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freeRadical
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content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1674980,00.html
Pope Clement V was a puppet of King Phillip IV of France and most historians agree with that.
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Pope Clement V was a puppet of King Phillip IV of France and most historians agree with that.
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ssancho
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This thread seems to be going horribly off-topic. 
Freemasons and computer chips aside, what opinions do those present have regarding the foundation of any global governance?
Freemasons and computer chips aside, what opinions do those present have regarding the foundation of any global governance?
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MicheleLMD
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I believe the New World Order is a freemason plan. Therefore I am opposed to any world wide government. When Christ returns and restores us, then and only then will we have peace. Man is fallen and right now we are witnessing the rule of man. For those who believe a NWO is good, show me one incorruptible man but for a government you would need a whole lot of incorruptible people and guarantee they will do what is best for the people. It hasn’t happened yet. You know who would lead this NWO? The same men who are running the world now only they would control all the world without resistance. At least now the leaders have to answer to their citizens at least they are supposed to. You really want someone in the Middle East, China, Russia running the world? These are not Christian nations, let alone Catholic. People assume the world would naturally be Catholic. That would not be the case. Religion would have to be either elliminated or homogenized. A watering down or consolidation of Christianity, Islam etc. it would result in apostasy.This thread seems to be going horribly off-topic.
Freemasons and computer chips aside, what opinions do those present have regarding the foundation of any global governance?
The Catholic Church can NOT change to suit the world. It is the world that needs to conform to The Catholic Church and God’s commandments. Again I will wait for Jesus to return as he left… IN GLORY.
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MicheleLMD
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You just disrespected another pope. You are basing your opinions on secular media?
That is not what I meant by researching. Time magazine? LOL!!! A history channel documentary written by a 26 year old director researched by a 21 year old intern on Wikipedia doesn’t count either. That is your source? Really? Ok back on Topic of this thread.
LOL!
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Honorius
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Perhaps you would care to talk about some of those examples for those of us watching this argument?I’m just trying to help you…its a well documented fact that Freemasonry has tried and has succeeded to some extent to “bring down the Catholic Church”. In fact, its so well documented, that that hasn’t even been my focus here on this thread. My focus is on the ways that Freemasonry acts similar to think tanks in that it tries to use money and people to influence the world.
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Honorius
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I will help freeRadical out and provide your respectable source: In volume V of The Story of Civilization, the historian Will Durant concurs with that notion. You most likely can find the book on the internet as I think the copyright has expired.
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Honorius
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If you are so learned, would you care to provide some examples and sources to the easily defended truth?:clapping:
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mikekle
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You are right about this, however most of the world (especially in the US) see it the opposite way, and think the church should change itself to be more inline with modern day views. What is scary, I feel many churches will fall for this, only to get more people coming.
One church in particular, I cannot think of what denomination they are, but I have seen the commercials for it quite often, they show younger people with crazy hair style, piercings, then show a gay couple, someone in a wheelchair, a police officer, etc. they are trying to say they accept anyone and everyone, they just want people coming to their church. This tells me they are willing to change some of their beliefs just to get more people coming to church. As much as I hate to admit it, I can see the catholic church doing the same thing eventually.
Right now, they are being pressured on homosexuality, everyone is telling them to start being more accepting of it, get with the times, etc. LOL One can only wonder what the next issue will be the church is asked to change its views on though!!!
I question what will happen when some gay man wants to be a priest and sues the church over this…in todays society, that person would win the suit.
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MicheleLMD
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It’s been decades since I read the actual books and studied the supposed dark history of the Church. I’d have to research this again to get the sources. The inquisition was most recently reviewed by the Vatican & historians poured over the actual records. Secular historians also. Not just Catholic, so they wouldn’t have been biased to defend the Church.
But there are credible sources that do not involve Wikipedia or secular news programming. You see how the media is skewed today. What makes you think history books can not also be slanted to the view of the wealthy who printed the books in their companies. It’s quite logical whoever has the money and the power can do whatever they want. If The Church opposes them they will attack Her. The Church is the only thing standing in the way of the elite powers who would like to pass immoral laws and reduce the population to mindless robots, trained to work in a box and go along with the flow.
Consider George Washington. When I went to school the text books told me of the moral wonderful man that led the country to freedom. He could not even tell a lie. They left out the part about owning brothels and not being Christian. He is a famous freemason.
So no history from that long ago is in question. It was not guided by the Holy Spirit therefore can be flat out wrong. However, historians who have access to the written documents or letters from people corresponding during that time can paint a more accurate view. The knights tem
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MicheleLMD
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Accidentally hit the send button. OOPS! On my iPhone. Small cumbersome screen & keyboard.
… The knights templar are the beginning of the Freemasons so by that reason alone I would not trust them. They hate the Church. It’s a long standing grudge so as a Catholic, I choose to believe that God’s Church and the Holy Spirit acted as was needed at that time.
When I hear a rumor about someone I know. Sometimes I just think “Yeah Right,I know she would never say that.” I know her character and know she isn’t capable of that behavior. But I also hear things occasionally and I think, “that is reasonable, I have heard them say that before.” By the character of the person we form opinions. They may be wrong and I’m not condoning gossip, but when you walk into a break room at work, you often overhear gossip while pouring your coffee. We must have a low opinion of God’s Church and the Holy Spirit’s guidance to believe the worst about The Church.
