Area parish decides altar-serving is for the boys

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
“Coodies”.
The concept of “coodies” is a perenial example, and template, for the fact that girls “taint” boy-stuff, if they are allowed to do so.

“Today’s world” is just like any other world which contains human boys and human girls. Human nature has not changed, regardless of the “enlightenment” of the worldly.

As I said in my posting, the burden is on YOU to prove that “coodies” has ceased to exist as a factor in boy-mentality.

Ahhh. The “cooties” defense. Maybe we should stop raising boys who think that girls and women are a taint upon the many man/boy entitlements. The notion that women are tainted has a long history to it and the Church hasn’t helped.

Personally, none of my kids are going to be altar servers.

If you stop raising boys who think that “coodies” exist, then you stop raising BOYS…!

It’s not that “females taint male ‘entitlements’”,… it’s that males and females are different, in nature (human and otherwise), and that a MANDATORIALLY MALE occupation/vocation, the Priesthood, needs to have a precursor “chore” that is as male(juvenile-type)-friendly as possible.

I wish you luck in trying to change basic and essential human nature. Actually, I DON’T wish you luck in that, as human nature was created by God, for God’s reasons, and is not to be changed, except by God Himself.

To think that human nature is essentially changable by human will is a massive violation of the 1st Commandment.

It’s probably best that your kids don’t become alter servers. But I would expect you to pray for vocations for those who are more in-tune with the Church.

 

[Keikiolu]

Actually, it’s not the “cootie” factor that turns boys off. IIt’s more that girls are just so much more mature at this age. They come in and take over.A priest told me that he’s observed that the girls are more competent and the boys are intimidated or edged out.

I’ve noticed it myself with my children. My daughters could run the house, but my sons can’t find a pair of socks without help.

That IS the “coodie” factor…!

Because girls “take over”, it makes the boys feel (physically) “creepy”, which feels to them very much like having a nasty case of invisible bugs biting them all over their bodies.

We all know what thay expression looks like on their faces and the way it makes their bodies wretch…

Call it what you like. It exists. If the goal is more Priests, suppress the “coodies”. Period.

 

[MrS]

If you stop raising boys who think that “coodies” exist, then you stop raising BOYS…!

It’s not that “females taint male ‘entitlements’”,… it’s that males and females are different, in nature (human and otherwise), and that a MANDATORIALLY MALE occupation/vocation, the Priesthood, needs to have a precursor “chore” that is as male(juvenile-type)-friendly as possible.

I wish you luck in trying to change basic and essential human nature. Actually, I DON’T wish you luck in that, as human nature was created by God, for God’s reasons, and is not to be changed, except by God Himself.

To think that human nature is essentially changable by human will is a massive violation of the 1st Commandment.

It’s probably best that your kids don’t become alter servers. But I would expect you to pray for vocations for those who are more in-tune with the Church.

Thanks, I was trying to find a nice way to say the same thing to the poster… good thing you beat me to it, or the infraction points would have come like rain

.

 

[zuzu]

I do not wish to make an impassioned argument for the rights or wrongs of the role of women in the church. I simply wish to let you know that i am a 53 year old woman (and a convert)from the UK, who has had the priviledge to serve at the altar for 3 years now. I am part of a mixed team of 25 servers under the auspices of the Archconfraternity of St.Stephen. I am one of two adult female servers, and am currently being trained for the upcoming position of Parish MC.
Our young boys and girls never have issues over ‘gender’, and the older men (who have been serving since their childhood ie pre VII) constantly encourage us in all we do. I am not a theologian, but i do love Our Lord and His Church. All i know is that when i spent 12 prodigal years in the wilderness, he gently led me home. My FIAT was in response to this - giving myself ton His service. I doubt if it matters to Him, if i am a woman, so why should it matterto anyone else?

 

[Dale_M]

I doubt if it matters to Him, if i am a woman, so why should it matter to anyone else?

Cooties.

 

[zuzu]

Dale,
help me out here.
As a Brit, i have no idea what “Coodies/Cooties” means

Cheers
Suze

 

[Dale_M]

Hi Suze,

“Cooties” are imaginary bugs which afflict U.S. children of the opposite gender. Boys of a certain age will refer to “girl cooties” and girls to “boy cooties”. The presence of such cooties justifies excluding contact with the opposite gender as these can be passed across the gender divide, at least for a short time.

Dale

 

[zuzu]

Hi Dale.
Gotcha! I am now ‘enlightened’,
Here in the UK, i an’t say i’ve ever experienced such a thing. I suppose it’s an American thing.
Aren’t kids horrid sometimes?

Suze

 

[fix]

If you stop raising boys who think that “coodies” exist, then you stop raising BOYS…!

It’s not that “females taint male ‘entitlements’”,… it’s that males and females are different, in nature (human and otherwise), and that a MANDATORIALLY MALE occupation/vocation, the Priesthood, needs to have a precursor “chore” that is as male(juvenile-type)-friendly as possible.

