Area parish decides altar-serving is for the boys

[mikew262]

I just thought I’d repost this for the repeat. Alter girls are permitted if there are not enough boys available. For some reason when the Vatican gives such a direction to the USA, it’s taken as a MANDATE to HAVE alter girls. Parents should encourage their boys into such service. I know the day will come when I’ll have to encourage my girls into something besides alter service, as I feel there are enough boys in our parish to fulfill this position. I dread that day, as my dh and I will become the ‘bad guys’ since other girls get to serve. Oh well, that’s parenthood.

Jennifer

Encourage them not to serve if you must, but if they really want to serve as altar servers, let them. Be thankful they have an interest in serving the Church in whatever the capacity. Most kids don’t.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Thanks, but there are plenty of other ways my daughters can serve the Church besides being an alter server.

Jennifer

 

[mikew262]

Thanks, but there are plenty of other ways my daughters can serve the Church besides being an alter server.

Jennifer

True. I just don’t see the harm. The claim that it’s decreasing priest vocations significantly I think is bogus; I believe the vocation problem is a lot more complex than that. My Church has about a 50/50 split, girls and boys.

I think among most kids, it doesn’t matter one way or another unless they are influenced by an outside source. Parents are the ones many times that put thoughts in these little heads. I’m not saying you are, but I think it happens alot. If parents make negative remarks about girl altar servers, you think kids don’t listen? You bet they do.

However, you are right, children can serve the Church in other ways besides being a altar server.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

I would totally understand any parent encouraging their girls into something besides alter service.

 

[StMarkEofE]

I see no problem with this. Now that being said though, didn’t Pope John Paul the Great allow for Female Altar servers?

Another problem, at least in my parish. There are not enough boys to fill the void if the girls were excluded from serving. My 13 year old son is an Altar Server, but only wants to serve once a month. He wants to sit with us during Mass instead of always being at the Altar helping Father. Plus, he said he is tired of serving and is ready to give it up anyway.

There are 3 girls to every 1 boy who wants to be an Altar Server at my parish. Our priest would be hard pressed to impose a Boys Only rule on serving, unless of course he wants to do all the Altar Serving duties along with his priestly duties.

What is wrong with allowing adult male altar servers? This is quite common in our church. We have in addition to young male children a number of high school and college and post college aged men serving.

 

[Jennifer_J]

True. I just don’t see the harm. The claim that it’s decreasing priest vocations significantly I think is bogus; I believe the vocation problem is a lot more complex than that. .

You keep asserting that the decline in vocations has little to do with girl alter servers. Do you have anything to back up the assertion? I was not brought up Catholic so don’t have my childhood to lean on. Do you think that girls alter servers help increase priestly vocations? Do you think that serving at the alter for boys “might” assist boys in thinking of a priestly vocation? Personally, I think we should do anything we can to encourage vocations, I think parent’s have the most to do with this, however.

Thanks,
Jennifer

 

[beckers]

What is wrong with allowing adult male altar servers? This is quite common in our church. We have in addition to young male children a number of high school and college and post college aged men serving.

I was amazed when i went to an Anglican Use Mass. They had all male alter serves and some where adults. It was awesome to see all these men serving the church in such a beautiful way and with such reverance.

I think that if there is no theologic reason then adult males should serve. It would help the young boys really get some good advice about being men of faith. They would in a sense see that their serving is not just some that “boys” do but something that “men” do too. i think it would help their self esteem, bring the position back to some more respect and help with developing strong faithful men.

 

[mikew262]

You keep asserting that the decline in vocations has little to do with girl alter servers. Do you have anything to back up the assertion? I was not brought up Catholic so don’t have my childhood to lean on. Do you think that girls alter servers help increase priestly vocations? Do you think that serving at the alter for boys “might” assist boys in thinking of a priestly vocation? Personally, I think we should do anything we can to encourage vocations, I think parent’s have the most to do with this, however.

Thanks,
Jennifer

Rather do people who say altar girls cause a decline in priest vocations have any proof? Thats where the squawking is coming from. Its up to them to provide proof.

Encouraging vocations? Sure we should, no issue there. Will serving as an altar server cause a boy to think about the priesthood? It might. However, quite possibly a girl serving as an altar girl might be encouraged to enter a convent. Does having girl servers increase priestly vocations? IMO, I don’t think it affects it much 1 way or another.

