Are you in favor of a New World Order (world governance)?

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A human, New World Order type of government would be appalling. It would most likely be exceptionally corrupt and those in power would be milking the resources of the planet to benefit themselves and vested interests. If that ever happened then I would think we could safely assume that Satan had complete control over our planet.
Just as a point of discussion…I think the above assumes a certain kind of government that is very centralized and very controlling. There are governmental systems that are designed to be less so.

If we take the U.S. and it’s history as an example, the earlier form of government was far less centralized. Local communities had much more autonomy and this was, to an extent, the whole idea of having the government set up the way it was.

This seemed to work pretty well for the first 100 to 150 years and then things began to get more and more centralized until we have the highly centralized system that we have today - with all of it’s problems.

Now I’m not saying that the older, more decentralized, system didn’t have it’s corruption and problems…most certainly it did. I’m just saying that it was different…and that there were advantages to it.

A world government established and ran on such a “decentralized” system could likewise have a number of advantages in flexibility, checks and balances and so forth…
It would require the recognition and appreciation that different areas of the world have their own unique issues and that these are best addressed more locally.

Of course - over time - history has shown that there is a tendency toward centralization so I would look for that to happen even in a world government that was initially well set up.

Not saying I’m in favor of a one world government…Except one headed by Christ Himself…just putting some thoughts out there.

Peace
James
 
Of course - over time - history has shown that there is a tendency toward centralization so I would look for that to happen even in a world government that was initially well set up.
The trouble is than man is corrupt. You put increased power in the hands of men and their corruption causes them to be tempted to use this power for their own ends, and man’s weakness means that those in power will succumb to this temptation and use their. You will also get suppression of ideologies that do not fit with the aims of the government. If a world government was set up along the lines of Western values, you would get suppression of Christianity, as our values run counter to the secular values prevalent in Western society.

I think such a government would result in an increase in the ‘culture of death’ (abortion, euthanasia etc) that exists in Western society, and this may well be extended in order to reduce the population of our ‘over-populated’ planet (all for the ‘greater good’ of course). There would be an wholesale promotion of the ideals of the ‘sexual revolution’, probably leading to the legalisation of ‘inter-generational’ sexual relations. Anyone opposing these ‘values’ would be branded as extremist and ‘dangerous’ and would be persecuted.

A ‘New World Order’ government of any description would be a very bad thing indeed.
 
The catholic church has repeatedly said that the new age is against catholic teaching and masonry is against catholic teaching. The new world order is new age as it is the final goal of the new age of Aquarius: is to fully control the control the world.
You have yet to substantiate that a “new world order” is inherently new age/pagan/masonic/whatever.

That said anything more powerful than a humane UN would be scary.
 
You have yet to substantiate that a “new world order” is inherently new age/pagan/masonic/whatever.

That said anything more powerful than a humane UN would be scary.
I just said it before. The goal of the new age is to establish a new world.order. according to the New age we live in the age of Pisces I.e.the age of Jesus. The main teaching of the new age of Aquarius is that the world.needs to enter into the age of Aquarius. The age of Pisces main characteristics is that is and age of war, hate and pain for people. In order to eliminate all wars the age of Pisces/Jesus needs to come to an end and the world needs to enter into a new world order ruled by Aquarius. The new world order is nothing new and it has always been the Masonic goal of conquering the entire world. It is even stated in the apocalypse.
 
I just said it before. The goal of the new age is to establish a new world.order. according to the New age we live in the age of Pisces I.e.the age of Jesus. The main teaching of the new age of Aquarius is that the world.needs to enter into the age of Aquarius. The age of Pisces main characteristics is that is and age of war, hate and pain for people. In order to eliminate all wars the age of Pisces/Jesus needs to come to an end and the world needs to enter into a new world order ruled by Aquarius. The new world order is nothing new and it has always been the Masonic goal of conquering the entire world. It is even stated in the apocalypse.
Just because the Masons or some other strange group supports a new world order doesn’t mean any “new world order” is inherently wrong or Masonic. As Vouthon suggests by quoting the Pope, it need not be unChristian, or totalitarian either.
 
