Are you offended/disturbed by female clergy in Protestantism?

[benedictus2]

Why do Catholics on this forum always say things like this and make character judgements against people they do not know?

Where’s the character judgement?

Is it the

benedictus2:

And yes, we are aware that yo don’t care much what Jesus thinks about the matter. That is plainly obvious.

bit?

But that follows from :

benedictus2:

And there’s the rub. It is not up to you or me to decide what is true or not. Your belief does not determine what is true. My belief does not determine it either.

Which was in response to

we believed that the Catholic church had any special authority in that matter ".

The point of my post is that “what we believe does not determine what is true or not.” Christ determines that. And in choosing only men, then that was Christ’s will. Anyone who disagrees with that, therefore disagrees not with the Church who is merely following Christ, but Christ Himself. Is that clear enough?

Ultimately it is Christ who decides. He decided against priestesses. Because His father decided against priestesses long before that.

Because we don’t belong to your church and agree with its teachings? Remember that libel and slander are not only illegal, but fruits of the sinful nature as well.

As I have shown above, there was no libel or slander. There was only a statement of fact.

Now if you think they are wrong, then show where the error is. Else hold your peace as they say in wedding ceremonies.

I know where I stand with God. His spirit confirms to me that I am a child of God. Thanks.

Did I say otherwise?

 

[Sarabande]

No, I’m not disturbed or offended if Protestants faiths have females ministers/pastors. They are not Catholic. Although, I’ve always thought they looked funny in the traditional male collars and attire worn by ministers/pastors. My best friend is actually becoming an Episcopal priest. I don’t plan on calling her by her formal name, though… we’ve known each other since we were wee ones.

 

[benedictus2]

** And, most importantly:
Why do women feel undermined when they cannot enter priesthood? Women perform a role that men can never do. Mothers! Pregnancy! Feeding! Children do spent more times with mothers in normal circumstances. **

But that is just it. Feminists hate the fact that they are female and have to put up with this punishment of having to be mothers .

That in itself should be an alert to what this is really all about.

Feminists are at the forefront of the mass slaughter of children in their mother’s womb.

 

[benedictus2]

A woman cannot be a priest, but she can be a protestant pastor according to protestant theology, which makes sense within its own system. Its an interpretation of Scripture in this area, where they utilize some scripture passages, with which the Catholic Church is not concerned. One of them is: “In the end times, I will pour out My Spirit over ALL flesh”.
And women were standing at the first Alter/the Cross of Jesus, and Mary of Magdala went as the first to proclaim the resurrection to the Apostles.

The protestants don’t have the hierarchal thinking and ordination teaching that we have as Catholics, because they interpret the Bible in a different way. In my oppinion you ought to respect their ministers greatly, even if you don’t agree with protestant interpretation.

That is why we have nuns. We have nuns who teach, nuns who minister to the sick, nuns who are sent out to the poor.

There is a lot of ministerial work within the Catholic Church but the priesthood should be left the way Jesus intended.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Where’s the character judgement?

Perhaps your point wasn’t being communicated clearly and you weren’t trying to across that way. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt. You did say that it was obvious that I didn’t care about Christ’s teachings. Sorry, but you don’t know that.

Which was in response to The point of my post is that “what we believe does not determine what is true or not.” Christ determines that. And in choosing only men, then that was Christ’s will. Anyone who disagrees with that, therefore disagrees not with the Church who is merely following Christ, but Christ Himself. Is that clear enough?

See above, I think what you were trying to say may have come across the wrong way, and frankly maybe I should stay off the forums in the morning before I have had two cups of coffee.

 

[benedictus2]

Sure, I would hope that anyone who considers him or herself **a Christian ultimately cares about what Christ’s truth is, and knows that it is he who decides, **not us.

Excellent! And that is exactly my point. So, since ultimately it has to be Christ’s decision, and we know that He has already DECIDED that men are the ones He wants for the priesthood, what makes us think that we can contravene this because we believe we can?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I would be careful with this line of thought.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that Protestants are our separated brothers and sisters in Christ, and have a hope of obtaining eternal life. The CCC states that all non-Catholic Christian churches have a “portion” of the Gospel.