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MicheleLMD
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I see this also. When and if we ever have a one world governent on earth, the false prophet and antichrist will the leaders. I see how even Catholics think the Church needs to accept world views. Focus on the poor and the sick. Ignore abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia. No one ever went to Hell for being poor or sick. But they are running to hell out of ignorance because they embrace sin. They think by accepting it, it will cease to be sin. Just because people are nice doesn’t mean they can ignore God’s laws. God sends nice people to hell all the time. It is The Church’s responsibility to bring the truth to the world. To save souls for God.
We are living in a criticle age. The Church will either stand firm and lead the world to salvation or will be infested by those who want to embrace everyone, even if it comes at the price of apostasy. But those of us that stay true to God’s Commandments and refuse to accept error will remain. I know some pretty strong priests that would not stand for error. The Catechism mentions that the Church must follow in Christ’s path. She will enter the garden, be scourged, crowned with thorns, carry the cross and be crucified. She will appear dead. But just as Christ rose glorious and immortal so will His Church. So when you see Catholics in error, try to correct them. If they ignore you, leave it in God’s hands. Our Church sometimes looks like it’s dying, but the gates of hell will not prevail against her. We are the Church and we are here to stay!
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TEPO
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Examples of Freemasons bringing the Church down or examples of how Freemasons use money and people to influence the world?
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Honorius
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In his defense, if I recall, there was less ritual and pseudo religious things in the Freemasons before retired confederate general Albert Pike changed things up in the late 1800’s.
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Honorius
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Actually, the Freemasons trace their history back to the guilds of the middle ages. freemason.org/discoverMasonry/history.htm
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Honorius
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It would be nice if you could provide examples for both.
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Vouthon
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How strange then that George Washington was singled out for particular praise by Pope Leo XIII in a papal encyclical addressed to the Church in the United States:
I am British, so I have no nationalistic rationale for liking Washington, I am merely pointing out that he is respected by many Catholics.
Only a Catholic can be judged for disobeying the church by becoming a Freemason. A non-Catholic cannot since those guidelines are not binding on his conscience given his invincible ignorance of the truth.
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MicheleLMD
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I respect the role he played in founding the country and I don’t think the men who founded the USA expected that the fruits of their labor would end up so far from their vision. I’m sure if they could have caught a glimpse of our society today, they would have turned to God and established a truly Christian Country. I agree society has changed therefore what was scandalous back then versus now is exponentially greater.
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MicheleLMD
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I was only bringing up George Washington as the half truth that was presented to school kids when I was growing up. I still respect him as the first US President. But history books painted him to be saintly. He was a more complex man. He was a freemason so I would bet that his fellow freemasons wanted a spotless image of him engrained in the hearts of the people. I do not think Freemasons are all monsters. But freemasonry is incompatible with my Catholic Faith. My point was more about the passing down of information from generations past. We must rely on faith that we are being told the truth. The Bible was inspired by The Holy Spirit. The Church is protected by The Holy Spirit. History books are not always accurate. They can slant history based on what side of the story you are telling.
If the Pope respected him then he must have had reason. I also respect him and the office of the president of the United States. I’m not an expert on Washington or the early presidents. But I trust the Pope was basing this on reports since I doubt the two ever met or corresponded. I concede to the Pope. I will trust his judgement. I’ll have to read the document later. I’m on my phone, laptop is nearly dead so it’s going to be a while before I can read it. But I added if to my reading list.
I’m curious because you are from England, were you taught that America rebelled due to the tyrany of King George? I doubt it. More like we didn’t want to pay taxes and obey the King?
I am very curious. Please enlighten me. This has just peaked my interest. God bless you.
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Vouthon
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Nah.
Early American history was not really taught to us in a major way. We did cover it and it was conducted in a largely unbiased fashion from what I can recall. Our history classes in primary to secondary school studied such topics as: the Victorians, the Middle Ages (100 years war, Joan of Arc, Renaissance), the Civil Rights Movement in the US in the 20th century, Nazi Germany and the Two World Wars…What we were taught about the American revolution: I learned about the Boston Tea Party. “No tax without representation”. The revolutionaries appealed to traditional English liberties that they claimed were being denied to them in the colonies. It wasn’t black-and-white. The revolution was described as not only reactionary in nature but also forward-looking, influenced by ideals of constitutional government, popular sovereignty and religious freedom. It was shown in a positive light, I must say.
There was an impartial overview of the era, nonetheless, looking for example at British concerns as well as American. For example, Britain had recognized the Catholic Church in Quebec and granted freedom of religion as well as privileges to those Canadian subjects. Some anti-Catholics among the American revolutionaries used this as reason to rebel against the King because he had “gone soft” for the “papists”
Nevertheless, a Catholic signed the Declaration of Independence in Philadelphia. So, as I say, its"grey". There were valid concerns on both sides and this was communicated to me when I was taught about it.
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MicheleLMD
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Ok I read the quote you included. Yes America was helped by France and Spain, Catholic nations. So it makes sense that there would be a relationship formed between the Church and the early revolutionaries. I think the Church had a reason to oppose England back then. LOL! Sorry. So that probably made the alliance easier. Again I concede to the Church.
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