Arguing

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Potato1237

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Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?
 
Potato1237 said:
Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?
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So…you went to a protestant fundamentalist site to learn about Catholic mystics??? :confused:

This site is anti-Catholic…believes dinosaurs and humans coexisted…believes in a literal 6 say creation story…denies the real presence in the Eucharist…etc etc etc.

Try a Catholic site.

newadvent.org/cathen/14621a.htm
 
He even told me that most of the church fathers were actually heretics! Sadly, this is not the first time I have heard that. Is the age of revelation over like he says, and these private revelations supporting the catholic faith are false?

I just don’t know what to do anymore guys. Every time that I start to feel like my faith is true, a thought about sola scriptura or the priest scandal or claims that the church is pagan all pop into my head. I have said this before in an earlier thread, but I’m afraid that the Holy Spirit is convicting me that the church is wrong. I don’t want that to be true, I love this church, I have been Catholic all of my life! I worry about this sometimes.
 
Potato1237 said:
He even told me that most of the church fathers were actually heretics! Sadly, this is not the first time I have heard that. Is the age of revelation over like he says, and these private revelations supporting the catholic faith are false?
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Private revelations are just that…private. No church doctrine is based on them. They may or may not be believed. Why aren’t you checking Catholic sites for this information?

You seem to be a bit weak in your faith and understanding it.
 
Drop all the heretical anti-Catholic reading. It’s just causing you to doubt the faith. Rather avail yourself of some good Catholic apologetic writing.
 
It is easier for us to doubt something than it is for us to have faith in something. This is why there are so many doubters and why so few have real faith. Allow your faith to be greater than your doubt and fear.
 
My advice: don’t read garbage.

As a Christian, it is very important that you develop you sense of discernment - and you should concentrate on growing in faith. Being a member of the Catholic church, you have it easier than some, you can look for the Catholic “stamp of approval” in the literature you read:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprimatur
 
Thanks guys. I’m just so unsure right now. Why is it that there is so much anti Catholic things online? There are whole arrays of articles… And the YouTube videos; my gosh. So many things with titles like " exposing the dark secrets of the Vatican". The worst ones I see (of course I don’t watch them) are videos of supposed former priests and nuns “telling all”. There is an array of videos about how things like apostolic succession is false and demonic. I was steadfast in my faith after a falling out about 2 months ago and now I’m right back in. I’m so unsure and I’m so scared for my family who are Catholic, because what if catholism is wrong? It’s great having a place like this to vent my fears and frustrations. I just get so worried. There is so much I worry about. I can’t even fit it all. My faith was set in the church fathers, but because they have been challenged, I’m right back where I was. I’m terrified of going to hell. I get so angry sometimes because I think about my grandparents, who love Jesus so much, and God would send them to hell for what they believe in? I have asked for guidence so many times and nothing!
 
Potato1237 said:
He even told me that most of the church fathers were actually heretics! Sadly, this is not the first time I have heard that. Is the age of revelation over like he says, and these private revelations supporting the catholic faith are false?

I just don’t know what to do anymore guys. Every time that I start to feel like my faith is true, a thought about sola scriptura or the priest scandal or claims that the church is pagan all pop into my head. I have said this before in an earlier thread, but I’m afraid that the Holy Spirit is convicting me that the church is wrong. I don’t want that to be true, I love this church, I have been Catholic all of my life! I worry about this sometimes.
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No good protestant has a problem with private revelation. If i had a dollar for everytime a Christian told me that God told him something in prayer, id be a wealthy man.

We have different voices in our head telling us things. Sometimes it’s our own voice…

It sounds like you need better friends, not ones who’s sole objective is to shake your faith. Those Church Fathers that he disrespects were much more connected with the early church than he is. And this Catholic church he is always objecting to, compiled the bible and preserved it so that the world could have it.

Once you get strong in your own faith go on the offensive with him. Ask him who wrote the Gospel of Mark and how does he know who wrote it. Sounds like all you have been doing for weeks is scrambling to defend all these half baked objections being thrown at you…
 
Potato1237 said:
Thanks guys. I’m just so unsure right now. Why is it that there is so much anti Catholic things online? There are whole arrays of articles… And the YouTube videos; my gosh. So many things with titles like " exposing the dark secrets of the Vatican". The worst ones I see (of course I don’t watch them) are videos of supposed former priests and nuns “telling all”. There is an array of videos about how things like apostolic succession is false and demonic. I was steadfast in my faith after a falling out about 2 months ago and now I’m right back in. I’m so unsure and I’m so scared for my family who are Catholic, because what if catholism is wrong? It’s great having a place like this to vent my fears and frustrations. I just get so worried. There is so much I worry about. I can’t even fit it all. My faith was set in the church fathers, but because they have been challenged, I’m right back where I was. I’m terrified of going to hell. I get so angry sometimes because I think about my grandparents, who love Jesus so much, and God would send them to hell for what they believe in? I have asked for guidence so many times and nothing!
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When you are the worlds largest branch(more like the root) of Christianity and claiming to be THE church established by the Lord, you are going to have countless objections thrown your way.