Speaking as an ex-Protestant, I can state that my upbringing and experiences in the Protestant churches helped me to find my way home to the Catholic Church. Because of all the excellent Bible teaching I received from Protestant teachers and pastors, I was able to recognize Jesus in the Eucharist when I first started attending Mass at our neighborhood Catholic parish, and I was able to see that the Catholic Church is the Church that teaches and practices the Bible word-for-word.

One other thing that the CCC teaches is that Catholics are to be diligent to continue to open doors and maintain a dialogue with Protestants.

I respectfully suggest that your statement about the existence of the non-Catholic organizations wounding the Body of Christ is hurtful and does not serve to maintain a dialogue between yourself and Protestants. Instead, it would more than likely cause non-Catholic Christians to turn away from you and possibly from the Catholic Church.

I humbly suggest that perhaps a more peaceful, charitable, and conciliatory approach will accomplish what you and all of us want to see–a return of Protestants to Holy Mother Church.

I think you can see from my posts that I am not a liberal or a wimp, and I’m not suggesting that you back down from speaking out against untruths and incorrect teaching when someone asks you straight out (as the OP did in this thread). I’m just suggesting that you ease up on the harshness, and above all, refrain from saying things that seem to be not quite what what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches.

Your experience with Protestantism was obviously different from my own. I was taught that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, Catholics are not Christians, and they were all doomed to hell unless they repented of their false religion and became one of us. I heard these vitriolic denunciations and more in Sunday School and from the pulpit almost weekly for many years. Believing that Sola Scriptura was the bedrock doctrine of Christianity, I became an agnostic and eventually an atheist. I remained in that black pit for years until, by God’s grace, I came to know true Christianity through a most unusual circumstance. I don’t usually think about my Protestant past, but when I do it conjures up ugly and painful memories. I do regard all Protestants as my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I’m critical of Protestant institutions.

Jim Dandy

 

[gamewell45]

I wasn’t sure where to put this topic but it seemed to fit here I guess.

Anyway, I was walking through the shopping mall recently and saw a woman wearing a Roman collar and walking with a Bible and I remembered that my local Anglican church has a female Vicar (think thats what they call her, maybe Reverend). I must admit, I was taken aback and felt… odd. It made me feel odd because, well, the Priesthood is what it is and a woman attempting to fill that role is unnatural. I don’t know if that makes sense.

This is besides those female clergy who are openly lesbian and have partners. I remember watching an American show with 2 female vicars who were married lesbians and one shot of them had them up on the altar with bread and wine and it gave me the chills.

I’m not offended in any way. The Episcopal Church ordains women priests so for us its perfectly normal. Most likely your only used to seeing men as Priests so its only natural that you might feel that way.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I’m a Catholic that thinks that Protestant clergy are ordained.

When I was a very young Southern Baptist, watching a Southern Baptist minister ordain another Southern Baptist man, I suddenly realized that they were going through the motions, but the one ordaining had no power and no authority to effect change in the other. I was just beginning to study Baptist history, and it seemed to me very much like John Smyth baptising himself in Amsterdam in 1609. He must also have ordained himself, since he was the first Baptist.

Jim Dandy

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Nothing like employing a little self-baptism and self-ordination? Weird? I wonder if he confessed to himself as well?

When I was a very young Southern Baptist, watching a Southern Baptist minister ordain another Southern Baptist man, I suddenly realized that they were going through the motions, but the one ordaining had no power and no authority to effect change in the other. I was just beginning to study Baptist history, and it seemed to me very much like John Smyth baptising himself in Amsterdam in 1609. He must also have ordained himself, since he was the first Baptist.

Jim Dandy

 

[MissMarlene]

That is why we have nuns. We have nuns who teach, nuns who minister to the sick, nuns who are sent out to the poor.

There is a lot of ministerial work within the Catholic Church but the priesthood should be left the way Jesus intended.