I wish you luck in trying to change basic and essential human nature. Actually, I DON’T wish you luck in that, as human nature was created by God, for God’s reasons, and is not to be changed, except by God Himself.

Thanks for saying this. I find it amusing we think that human nature has in some way “changed” because we are now self appointed enlightened people.

 

[J.J]

Interesting – for another view, stop in at any Eastern Catholic Church for Divine Liturgy; no “Alter Girls” — The Eastern Church has never allowed females on the alter. Never a question, never a problem.

*SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
*J. J. **

 

[Jennifer_J]

adoremus.org/0302Altargirls.html

Here’s an article to look through.

and a link adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html to the Congregation for Divine Worship’s Letter on Altar Servers

Jennifer

 

[Eris]

Hi Suze,

“Cooties” are imaginary bugs which afflict U.S. children of the opposite gender. Boys of a certain age will refer to “girl cooties” and girls to “boy cooties”. The presence of such cooties justifies excluding contact with the opposite gender as these can be passed across the gender divide, at least for a short time.

Dale

But you forget, you can always write “C.P.” on your arm, and therefore have “cootie protection” and not be infected by the dreaded cooties. A handy-dandy invisible forcefield of protection whereby you may walk where angels fear to tread.

To the topic, I don’t understand why people immediately take offense and decide this is a horrible judgement on the unsuitability of girls. I think that the idea of Handmaidens of the Altar (is that what they called it?) is wonderful. My daughter has no desire to be an altar server, but I think she’d be delighted to get involved in something like what they created for the girls. I’m a woman, and I get a little disgusted at the knee-jerk reaction that anything that is boys-only is an affront to girls/women. That seems so…narcissistic…

Eris

 

[scylla]

Anything that excludes boys such as womens clubs are ok why shouldn’t the same be for girls.

The problem is an inferiority complex which is fostered by feminists who think that women are not as good as men unless they do the same as men.
This ignores the dignity of women and insults them into having a knee jerk reaction to being offended or feeling excluded when there is something that men participate in.

Unfortunately most women these days don’t see the dignity that they have in themselves to realize that they wouldn’t be offended by not having altar girls if they realized that women\girls have their own dignity that isn’t dependant upon them being the same as men\boys.

I encourage women to think a little more about this situation and why do they feel excluded when they do not participate in what men do? Now I know some will deny this and just say that it is an insult or denying women a right, but that doesn’t address the real thought behind this.

Do women need to participate in what men do? Why?
(it is not a valid answer to say why not as that doesn’t answer the question)

Without a feminazi enforced inferiority complex women wouldn’t even care.

(Notice the only men who want to be like women are gay ransexual men.)
How many men want to be nuns? Is this a call to service or a selfish desire?

God Bless
Scylla

 

[fix]

Anything that excludes boys such as womens clubs are ok why shouldn’t the same be for girls.

The problem is an inferiority complex which is fostered by feminists who think that women are not as good as men unless they do the same as men.
This ignores the dignity of women and insults them into having a knee jerk reaction to being offended or feeling excluded when there is something that men participate in.

Unfortunately most women these days don’t see the dignity that they have in themselves to realize that they wouldn’t be offended by not having altar girls if they realized that women\girls have their own dignity that isn’t dependant upon them being the same as men\boys.

I encourage women to think a little more about this situation and why do they feel excluded when they do not participate in what men do? Now I know some will deny this and just say that it is an insult or denying women a right, but that doesn’t address the real thought behind this.

Do women need to participate in what men do? Why?
(it is not a valid answer to say why not as that doesn’t answer the question)

Without a feminazi enforced inferiority complex women wouldn’t even care.

(Notice the only men who want to be like women are gay ransexual men.)
How many men want to be nuns? Is this a call to service or a selfish desire?

God Bless
Scylla

I think that is all good stuff. Your really have explained a lot in a few sentences. I think in decades past most women would have found desiring to do so many of these males only things as a authentic step down for their dignity. It is ironic today it is seen as a step up.

 

[seremina]

Cool. I’m happy for that Church. They seem to be sticking to their principles rather well. I personally don’t understand the point of female altar servers when it was always the boys. I don’t mind going to Church here, but the female altar servers never dress respectfully and more than half the time, you can’t tell if they’re boys or girls. @_@ Eeegh… dizzy… what is s/he? Can you see from here?

I’m grateful EWTN hasn’t and will not, accept female altar servers.

Area parish decides altar-serving is for the boys

Although most area Catholic churches follow the modern practice of using altar girls, a Norwalk parish recently reverted to a traditional boys-only policy and started a program for girls teaching them to sew, cook and arrange flowers for the altar.

The Rev. Greg Markey, pastor of St. Mary Church in Norwalk for three years, said he made the change to help deal with the shortage of priests. Girls who were altar servers before the change was announced last year were permitted to continue.

more

 

[KathleenElsie]

I hope and pray that all my grandsons will become alter-boys. I also pray that they will consider a priestly vocation if it is Gods Will. With the boys it can lead them into the priesthood.