They have even found bad things to say about Mother Teresa who has done more good in this world than most who ever lived. Oh, btw, her journey began with mysticism…private revelation from the Lord.
 
The internet unfortunately allows anything, true or false, good or bad, to be put online. Search tools like google aren’t always helpful because they prioritize results according to how many users click each item, so sites get closer to the top of the list according to popularity, not truthfulness. Proceed with caution. Don’t believe everything you read.
 
Potato1237 said:
He even told me that most of the church fathers were actually heretics!
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Ask him by what authority he declares any such thing. He has none. The bible imparts none. There actually is none. Only a Church council, as in **Acts 15 **in his bible, has that authority.

His thoughts have been poisoned by Christian revisionists who are the true “new age.”
 
Thanks guys. And when I say I have asked for guidance I meant asking for guidance from God. Not you guys. You all have been wonderful to me and I can’t thank you enough. I sometimes wish the Lord was as helpful.
 
Potato1237 said:
Thanks guys. And when I say I have asked for guidance I meant asking for guidance from God. Not you guys. You all have been wonderful to me and I can’t thank you enough. I sometimes wish the Lord was as helpful.
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Oh, in that case, we will pray for you!

May the Holy Spirit assist you in your search for truth,
and guide you always toward faith, hope, and love.
 
Potato1237 said:
Thanks guys. And when I say I have asked for guidance I meant asking for guidance from God. Not you guys. You all have been wonderful to me and I can’t thank you enough. I sometimes wish the Lord was as helpful.
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The Lord works through people. Thank the Lord for these answers, not just CAF members. I believe another poster suggested you work on discernment. Evil works through people as well.
 
Potato1237 said:
I’m so unsure and I’m so scared for my family who are Catholic, because what if catholism is wrong?
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As a Lutheran, I would tell you two things:
  1. The Catholic church is wrong in some regards. (But… keep reading)
  2. The Catholic church proclaims the Gospel and administers the Sacraments, and is a valid and good way to come to cross of Christ Jesus.
I’m terrified of going to hell. I get so angry sometimes because I think about my grandparents, who love Jesus so much, and God would send them to hell for what they believe in?
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Good! It’s good to be very scared of going to hell. But it’s better to be enjoy the solace, love, grace and hope that Jesus Christ gives us.

Christ will come to judge the living and the dead - and his judgment it good. He will see our hearts. Pray for your grandparents in the Catholic tradition, but know that Christ is not only perfect Justice, but also perfect Mercy.

I have one recommendation: memorize this verse from Philippians 4:7

And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.
 
benjohnson said:
As a Lutheran, I would tell you two things:
  1. The Catholic church is wrong in some regards. (But… keep reading)
  2. The Catholic church proclaims the Gospel and administers the Sacraments, and is a valid and good way to come to cross of Christ Jesus.
Good! It’s good to be very scared of going to hell. But it’s better to be enjoy the solace, love, grace and hope that Jesus Christ gives us.

Christ will come to judge the living and the dead - and his judgment it good. He will see our hearts. Pray for your grandparents in the Catholic tradition, but know that Christ is not only perfect Justice, but also perfect Mercy.

I have one recommendation: memorize this verse from Philippians 4:7

And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.
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Thank you for your post. I would think that you are wrong in some beliefs too, but that’s ok! As a Lutheran, I know you hold beliefs similar to ours. It’s good to see people like you who are respectful.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
No good protestant has a problem with private revelation. If i had a dollar for everytime a Christian told me that God told him something in prayer, id be a wealthy man.

We have different voices in our head telling us things. Sometimes it’s our own voice…

It sounds like you need better friends, not ones who’s sole objective is to shake your faith. Those Church Fathers that he disrespects were much more connected with the early church than he is. And this Catholic church he is always objecting to, compiled the bible and preserved it so that the world could have it.

Once you get strong in your own faith go on the offensive with him. Ask him who wrote the Gospel of Mark and how does he know who wrote it. Sounds like all you have been doing for weeks is scrambling to defend all these half baked objections being thrown at you…
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Thank you! I certainly will use these arguments.
 
Potato1237 said:
Thank you! I certainly will use these arguments.
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You’re welcome.

Many ways to go on the offensive here. The origin of the canon, sola scriptura and it’s fruit, etc

As someone else mentioned, by what authority is your friend calling the Church fathers heretics? He has no authority and his claim is totally unsubstantiated. Sounds ridiculous.
 
Potato1237 said:
Thank you for your post. I would think that you are wrong in some beliefs too, but that’s ok! As a Lutheran, I know you hold beliefs similar to ours. It’s good to see people like you who are respectful.
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Isn’t it great to have discussions with rational protestants? Ones who dont make ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims and think the Church is evil?
 
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