Forgive me sir, but “we” is a bit narrow minded in this sense. You are not talking about we, because protestants and evangelicals do not normally have nuns as we know them.
If you want to be respected as a Catholic and you wish Protestants to understand
Catholicism then you also have to attemtp to understand them and their interpretation of Scripture.
Women pastors and nuns are two very different things.
Pastors in the protestant church lead the Holy Supper, as they understand it, they preach, they baptise and they go to the hospitals to comfort and pray with the dying. The verses they use in the New Testament are the ones about the ordinary priesthood: We are a people of priests, prophets and kings.
Now we know, as Catholics, that the Magisterium and tradition have the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible correctly, but that is part of our faith.
You can’t yell about your feelings and belittle the faith of others. Protestant ministers, women and men, serve God to the best of their knowlege in these leadership positions, and they believe that you are the one who is in error about what Jesus really intended. Its a matter of faith, but please try to understand instead of making emotional overgeneralizing remarks about how people who have various calls in other churches should simply become nuns…

 

[MissMarlene]

benedictus2:
But that is just it. Feminists hate the fact that they are female and have to put up with this punishment of having to be mothers .

That in itself should be an alert to what this is really all about.

Feminists are at the forefront of the mass slaughter of children in their mother’s womb.

This oversimplistic pointing-at-the-bad-women is one of the things that drive me nuts when I meet the combination of conservative and ignorant.

Sir, you should start studying Marx and Engels whose views on family and motherhood have been very much to blame for the state of things in the western world, and then please also, tell me if the male population in western societies are all feminists… because I doubt they would call themselves by that name, but they take *100 percent *part in the abortions of their own children. This is not a feminist issue only okay so please leave you feminists- this-and-feminists that- rhetorics out of this debate and start viewing the world with some nuance.

 

[ChadS]

When I was a very young Southern Baptist, watching a Southern Baptist minister ordain another Southern Baptist man, I suddenly realized that they were going through the motions, but the one ordaining had no power and no authority to effect change in the other. I was just beginning to study Baptist history, and it seemed to me very much like John Smyth baptising himself in Amsterdam in 1609. He must also have ordained himself, since he was the first Baptist.

Jim Dandy

I haven’t claimed or implied anywhere that the Protestant ministers have some sort of ontological change that occurs in them when they are ordained. They certainly aren’t ordained to a sacrificial ministry, like Catholic priests are. My point is that for the various Protestants they are ordained for the ministry their church has set out and according to that church’s guidelines. I’m not trying to equate the two at all, but I don’t think it’s helpful to think of the local minister as nothing more than a glorified lay person.

As for self-baptizing and the such, that just seems like a stretch in anybody’s book.

ChadS

 

[Samuel63]

Primary support for the abortion agenda is by women.

The development of the abortion industry in america, 1.2 million dead per year now, is the result of the leadership of Margaret Sanger. Her efforts were supported by Nazi germany. She cooperated with the germans for a while.

Husbands do not participate 100% in the abortions that take place. This is the position women take. Men in some cases, probably a minor amount, do not want the abortion.

For the case of contraception, which causes an early-term abortion in cases of conception, about 5 to 10% of the time, men and women are not even aware. The souls denied natural life are plenty aware.

The affects of contraception and abortion are to remove women’s identity. Women are robbed of their nurturing role, their ability to bring forth life, and possibly even the life of their soul. It is up to women to take back their identity and help fight this spiritual battle.

 

[MissMarlene]

Primary support for the abortion agenda is by women.

The development of the abortion industry in america, 1.2 million dead per year now, is the result of the leadership of Margaret Sanger. Her efforts were supported by Nazi germany. She cooperated with the germans for a while.

Husbands do not participate 100% in the abortions that take place. This is the position women take. Men in some cases, probably a minor amount, do not want the abortion.

For the case of contraception, which causes an early-term abortion in cases of conception, about 5 to 10% of the time, men and women are not even aware. The souls denied natural life are plenty aware.

The affects of contraception and abortion are to remove women’s identity. Women are robbed of their nurturing role, their ability to bring forth life, and possibly even the life of their soul. It is up to women to take back their identity and help fight this spiritual battle.