it need not be unChristian, or totalitarian either.
Of course it would be unChristian. The values of Western society are inherently anti-Christian. Abortion, euthanasia, sexual permissiveness, hedonism, materialism, individualism, greed, moral relativism …
 
Just because the Masons or some other strange group supports a new world order doesn’t mean any “new world order” is inherently wrong or Masonic. As Vouthon suggests by quoting the Pope, it need not be unChristian, or totalitarian either.
The new world order that we are talking here is anti Christian because it.wants to eliminate God from society. The past order was the one instituted by Jesus which must be eliminated in order to bring the new order.from.the Aquarius era. Again the catholic church has stated several times that this is anti Christian. As Brendan said just look at the values of this new world order: abortion, gay marriage, sexual promiscuity, the idea that sex is a concept invented by society, euthanasia, moral relativism etc… where do you get that it is not anti Christian?
 
where do you get that it is not anti Christian?
Technically, the OP was asking if we were in favor of any New World Order, not necessarily the New World Order proposed by secularists.

If world governance were anti-Christian (which one could argue it is right now), then it would be a Christian duty to oppose and reform it (which one could argue it is right now). The Vatican is already trying to do this with its permanent observer seat at the UN, and other methods.

However, that doesn’t mean that the concept of global governance (or even, dare I say, global government) is inherently evil. If it were truly democratic, committed to real human rights (not the “rights” invented in the sexual revolution), and had a Christian democratic party that had some degree of actual power, it might actually be a good thing.
 
However, that doesn’t mean that the concept of global governance (or even, dare I say, global government) is inherently evil. If it were truly democratic, committed to real human rights (not the “rights” invented in the sexual revolution), and had a Christian democratic party that had some degree of actual power, it might actually be a good thing.
While you make a good point that a global government may not be inherently evil, in reality the idea is a little utopic. The big problem is that the idea of a global government is always historically attached to the idea of conquering the world and it is something that has been done from the Roman empire to Hitler. Realistically speaking you are not going to find anyone who has a Desire for a real democratic humanitarian government to go ahead with a plan for global government.
 
Over the years whenever the subject “mark of the beast” comes up I have said, "When that happens the world will be in such a chaotic state that most people will ask for and accept any measure that makes them feel more secure, and one of those measures would be the mark of the beast. With new Christians I have asked if they would take a microchip implant that was ordered on a worldwide basis, and they at first say “no.” When I say that they would not be able to buy, sell, or earn from a job, they take back the “no” and say “I would take the implant so my kids would not starve.”
I think you are dead right, sad but true. Those parents unknowingly would be be condemning themselves and possibly their kids to eternal hell, (kids will be required to get the mark too) just so they could put off any type of worldly suffering for a short time…that is amazing to me!!

If the mark is a reference to something in the past, such as Nero, then we must entertain the notion that maybe the rest of the bible was intended for times past as well and are not relevant in our time, or was not directed at us. It cant be both.
 
What about Dag Hammarskjold?
The UN Secretary-General? Well besides the fact that that you can’t get any more pro abortion, pro contraception, pro sexual promiscuity, pro gay marriage than thel UN, I had no knowledge that any UN Secretary-General had ever started a campaign to rule the world.
 
If the mark is a reference to something in the past, such as Nero, then we must entertain the notion that maybe the rest of the bible was intended for times past as well and are not relevant in our time, or was not directed at us. It cant be both.
Not necessarily. My reading of the Book of Revelation indicates that we are in a period of time called the “thousand years” in chapter 20. Evangelicals tend to refer to this time as the “millennium”. This is not a literal 1000-year period, but merely a long period of time during which Satan is bound. If you look at the facts that half the world worships the God of Abraham in some fashion, and that one third of the world is Christian, and that one sixth of the world is Catholic Christian; it looks like Satan is bound by God right now.
The UN Secretary-General? Well besides the fact that that you can’t get any more pro abortion, pro contraception, pro sexual promiscuity, pro gay marriage than thel UN, I had no knowledge that any UN Secretary-General had ever started a campaign to rule the world.
The UN (which is about the closest thing we have to actual world government) didn’t start out that way. It wasn’t until Paul Ehrlich wrote “The Population Bomb” that the UN started getting involved with all these anti-Christian projects at the UNFPA. The fact that the Vatican retains a permanent observer seat at the UN indicates that every Pope since the founding of the UNFPA believes that the UN is still good enough to try to reform rather than end.
 
