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CMatt25
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:clapping: Exactly
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Gurney,
I know you are very passionate about your position on women’s ordination. I respect that, and you may very well be right. I just don’t understand why some Scriptures about women stuck and some did not. Can you help with any of my questions in my last post?
Anna
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Glorthac
Guest
If I can butt in, you have to realize your understanding of those Scriptures might be un-Catholic. That’s the thing about Catholicism, the Church interprets Scripture its way, in an anti-womens ordination way. If you want to know how the Church interprets your questioned Scriptures, do some research. It’s at your fingertips.
And the last Protestant church I attended (before I decided to convert) had a woman pastor. She was nice, and did a good job, but the church was very small, less than 50 people. My impression was, if you want women pastors, be prepared to have your denomination shrink massively.
BTW, I’m anti-womens ordination. You must submit to the Church. That’s the rule.
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CMatt25
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Catholics here are saying Protestant clergy are not ordained. That they are lay.Why is it a contradiction?
Non-catholic clergy can baptize their folks. Catholics have priests/deacons to be the normative way our folks are baptized.
Where’s the contradiction?
But the lay are not to baptize except in instances of grave danger to another’s life.
Yet Catholics accept the many Baptisms celebrated by these Protestant so called “non ordained” “lay” folks even when in most cases life was not in danger.
So either they are ordained performing many accepted Baptisms.
Or they are lay performing too many Baptisms but which are still accepted.
If suddenly laity began baptizing all of these people for who death was not imminent, would that be fine?
So since they are performing more Baptisms than laity should, that leaves the option that they are ordained ministers of Baptism.
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Hiskid1973
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Just a few comments…Anna I just used your post to respond, as I think we should boil things down a bit…Who/what position(s) need to be (ordained)?.Clearly women were part of the early church ministry. It’s also clear for a bishop to be husband of one wife…That’s telling me certain leadership positions are for men to be in authority…Is a bishop the same position as a priest ? I see elder and deacon…In our church we have couples as deacons/deaconess…Our pastor and his wife both have pastoral training but she has no position there apart of being on the worship team…She is the head of a small local drug/alcohol ministry…I see no issue with other ministry positions…I do see males in the leadership positions…In Christ we are equal…
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Anna_Scott
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Glorthac,
I asked some questions in my post above that should be simple for a Catholic to answer. Here’s your chance to share your perspective with me.
Please don’t assume that I haven’t done any research.
Peace,
Anna
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Hiskid1973,
I appreciate your sharing your viewpoint, but I asked some specific questions in my post. I’m hoping someone will answer them.
Anna
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Well some of the attitudes that Paul shows in Corinthians reflect the view of women that people in the Hellenistic world had at that time, which were not pretty IMO. If you look at my arguments against women’s ordination, I rarely cite Paul. I don’t view things through that lens. The head coverings, the segregation, the no women as lectors, all that stuff, that was the set of cultural norms for the time.
I look at women’s ordination from the vantage point of the sacerdotal ministry of Christ sacrificing Himself on the altar through the priest who stands in persona christi, a father for his flock, not a mother. I look at the theology of the priesthood and what is accomplishes and it is a male essence that is encapsulates, not a female, motherly one. I also look at what choices Jesus made as the Master who installed the apostles, no women involved. And I look holistically at the overall traditions from the Fathers until today.
Things like women wearing head coverings, sitting on the other side of the Church, not being allowed to speak, all that nonsense was a cultural set of biases that those contemporaries of Paul had. We don’t need to carry such attitudes today but we must maintain the integrity of the sacrificial priesthood. That’s my angle.
It’s sad because many (not you, I know!) draw a conclusion that anyone who passionately (like me) is opposed to W.O. must be anti-woman. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I were a chauvenist, I’d say so. I’m a straight shooter. I have a wife, a daughter, and a mom whom I all love and think have more common sense and ingenuity than me! My wife is far brighter, more level-headed, reasonable, common sense, and intuitive as well as talented than me! Women are not worth half a man or any of that insanity, they’re not inferior or less valuable. It boils down to destined roles God gives us and I think ontologically motherhood and fatherhood are ingrained in our being.
I look at women’s ordination from the vantage point of the sacerdotal ministry of Christ sacrificing Himself on the altar through the priest who stands in persona christi, a father for his flock, not a mother. I look at the theology of the priesthood and what is accomplishes and it is a male essence that is encapsulates, not a female, motherly one. I also look at what choices Jesus made as the Master who installed the apostles, no women involved. And I look holistically at the overall traditions from the Fathers until today.
Things like women wearing head coverings, sitting on the other side of the Church, not being allowed to speak, all that nonsense was a cultural set of biases that those contemporaries of Paul had. We don’t need to carry such attitudes today but we must maintain the integrity of the sacrificial priesthood. That’s my angle.
It’s sad because many (not you, I know!) draw a conclusion that anyone who passionately (like me) is opposed to W.O. must be anti-woman. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I were a chauvenist, I’d say so. I’m a straight shooter. I have a wife, a daughter, and a mom whom I all love and think have more common sense and ingenuity than me! My wife is far brighter, more level-headed, reasonable, common sense, and intuitive as well as talented than me! Women are not worth half a man or any of that insanity, they’re not inferior or less valuable. It boils down to destined roles God gives us and I think ontologically motherhood and fatherhood are ingrained in our being.