IMO, its much adoo over nothing.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Wrong. As I stated before and no one can disagree with, there was a dramatic decline in the number of priestly vocations decades before girls were allowed to be altar servers in the early 1990s. There is no factual correlation supporting your statement – it’s your speculation, and that’s all. This argument is used as an excuse to support some people’s desire to turn back the clock to a time when girls/women options were limited to very traditional roles (ie, this priest’s girls’ club teaching them to sew, cook and arrange flowers).

I think it’s also a preemptive strike against the constant onslaught of a fringe group that clamors for women priests. It’s like using a machine gun to kill a fly – these groups are persistent, annoying as he!! and delusional, but they are doomed to failure. Yet, some are willing to alienate good, faithful Catholic girls so that they can feel like they’ve made a statement that only men can be priests (as if anything more than our Pope’s pronouncements needed to be said).

For a thoughful analysis of the priest shortage, consider the article found at: www.nccbussc.org/vocations/articles/challenges.shtml.

I’m not addressing any supposed practical issuel. I really don’t care whether the priest must do everything or not as far as the theology of the matter concerns me. Since priests are to be men then altar boys ought to be boys.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What is wrong with allowing adult male altar servers? This is quite common in our church. We have in addition to young male children a number of high school and college and post college aged men serving.

Same at our Church. I’m an altar boy and am sixty years old.

CDL

 

[aurora77]

I’ve always been ambivelent about girl altar servers, but I’ve been changing my mind recently. I love what this priest is doing in his parish. Both the boys and the girls are being encouraged to participate in parish life; I really would love to see something similar in my parish!

 

[John_Lilburne]

Lepanto asked “Correct me if I’m mistaken, but doesn’t every parish pastor have the right to use only boy altar boys if he so pleases?”

(This is in the closed thread “Priest decides altar-serving is for boys only. Girl protests & calls it “profiling.””. This thread is referred to as the duplicate).

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“107. The liturgical duties that are not proper to the priest or the deacon and are listed above (cf. nos. 100-106) may also be entrusted by a liturgical blessing or a temporary deputation to suitable lay persons chosen by the pastor or rector of the church. [footnote 89: Cf. Pontifical Commission for interpreting legal texts, response to dubium regarding can. 230 § 2: AAS 86 (1994), p. 541.] All should observe the norms established by the Bishop for his diocese regarding the office of those who serve the priest at the altar.”

So it seems to me that if a bishop sets a norm along the lines of “Try to have at least 30% of altar servers who are female” then priest would not be following GIRM 107 if he did not try to do this.

But only men can be instituted acolytes. They are the “ordinary ministers” for this, others are “extraordinary ministers”. As it has in 2002 GIRM:
“100. In the absence of an instituted acolyte, lay ministers may be deputed to serve at the altar and assist the priest and the deacon; …”.

So if, for example, there are 100 instituted acolytes are available then a number should be selected from these men. No females should be considered, regardless of what a bishop might direct as a norm.

 

[John_Lilburne]

Say a priest has a “males only” policy. There are no volunteers, he has 200 days of Mass without an altar server. A female is ready, willing and able to do this but the priest refuses to allow her to be an altar server.

I think she could reasonably complain to the bishop, “The priest has a policy resulting in a failure to follow the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal, for example “142. After this, as the minister presents the cruets, the priest stands at the side of the altar and pours wine and a little water into the chalice, saying quietly, Per huius aquae (By the mystery of this water).” Also “145. After the prayer In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive us) or after the incensation, the priest washes his hands standing at the side of the altar and, as the minister pours the water, says quietly, Lava me, Domine (Lord, wash away my iniquity).” He does not use altar servers so he is not following the directions in the GIRM.”

I think the bishop could reasonably direct the priest to change his selection criteria so that it would be more likely that there were altar servers available at Mass.

 

[Brendan]

Pope John Paul II granted bishops permission for altar girls in 1994

If the Pope gave his permission, he must not have a problem with female servers. .

Sort of, he never allowed girls into the altar boy cadre in the Vatican, so he can’t be too crazy about the idea either.

In addition, the he reiterated through the Congregation for Divine Worship that a celebrant can never be forced by their bishop to use altar girls.