Not necessarily.

The UN (which is about the closest thing we have to actual world government) didn’t start out that way. It wasn’t until Paul Ehrlich wrote “The Population Bomb” that the UN started getting involved with all these anti-Christian projects at the UNFPA. The fact that the Vatican retains a permanent observer seat at the UN indicates that every Pope since the founding of the UNFPA believes that the UN is still good enough to try to reform rather than end.
The UN is.not close to.a.global government in the way that we are talking.here I.e. an actual.government. the UN succeeded the international organization called the society of.nations after its miserable failure with WWII. When they refer themselves as global government what they talk is about facilitating International Law and pushing policies and certain systems into countries, but is in no.way mandatory. Now they do have coercive techniques to get with their own way but is not close to an actual government in the sense we talk here. The fact that the anti Christian project started at x point is irrelevant as in reality their policies are anti Christian and they manipulate countries so they would pass anti Christian laws.
 
The fact that the anti Christian project started at x point is irrelevant as in reality their policies are anti Christian and they manipulate countries so they would pass anti Christian laws.
Many individual Western governments do the same–it doesn’t mean the countries or their governments are inherently evil (corrupt, but not evil).
 
As Catholics we are, I should state, supposed to subscribe to the church’s “social teaching”. This tradition stretches back in antiquity to the strong calls for justice and defence of the rights of the oppressed contained in the Torah, the prophetic books of the Old Testament, the Gospels, the Apostolic Fathers and the Church Fathers; and in modernity to Pope Leo XIII’s 1891 encyclical, “Rerum Novarum”.

One of the key teachings to emerge in the modern manifestation of this venerable tradition, with its foundation in much earlier traditions, is the fact that a globalized world needs a true “world political authority” to foster solidarity and deal with those problems that need dealt with at the highest levels while fully respecting the principle of subsidiarity (ie “what can be dealt with at a lower level should be”).

The church was born in the Roman Empire. When that Empire became Christian, the church made full use of its world-wide scope and competence to spread the Gospel. Indeed the chief reason that Christianity was able to spread so quickly in the first centuries AD to become a minority but widespread faith was because of the international travel network and relative conditions of peace created by the emperor Augustus in the 20s BC.

In the middle ages, Western Christendom clung to the ideal of the “Holy Roman Empire”. The church has long worked within the framework of multi-ethnic, trans-national authorities and is itself the greatest religious example of such an entity.

Before the creation of “nation states” in the 17th-18th century, and the birth of nationalism, medieval society was composed of great degrees of subsidiarity at the local level - with medieval communes with limited democratic procedures (relative to their time), guilds and city-states or republics dotting the landscape. These existed alongside the universalizing presence of the church as well as higher authorities such as the waning, increasing symbolic, role of the Holy Roman Empire. In this global order in Europe the Catholic Church served as a glue and the Vatican often as a supreme court of arbitration. People saw themselves, not as members of nation-states, but as fellow members of their local communities as well as of an international community of Catholics crossing borders under the Supreme Pontiff.

Modern nation-states are a product of the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. This treaty implemented a system of global governance which succeeded the one I have just explained to you (which was broke by the Protestant Reformation) and which has endured in some form to this day.

This system is man-made and not divinely ordained. It therefore does not have to be static.

The church, ever wary of nationalism, has for long called for a “true political authority” of a global nature to manage worldwide affairs that cannot be dealt with at the local level.

As Catholics we should assent to this, no?