As for my granddaughter I would feel wonderful if she became a junior member of the Alter Society. I also pray that she will become a Nun if it is Gods will.

But I feel that there are many other ways for girls to serve God then as an alter-girl. I THINK THAT IT JUST LEADS A YOUNG GIRL INTO THINKING THAT SHE COULD SOMEDAY BE A PRIEST. And in some cases it could cause them to leave the Catholic Church in disappointment.

 

[zuzu]

It would appear that my post has certainly stirred one or two of you to respond.
In my defence, i would like to stress that I was approached by our PP if i would consider becoming a server, and I prayed hard about it before finally accepting.
I have NEVER considered being a female alter server as my ‘right’ as a woman (as some of you seem to think that is why we serve). It is a priviledge - no matter what the gender of the server.

I also take umbridge with whoever said that female servers never dress respectfully at the altar. Myself, and all the other girls in our team never wear flashy jewellery, nail polish etc, and long hair is always tied back. Our cassocks and cottas are always immaculate, and we never wear training shoes.
I have no inclination towards the priesthood or the diaconate, and am personally against the ordination of women.

Please do not judge us all as misguided, radical feminist liberals whose only agenda is to ‘feminize’ the Church.
As for my use of the word ‘enlightened’ - this was in relation to learning all about the word “cooties”, which we do not know about in the UK.

I find it bizzare, to say the least, that the introduction of female altar servers has in some way become partly responsible for the decline in vocations. It would be interesting indeed, to see if vocations improved if female servers were abandoned altogether.
Somehow, i think not.

Peace and blessings to you all
Suze

 

[seremina]

I also take umbridge with whoever said that female servers never dress respectfully at the altar. Myself, and all the other girls in our team never wear flashy jewellery, nail polish etc, and long hair is always tied back. Our cassocks and cottas are always immaculate, and we never wear training shoes.
I have no inclination towards the priesthood or the diaconate, and am personally against the ordination of women.

Suze,

What is “umbridge”? I’m glad your female altar servers dress appropriately, but in my parish, they don’t. They wear shorts, mid-riff reaching shirts, low-neck shirts, tube shirts, boyish clothes, tennis shoes that have no apparent gender to them, makeup, and some of them downright try to adopt boyish hairstyles.

I’m sorry, but I feel grief when it comes to the issue of modesty. Its bad enough women and girls don’t come to Mass dressed appropriately, its horrid that altar serving girls/women don’t dress appropriately and mostly dress like either…umm…you know what…or like such total tomboys you can’t tell what gender the person is, and the female eucharistic ministers give Holy Communion while wearing pants.

St. Pio would never listen to the confessions of women that wore pants. I’m grateful he took such a strong stand on modesty. Would God really be pleased with the way girls/women dress these days? I think Mary warned us about the trend clothes would take for women. I think she said there will come a day when women will dress like men. It makes me shudder and a tear to fall. I pray for the modesty of girls/women all over the world and that God and the angels will be able to look at them.

I don’t know if female altar servers are related to the wrong type of feminism or not, so I have no points to make there.

There. I think I’ve got my point made. I’m struck with curiousity from something you said. Female altar servers are making vocations decrease? How?

 

[Lovemyfaith]

During Lent our parish has 5 Masses every Sunday, 2 every other day, and Stations of the Cross. That is a total of 33 servers needed. If there is a single funeral 4 more are needed, a single wedding, 2 more. That makes 39 servers needed every week. We have about 75 servers, a little over a third are girls. Over half the times needed to serve are during school. Students who do not attend the school obviously can not serve those times. The answer to the question of why do the girls need to participate is- because they are needed. There are boys in the school who choose not to serve. I have a feeling part of the reason is the same reason vocations may be down, there is not encouragement from the home or community. I do not for one second believe Our Holy Father in Rome felt pressured from the woman’s movement to allow female servers. As for female servers dressing inappropriately, it certainly isn’t that way in our parish. The director of the servers would not allow it. That would have to be a question for the director of the servers in the parish where this is occuring. Of course, I would hope that a girl who dresses immodestly might just benefit from being in church and change her ways.
I really belive God will provide if we ask, so please pray for vocations, and the Holy Spirit will guide men to become priests whether girls serve or not.

 

[J.J]

In reply to “Jennifer J.” and letter sent - “www.Adoremus.com” concerning “Alter Girls” and quoting Pope John Paul and Canon Law on subject —
Thanks for the response; however, be aware that Eastern Catholic Churches operate under a different set of Canon Law w/some differences from Latins. Mostly to respect our specific traditions - such as “no females on the Alter”.

All-in-all, it’s encouraging that so many seem to read all these posts, AND reply! Now if only all these people would line-up to attend Divine Liturgy (or Mass) each Sunday and Holy Day not only would The Church be much healthier, but we would be a more Godly people.

*SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

J. J.*