My parish ( of 800 families) has only had boys in the altar server cadre. We have 6 men in the seminary right now, and have had 4 men ordained from our parish in the last 6 years.

The 4 parishes in our Archdiocese that have boys only account for almost a fifth of the vocations. That is 4 parishes out of 420 make up a fifth of the vocations.

And none of these are the largest parishes in the Archdioces either.

So, yes, it does drive vocations.

 

[Brendan]

I think the bishop could reasonably direct the priest to change his selection criteria so that it would be more likely that there were altar servers available at Mass.

Actually he can’t

The Vatican specifically stated that a bishop may not force a priest to use altar girls

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since “it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar” (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid.)

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

 

[Jennifer_J]

Rather do people who say altar girls cause a decline in priest vocations have any proof? Thats where the squawking is coming from. Its up to them to provide proof.

Encouraging vocations? Sure we should, no issue there. Will serving as an altar server cause a boy to think about the priesthood? It might. However, quite possibly a girl serving as an altar girl might be encouraged to enter a convent. Does having girl servers increase priestly vocations? IMO, I don’t think it affects it much 1 way or another.

IMO, its much adoo over nothing.

So, in short, you don’t have an answer? You are also making an assertion and refuse to back it up, I was asking YOU, not the other people…it was a sincere question. I guess I’ll try to research it myself, if I get the time.

Jennifer

 

[dwc]

You keep asserting that the decline in vocations has little to do with girl alter servers. Do you have anything to back up the assertion? I was not brought up Catholic so don’t have my childhood to lean on. Do you think that girls alter servers help increase priestly vocations? Do you think that serving at the alter for boys “might” assist boys in thinking of a priestly vocation? Personally, I think we should do anything we can to encourage vocations,

Jennifer, I’m the one who keeps asserting that the decline in vocations is unrelated to girl altar servers. Read the statistics-- priestly vocations dropped dramatically from the 1940s and 1950s through 1990-- during this period, there were no altar girls. The downward trend in priestly vocations has continued since altar girls were allowed (1992, I believe), but it certainly existed way, way before they were allowed. There were clearly other reasons for the decline in priests. If you read up on this you will see there are many reasons for fewer priests, which in fact correlate to the timing.

You might also notice not one person has given any reason for their belief that altar girls deter future priests, except for some speculation that boys have an inherent disdain for anything girls do; thus, they don’t become altar servers because of girls. My kids’ school is pre-k through 8, 360 students. Altar serving begins in 5th grade. We have 65 boy altar servers and 38 girl servers. The idea that a boy of today would be deterred from something he wants to do just because girls also do it just doesn’t ring true. It sounds like something old men remember from their childhood. Do you usually believe an argument because of someone’s speculation?

In light of this, the argument that altar girls are responsible for the decline in priestly vocations is just ridiculous.

Do I think altar girls increase priestly vocations? No, I think it’s a neutral factor. I think very traditional people who prefer the genders in traditional roles have latched onto this argument because they are 1) paranoid that somehow altar girls on the altar might lead to women priests and/or 2) they just don’t like to see females on the altar.

I agree that we should do everything we can do increase vocations. Alienating girls for a bogus reason is not something that’s going to increase vocations.

I don’t expect to change most people’s minds here. They don’t like women in non-traditional roles and the “altar girls hurt vocations” argument is their story and they’re gonna stick with it, no matter there is absolutely nothing to support it except their opinion.

 

[Caesar]

Excellent news. We need for priests who will step up and take charge like this one did, and bring back traditional practices. Serving is for boys, a stepping-stone to the priesthood.

 

[dwc]

Serving is for boys, a stepping-stone to the priesthood.Today 2:37 pm

Okay, I would agree that historically, boys who become altar servers would be more likely to go on to be priests. If a boy had an interest in serving God as a server, it’s consistent that he would be more receptive to a calling to the priesthood.

Now you need to show how having girls in addition to boys makes it less likely that the boys who serve will go on to be priests.

 

[dwc]

How about all those who are so adamant that girl severs discourage vocations explain the drastic drop in vocations for the decades prior to girl servers. And then explain how whatever caused that decline disappeared when girls became servers, leaving the girl servers responsible for the decline in the following 10 or 15 years.