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benedictus2
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Well then you diverge with Christ’s view.
Yeah, I suppose that could be. After all I am only female and hold a significant position at the company I work for.
But I have never really relished bossing anyone around. Still I do that every now and again 
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benedictus2
Guest
Good choice of word PR. Impoverished indeed.
I would highly recommend Sarah Butler’ book “The Catholic Priesthood and Women: A Guide to the Teaching of the Church on the topic.” Sarah Butler is a nun who was very much pro-priestesses till she started doing some research whereupon she completely changed her mind.
I recommend reading this link as well.
ewtn.com/library/issues/whywomen.txt
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benedictus2
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And here’s another interesting thing. Advocates of priestesses do not really recognize that. I have read of one convent where they have a painting of a naked female (not sure if crucified) and she referred to as Christa.
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benedictus2
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Before someone jumps down my throat for what I am about to say let it be known that I am female. But what you say is true. This seems to be quite common with us women. And I am not having a jab at my own gender. The bad bit is usually the counterpoint to the good bit. So perhaps this is the flip side of our nurturing nature.
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benedictus2
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The sinful practices well we are all sinners.
But the sinful teaching, that’s what happens when you break away from the truth of Christ.
If it is only the practice that is sinful, then there is still a chance to turn back because we can always re-align our practice with our teaching.
The problem with this situation is that, because the teaching has gone bad, then the moral reference point disappears. The sin becomes acceptable hence the practice becomes entrenched. Murder is no longer a sin, murder is all okay and all in a day’s work. So let’s get rid of that pesky interloper in the woman’s belly. Next.
This is why I always emphasize to those who criticize the Church for the short coming of her members, Jesus did not promise that the Church will be free from sin but that she will be safeguarded against error. We sin, but we know that we sin hence we can still ask for forgiveness and be renewed.
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dzheremi
Guest
The collections of the sayings of the Desert Fathers actually record about 50 sayings attributed to the Desert Mothers, female ascetics living in desert monastic communities in Egypt, Palestine, and Syria in the 4th and 5th centuries. Despite the relative slim collection of sayings (in comparison to the Desert Fathers, who related the sayings of the Mothers), they were incredibly influential and respected in their time. Amma Syncletica of Alexandria really speaks to me, and in her illumination of Christian faith is the equal of any man. Who can say that these women did not have power just because they were not priests? They put all the “female clergy” of today to shame. The feminist brats parading around in priests’ clothing give real Christian women of faith and substance like the Desert Mothers a bad name.
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benedictus2
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:clapping::clapping::clapping:
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benedictus2
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And I am nauseated by Atheist dribble
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benedictus2
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Why don’t you start it and see the reaction.
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benedictus2
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And there’s the rub. It is not up to you or me to decide what is true or not. Your belief does not determine what is true. My belief does not determine it either.
Ultimately it is Christ who decides. He decided against priestesses. Because His father decided against priestesses long before that.
And yes, we are aware that yo don’t care much what Jesus thinks about the matter. That is plainly obvious.
That other so called Christian religions have ventured down the pagan way by appointing priestesses is a really a matter of concern for Christians.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
They don’t impress me much. For one thing I haven’t yet heard a good femaie preacher, although my experience is **very **limited. The only time I heard a female preach in my Protestant days i wasn’t very impressed. For a start she appeared bossy. And the particular issue she spoke on in my opinion was a mountain made out of a molehill.
My old Protestant pastor made two comments when I asked him about the issue. The first was that “It’s hard enough to get men into the church now without a woman preaching at them” (he was serious), and “Women find it hard to keep a secret.” I even remember a secular female journalist jokingly referring to the same characteristic, writing that she found it hard to resist the temptation to go "bustling up to her female compatriots, bristling with self importance, and proclaiming, ‘You’d never guess what I just heard…!’
I suppose he was saying he’d be dubious about confessing to a woman in reconciliation.
Bishop Fulton Sheen put it more bluntly - it had nothing to do with ability, but the fact is the man is the one who “sows the seed”. The woman nurtures it. If the seed is the Word of God, it is the man’s job to sow, and the woman’s to nurture.
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JohnnyReb
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Why do Catholics on this forum always say things like this and make character judgements against people they do not know? Because we don’t belong to your church and agree with its teachings? Remember that libel and slander are not only illegal, but fruits of the sinful nature as well. I know where I stand with God. His spirit confirms to me that I am a child of God. Thanks.And there’s the rub. It is not up to you or me to decide what is true or not. Your belief does not determine what is true. My belief does not determine it either.
Ultimately it is Christ who decides. He decided against priestesses. Because His father decided against priestesses long before that.
And yes, we are aware that yo don’t care much what Jesus thinks about the matter. That is plainly obvious.
That other so called Christian religions have ventured down the pagan way by appointing priestesses is a really a matter of concern for Christians.
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