Primary support eh?
Sure you might say that women are most effected by abortion or not-abortion in any case, so they are more oppininated and visible on the scene perhaps than most secular men, who just wanna have their fun and are indifferent to the consequences.
Feminism is not indifferent to women by the way, you should study the roots more carefully, and also understand the responsibility of men leading up to feminism… which also great thinkers like JP2 recognized… yet feminism give the wrong solutions to the problems which are also problems by the way which are owned by men as much as by women…

Now, from what I have studied about this both genders represent the same statistical number who are pro-choice.
When a woman becomes pregnant there are two people involved. Some of the time its the woman who wishes to abort and some of the time its the man.
Sometimes both and sometimes none. Whenever there is even just one person, the risk is big, that an abortion is chosen.

Any logically thinking person knows not to point the finger at any one gender for this huge tragedy. Every time a person watches pornography or sleeps with a person without commitment that person potentially says yes to abortion.
In other words, everything in society that leads up to abortion must be dealt with and responsibility must be taken by ALL.

If you want such a simplistic view of history as to point at one woman and say: she did it! then I might point at the majority of male politicians in all the Western world who legalised porn, low age of consent, prostitution and abortion… all these are inter twined.

But I don’t reason like that because I know that since the fall in the beginning, Adam and Eve are in the mess together, and they made it together, even as Adam never stops making that first symptom of his depravaty visible to the world: the blaming of Eve…

 

[PRmerger]

Forgive me sir, but “we” is a bit narrow minded in this sense. You are not talking about we, because protestants and evangelicals do not normally have nuns as we know them.

As this is a Catholic forum, Miss, we are certainly free to have the antecedent for “we” be “we Catholics”.

 

[MissMarlene]

Your experience with Protestantism was obviously different from my own. I was taught that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, the Pope is the anti-Christ, Catholics are not Christians, and they were all doomed to hell unless they repented of their false religion and became one of us. I heard these vitriolic denunciations and more in Sunday School and from the pulpit almost weekly for many years. Believing that Sola Scriptura was the bedrock doctrine of Christianity, I became an agnostic and eventually an atheist. I remained in that black pit for years until, by God’s grace, I came to know true Christianity through a most unusual circumstance. I don’t usually think about my Protestant past, but when I do it conjures up ugly and painful memories. I do regard all Protestants as my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I’m critical of Protestant institutions.

Jim Dandy

I am sorry for your pain.
I think that in America there is much more a battle going on between the denominations and churches than anywhere else in the world. (it seems to be the same with the man-against women phenomenon, which is clearly evident in some American Catholicism as we also see on this thread and which is unthinkable where I am).
I live in Europe and have been to numerous non-Catholic services in Evangelical and Protestant churches. I never heard bashing of Catholicism in those many churches, except for one time when I went to some very small non-denom. group who’d been reading too much American fiction on the end-times.
My mother is a Protestant, and when I became Catholic she seemed actuaaly proud, because I was serious about my faith, and she loved Pope JP2.
I have so many non-Catholic friends who are active Christians. Sometimes they might be very sceptical about, say, Mary or the saints, or our form of worship, but they never say such stuff like what you experienced.

In my personal life I am greatly inspired by Evangelical testimonies and ministries… I have experienced the best preaching from them, seen most spontaneous healing from illnesses in their services, and the best use of the charismatic gifts according to the early church-example. St. Paul said: When you come together one shall bring this gift, another that gift… and etc.

There I saw Jesus words in action: “who is not against Me is for Me” and I have no doubt that many of them are really anointed by God to carry out their ministries, as pastors, prophets and healers etc…

We shall know people, also within Catholicism no matter what their title or office, by their fruit.

 

[MissMarlene]

As this is a Catholic forum, Miss, we are certainly free to have the antecedent for “we” be “we Catholics”.

Not when “we” speak for the Protestants.
You also wouldn’t like that…

 

[PRmerger]

Not when “we” speak for the Protestants.
You also wouldn’t like that…

Again, Miss, b2’s “we” was speaking for “Catholics”.

 

[lovemyboys]

Once I visited a church with a female minister. It was the oddest church service I had ever been to. It was obvious that women are NOT supposed to do that job!!! I"m all for women being doctors, firefighters, pilots, whatever, but this is not a job for them. Just like women cannot be fathers, they cannot truly be leaders of a church.