady’s request.

 

[otjm]

Kindly show me where I have erred. Your quote actually substantiates what I said.

They are Catholic but for the schism. we share the same Sacraments; we are allowed by the /Church to receive thiers (subject to their permission; they may receive ours, subject to their discipline.

Not exactly what one would call Protestant.

 

[maurin]

Please ojtm, please do not put words in my mouth. Not exactly what one would call truthful conversation.

I wonder if anyone else senses the irony in the reply? “Except for the schism…” the Catechism in paragraph 1399, I believe, actually encourages interCommunion, subject to conditions. “And all except for the schism.” No fear there of imbibing a shismatic mentality!

So we are back to my original point. Our Lady is not an ecumaniac. When she promised Russia’s conversion, it was not to a Church, and the Orthodox are true Churches, in schism, but to the Church Her Son founded on Peter the Rock.

 

[Hesychios]

My post was not a reply to yours, Hesychios, although I may have picked up a thread from it.

I understand that, but I did have a reflection on your statement, so I was responding to you.

Specifically you stated …
*" The Orthodox Church is not confused with the Catholic Church by the Orthodox themselves. Christians, yes. Catholic, no. " *

This is particularly where you are wrong. As far as I am concerned Holy Orthodoxy is catholicism at it’s sublime best.

Not only catholic, but from our perspective more catholic than the Pope (to play off an old idiom). Holy Orthodoxy is right belief, and right thinking catholic Christianity. Catholicism should involve correct thinking and believing above all, which is what *orthodox *means. To be an Orthodox catholic is to be a right thinking catholic Christian.

I don’t usually like to make these kind of statements because they can be construed as inflammatory and I don’t really want to insult anyone, but you are making a claim that Orthodox are not catholic at all, which is highly offensive to me. Perhaps you make the above assumption because we use the words ‘catholic’ and ‘orthodox’ as short handles for our communions in ordinary conversation. But I am here to tell you that the Orthodox church is as catholic as it was in 1053AD, because it adheres to right beliefs consistently.