The church has not defined what form this “world political authority” should take in any precise manner. This is for the secular sphere too work out. The church’s role in this has been to suggest reforms, provide proposals and procedures as well as the limits or checks on power which would need to be in place for such an “authority” to be created and function effectively, efficiently and morally. The papal encyclical *Caitas en Veritate *in 2009 suggested using the current UN as a structure to reform into something that resembles more the one that the church envisions because of its recognised position globally and heritage. Clearly it should be limited but should it be simply an international organization like the UN (albeit reformed and with “real teeth” to us Pope Benedict XVI’s phrase) or a limited world government formed by common consent?

Catholics are thus not under any obligation to subscribe to “world government” of some sort if we don’t believe in it; however we are expected to assent to the church’s teaching that the world needs a “world political authority” however one understands the nature of this proposed structure of global governance. It will be different for every generation or age. Every generation of humanity must face problems, especially in today’s globalized world, that have a world-wide scope - such as war, financial crises, epidemics or natural disasters. We need, always, to suggest new initiatives for getting nations and individuals comprising them to work together on a global scale. Past examples of this are the foundation of the UN itself and its predecessor the League.

This has been outlined in numerous papal documents with the full weight of the magisterium since Vatican II and before that in numerous other texts such as those by Venerable Pius XII, the works of theologians and even of important Catholic poets such as Dante.
 
If the One World Government decides at some point to be religiously intolerant or
specifically anti-Catholic or anti-Christian or to enforce immorality on the people–
just as the major national organizations are this very day because of Satan’s
influence over government–where can we Catholics/Christians go?

At least with the many nations, Christians can migrate to another more tolerant
country during persecution, as is happening with Syria and has happened with Iraq
and has happened throughout history.

One World Government allows no quarter in case of persecution, and even if some
of you may call me a fundamentalist or Protestant (which isn’t true) I believe in the
Prophets and Revelation which foretell of a unified, one world government which opposes
Christ and His Church and forbids anyone from buying or selling anywhere without the
mark of the Devil/Beast.

I call your attention to the practice of “economic sanctions” which the U.S. (particularly
the oppressive anti-Christian Obama) imposes on any country in the world that opposes
it’s policies. The U.S. (the EU also and others) does this through FIUs (Financial Information Units/Authorities) that monitor banks and “block” or “hold” transactions in any bank in its region/authority from people or organizations or governments (even recently the Vatican Bank) they don’t approve or accuse of money laundering (basically, unapproved and untaxed money). All this is explained in US Law and in worldwide (online) banking regulations.

The financial control over everyone worldwide is and has been implemented this very day. All that’s left is the cooperation and aggreement between the few/several world powers to oppose Christians and Christianity together, including through these several FIUs.

Until recently, there was the practice among some banks of secrecy for their account holders (as in Switzerland), but the US has “forced” the Vatican and Switzerland and everyone else to deny secrecy to their account holders. All that’s over with, albeit that some people abused this priviledge of secrecy in order to avoid taxes.

Now, there is software for banks and financial institutions being used worldwide which monitors every transaction for “suspicious” (unapproved) activity and reports it to the
bank. Only the major approved merchants get a free pass. This too is reported on the internet.

Finally, the real problem with this absolute control over money by the few/several major world powers is not the curtailing of tax evasion but the abuse or persecution of people through it.

Should the Antichrist rise today or very soon, he would have all the financial power necessary in the world. We know he will come, and I don’t think we should make it easier for a few people in the world the control everything, especially the money.

Besides money, we can’t even communicate with each other today using devices without being monitored by the few powers in the world–worldwide!

Personally, I don’t believe privacy is a right (except for the sex act), because Jesus said, [Luke 8:17] “For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.” And, St. Paul wrote that we witnessed how he and his co-workers lived their lives, which implies that he and his co-workers kept no secrets about their lives. After all, what do we Christians have to hide?

Still, in my opinion the control over money and finances as well as the monitoring of all communications by a few evil people (especially when forming one world government) only prepares and helps the coming of the Antichrist.
 
