Are you literally on fire if you go to hell?

[tonyrey]

IV. HELL

**1033 **We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

**1034 **Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

**1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”**617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

**1036 **The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

1037** God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a wilful turning away from God **(a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

**Hell is not a trap into which we fall but a destiny we choose…
**

 

[tonyrey]

Maybe you should think about God’s truth instead of dreaming up reasons not to believe the Bible. Hyperbole! Ha!

You should make sure of your facts before you accuse others of disbelieving the Bible. An apology is required…

 

[belorg]

I agree that wording did not sound right.

The damned choose a lesser, temporary good - love of self, the world, pleasure, pride, etc.

Some will say, “if they knew God, then they never would have chosen Hell”. So, it is claimed that God is punishing people who really didn’t know what to do.

But that is not true because the voice of conscience teaches us what to do. If you go against your conscience, you’re going against your own well-being.

My voice of conscience tells me to be an atheist. So, I don’t go against my conscience. does that mean I won’t burn in hell?

 

[reggieM]

My voice of conscience tells me to be an atheist. So, I don’t go against my conscience. does that mean I won’t burn in hell?

This sounds like a hypothetical and not a real example from your life. But anyway …

If you listen to your voice of conscience and seek to follow it, then that has big consequences. Generally, a conscience doesn’t simply say “be an atheist”. It’s about your actions every day. If you listen to your conscience and examine it daily, you’ll discover more than just the command to be an atheist. You’ll find a way to judge your actions and your moral progress. When you do something wrong, your conscience will tell you.

So, you’ll discover that there are some things that you’ve done wrong. That’s your conscience teaching you.

You might think that your conscience tells you to be an atheist.

But does your conscience tell you to commit sins of pride, dishonesty, envy, sinful anger towards others, lust, gluttony, theft, etc?

You may say: “I have never committed any of those sins”.
Or perhaps: “I have never committed any sins at all”.

That would be remarkable and amazing.

Generally speaking, the most common way we recognize our conscience speaking to us is through the experience of guilt for sin.

So, the important thing is to be very honest and sincere. If your conscience reveals the guilt of sin – then there’s a problem. Will that sin send you to Hell?

You may think that you are following your conscience in being an atheist, but no - that doesn’t mean you will go to heaven. You can be “innocent” of being an atheist, but damned for other sins that your conscience warned you about.

Finally – it’s about sincerity, honesty and making a real effort.

If you listen to your conscience and you are an atheist, then you’re at least making the right steps towards goodness and integrity as a person.

But as a more technical and simple answer to your question (I think you’re asking): If your conscience has been malformed (misinformed) in your life, and you do what you sincerely think is right, then yes, that counts as moral goodness.

But there are many problems … you would also have to make a serious effort to rightly inform your conscience as best you can.

For example, you would have to ask yourself seriously … How can I say there is no God when I see so many people who believe? Have I tried to pray? Have I taken the advice of people who suggest that I learn about God with sincerity of heart? Have I sincerely tried to understand the arguments for the existence of God, the divinity of Christ, miracles, the Catholic faith? Do I truly have enough information to know, definitively, that God does not exist?

If you answer “no” to those questions – then what would your conscience say?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, the catechism, and Christ Himself, speak of eternal fire.

And we know that in eternity we will have souls and bodies.

So, that being said, why would a person’s ‘body’ be immune from pain while his ‘soul’ is eternally ‘on fire’? Isn’t it kind of unfair to give the person physical comfort while the soul is in agony? Isn’t it equally strange to imagine a person suffering eternal physical torment but the soul is immune from pain?

If you have one part of the person being affected (soul) then the other part (body) must be equally affected.

Same with heaven. You don’t have people up in heaven experiencing joy of soul while the body is wracked with physical pain, right? And you aren’t having physical perfect joy while your soul is miserable contemplating the ‘poor souls in hell’. . .

I just don’t understand why people insist on separating our souls and our bodies. What one ‘feels’, the other feels in eternity. . .

 

[dingodile]

If you accept the “argument from desire,” i.e., the notion that we all have an innate desire to know God directly and personally, then perhaps hell can be understood in light of that argument. Saint Thomas, after all, argued that all mortal desires ultimately aim at God, and can only be ultimately fulfilled in God. This entails that all lesser desires must eventually fail to fulfill us.

Fire is a common metaphor for desire. One may be said to be “burning” with desire, etc.

Most of us, in this life, fail to recognize the desire for God, so we occupy ourselves with other desires. Some people eventually discover that these other desires fail to bring us fulfillment and peace. But Thomas’s idea is that eventually all of us eventually discover this.

So, we may imagine that hell is a “place” where this process continues indefinitely. We continue to occupy ourselves with other desires, and they continue to fail us, until eventually all that is left is the burning desire for God, but it’s too late to satisfy that desire.

Hell is a place where you must desire forever what was freely offered before and rejected.

Does that make sense?

 

[tonyrey]

My voice of conscience tells me to be an atheist. So, I don’t go against my conscience. does that mean I won’t burn in hell?

You won’t burn in hell whatever you do! (Otherwise you would eventually disappear…

 

[tonyrey]

If you accept the “argument from desire,” i.e., the notion that we all have an innate desire to know God directly and personally, then perhaps hell can be understood in light of that argument. Saint Thomas, after all, argued that all mortal desires ultimately aim at God, and can only be ultimately fulfilled in God. This entails that all lesser desires must eventually fail to fulfill us.

Fire is a common metaphor for desire. One may be said to be “burning” with desire, etc.

Most of us, in this life, fail to recognize the desire for God, so we occupy ourselves with other desires. Some people eventually discover that these other desires fail to bring us fulfillment and peace. But Thomas’s idea is that eventually all of us eventually discover this.

So, we may imagine that hell is a “place” where this process continues indefinitely. We continue to occupy ourselves with other desires, and they continue to fail us, until eventually all that is left is the burning desire for God, but it’s too late to satisfy that desire.

Hell is a place where you must desire forever what was freely offered before and rejected.

Does that make sense?

It makes good sense - apart from the fact that hell is not a place because it is not physical but spiritual… Neither is heaven for that matter!

 

[tonyrey]

Well, the catechism, and Christ Himself, speak of eternal fire.

And we know that in eternity we will have souls and bodies.

So, that being said, why would a person’s ‘body’ be immune from pain while his ‘soul’ is eternally ‘on fire’? Isn’t it kind of unfair to give the person physical comfort while the soul is in agony? Isn’t it equally strange to imagine a person suffering eternal physical torment but the soul is immune from pain?

If you have one part of the person being affected (soul) then the other part (body) must be equally affected.

Same with heaven. You don’t have people up in heaven experiencing joy of soul while the body is wracked with physical pain, right? And you aren’t having physical perfect joy while your soul is miserable contemplating the ‘poor souls in hell’. . .

I just don’t understand why people insist on separating our souls and our bodies. What one ‘feels’, the other feels in eternity. . .

After death the body is resurrected: it is not physical but spiritual. God is not in a particular **place **nor is anyone else.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

After death the body is resurrected: it is not physical but spiritual. God is not in a particular **place **nor is anyone else.

oh I think I see your problem. You have misunderstood the nature of the human person in eternity. Our bodies do not change to become nothing but ‘spiritual’ bodies. Our soul and our body are GLORIFIED but the glorified body is still a PHYSICAL body.

 

[tonyrey]

oh I think I see your problem. You have misunderstood the nature of the human person in eternity. Our bodies do not change to become nothing but ‘spiritual’ bodies. Our soul and our body are GLORIFIED but the glorified body is still a PHYSICAL body.

Then we can never be in heaven because - as Jesus said - God is spirit and has no body - and heaven is not a physical but a **spiritual **realm.

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

After death the body is resurrected: it is not physical but spiritual. God is not in a particular **place **nor is anyone else.

You might try reading the Creed. The resurrection of the body is a required belief of Catholicism.

What was Mary talking about at Fatima when she said she wanted everyone to say the prayer, “Jesus, **save us from the fires of Hell **and lead all souls to heaven especially those in most need of thy mercy?”

Why were the children frightened when Mary showed them what Hell looks like?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Then we can never be in heaven because - as Jesus said - God is spirit and has no body - and heaven is not a physical but a **spiritual **realm.

Um, tony, JESUS is in Heaven. Doesn’t He have a body? And Mary too?

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

You won’t burn in hell whatever you do! (Otherwise you would eventually disappear…

Jesus is our savior. What do you think he saves us from?

 

[tonyrey]

Jesus is our savior. What do you think he saves us from?

Hell! In other words self-inflicted isolation from God as the result of pride, selfishness and the lust for absolute independence and total power over ourselves.

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

Hell! In other words self-inflicted isolation from God as the result of pride, selfishness and the lust for absolute independence and total power over ourselves.

Now all you need to know is what Hell is.

 

[tonyrey]

Hell! In other words self-inflicted isolation from God as the result of pride, selfishness and the lust for absolute independence and total power over ourselves.

I don’t claim to be an infallible expert on the subject - unlike those who imply that I am mistaken without giving any reasons for their disagreement with my view. I certainly don’t claim to have personal experience of what it is like… so far…

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

Who in their right mind would choose to go to “a place of absolute terror” where they are “tortured and tormented by demons”? Hell is certainly not a lunatic asylum!

It is actually. Someone with free will choosing sin rather than God, could be described as nothing less than insane. The demons? They were very intelligent beings, yet they decided they didn’t want God. It’s called free will.

God didn’t make us puppets. We ultimately choose where we want to go. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

You can believe in fairy tales if you like. As Mother Angelica said about people who died in great sin, “Now they know.” …And so will you know when you die.

Great visionaries have seen hell; the children at Fatima, St. Bernadette, countless other saints… There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.

 

[GEddie]

After death the body is resurrected: it is not physical but spiritual. God is not in a particular **place **nor is anyone else.

No; a BODY is by definition physical, even if using a “spiritual” source of life. A non-physical body is an oxymoron, like watery fire, or a straight circle.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Then we can never be in heaven because - as Jesus said - God is spirit and has no body - and heaven is not a physical but a **spiritual **realm.

There will ultimately be bodies in both Hell and Heaven: and bodies need a PLACE to move around in.

ICXC NIKA