If the One World Government decides at some point to be religiously intolerant or
specifically anti-Catholic or anti-Christian or to enforce immorality on the people–
just as the major national organizations are this very day because of Satan’s
influence over government–where can we Catholics/Christians go?
You don’t need one-world government to have a situation where Christians have no safe place to go. Take the example of the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four; the 3 major powers in that world (Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia) all despised each other, but none was friendly toward anyone with a moral code opposed to that of the State.

EDIT: I realize that some people have a different interpretation of that novel, a belief that the 3 powers were secretly allied, but my point still stands–the 3 powers could be mortal enemies and still persecute Christians.
Personally, I don’t believe privacy is a right (except for the sex act), because Jesus said, [Luke 8:17] “For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.” And, St. Paul wrote that we witnessed how he and his co-workers lived their lives, which implies that he and his co-workers kept no secrets about their lives. After all, what do we Christians have to hide?.
Actually, the Bible says privacy is a right;

“Life’s prime needs are water, bread, and clothing, a house, too, for decent privacy.” (Sirach 29:21)
 
You don’t need one-world government to have a situation where Christians have no safe place to go. Take the example of the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four; the 3 major powers in that world (Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia) all despised each other, but none was friendly toward anyone with a moral code opposed to that of the State.

EDIT: I realize that some people have a different interpretation of that novel, a belief that the 3 powers were secretly allied, but my point still stands–the 3 powers could be mortal enemies and still persecute Christians.

Actually, the Bible says privacy is a right;

“Life’s prime needs are water, bread, and clothing, a house, too, for decent privacy.” (Sirach 29:21)
Good point about privacy.

I’m actually a bit confused as to why certain popes, at least Pope Benedict XVI for certain, expressed the desire to have a unified world government, considering the possible result that Christians might have no quarter and the general idea that government can become wicked. Everything else Pope Benedict did I really appreciate, but I differ with him on this point, which is political and not faith and morals.
 
I call your attention to the practice of “economic sanctions” which the U.S. (particularly
the oppressive anti-Christian Obama) imposes on any country in the world that opposes
it’s policies. The U.S. (the EU also and others) does this through FIUs (Financial Information Units/Authorities) that monitor banks and “block” or “hold” transactions in any bank in its region/authority from people or organizations or governments (even recently the Vatican Bank) they don’t approve or accuse of money laundering (basically, unapproved and untaxed money). All this is explained in US Law and in worldwide (online) banking regulations.

The financial control over everyone worldwide is and has been implemented this very day. All that’s left is the cooperation and aggreement between the few/several world powers to oppose Christians and Christianity together, including through these several FIUs.

Until recently, there was the practice among some banks of secrecy for their account holders (as in Switzerland), but the US has “forced” the Vatican and Switzerland and everyone else to deny secrecy to their account holders. All that’s over with, albeit that some people abused this priviledge of secrecy in order to avoid taxes.

Now, there is software for banks and financial institutions being used worldwide which monitors every transaction for “suspicious” (unapproved) activity and reports it to the
bank. Only the major approved merchants get a free pass. This too is reported on the internet.

Finally, the real problem with this absolute control over money by the few/several major world powers is not the curtailing of tax evasion but the abuse or persecution of people through it.

Should the Antichrist rise today or very soon, he would have all the financial power necessary in the world. We know he will come, and I don’t think we should make it easier for a few people in the world the control everything, especially the money.

Besides money, we can’t even communicate with each other today using devices without being monitored by the few powers in the world–worldwide!

Still, in my opinion the control over money and finances as well as the monitoring of all communications by a few evil people (especially when forming one world government) only prepares and helps the coming of the Antichrist.
Exactly, this is true,and again this is part of the new age, full.worldwide control over economic and finances so the age of Aquarius can fix all.The poverty left by Pisces, and then the next step.would.be divide the world.in seven regions. The reality of.this idea of new world.order is very far from being.Christian or.democratic.
 
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